Tragic Accident

[wheel_nut]

I have just been catching up on the local news and found this! but the important bit is in quotes at the bottom of the page

Two young girls were killed in an accident on the A38 near Burton last night.

A large goods vehicle and two cars were involved in the crash, south of the Clay Mills traffic island at about 5.30pm.

Police believe that one of the vehicles crossed the central reservation.

The girls, both believed to be aged about 12 and from the Burton area, were travelling in the same vehicle.

It is understood that one died at the scene, while the other died at Burton’s Queen’s Hospital.

The driver of the large goods vehicle was arrested and he was last night helping police with their inquiries.

A female driver of one of the vehicles, also from Burton, was in hospital with minor injuries.

Police do not yet know exactly what happened.

I think it is past time they did something to improve the safety on the A38. These accidents happen on a regular basis and yet the authorities do nothing to improve safety. No speed cameras? maybe they will not generate enough money, money first, safety next. No unmarked police cars? too busy processing speeding fines. Not enough lighting? why waste money on lighting when it can be wasted somewhere else. Slip roads too short and unlit? russian roulette in a car! Excess surface water on the road around clay mills and alrewas? Another problem that is not addressed. Condolences to the families of the poor people that died in this accident. When will the authorities wake up and smell the coffee about this dangerous road.
Stretton , Burton

How can readers blame the authrorities for the poor driving standards on our roads? Not enough unmarked police cars because police are too busy processing speedgin fines? What an ignorant attitude, if you dont know what you are talking about then button it. These poor girls have lost their life on a road that is safe, if driving conditions are adhered to. Accidents are not caused by the lack of police, or the lack of attention from authorities. They are caused by people driving in a manner that does not match the condition of the road, and peoples lifestyles are partly to blame because everyone is in a rush these days. There would be no such thing as a dangerous road if there was not dangerous drivers.
Nick, Spondon

The main problem in my opinion is that fact that there are too many lorries on our roads carring loads which would should be carried on the railway. Many lorry drivers work too many long, tiring hours and are not in a fit state to drive safely in my personal opinion, my having driven across Europe and unfamilar with our roads. The government should be working to push for a greater use of railways for haulage use to help make our roads safer to drive on and ease congestion - it would make a hugh difference to road safety, cause less pollution and ensure road surfaces require less maintenance.Condolances to the family - I was in the subsequent traffic queue on the A38 north bound last night and feel lucky not to have been involved only minutes earlier.
David Penman, Willington

My sympathy goes to the families concerned but who is going to deliver David Penmans milk and bread? unless he wants to get it delivered stale at the end of the week. Is he going to get his petrol for his car from the railway station too?

[ohterry]

Wheel Nut:
I have just been catching up on the local news and found this! but the important bit is in quotes at the bottom of the page

Two young girls were killed in an accident on the A38 near Burton last night.

A large goods vehicle and two cars were involved in the crash, south of the Clay Mills traffic island at about 5.30pm.

Police believe that one of the vehicles crossed the central reservation.

The girls, both believed to be aged about 12 and from the Burton area, were travelling in the same vehicle.

It is understood that one died at the scene, while the other died at Burton’s Queen’s Hospital.

The driver of the large goods vehicle was arrested and he was last night helping police with their inquiries.

A female driver of one of the vehicles, also from Burton, was in hospital with minor injuries.

Police do not yet know exactly what happened.

I think it is past time they did something to improve the safety on the A38. These accidents happen on a regular basis and yet the authorities do nothing to improve safety. No speed cameras? maybe they will not generate enough money, money first, safety next. No unmarked police cars? too busy processing speeding fines. Not enough lighting? why waste money on lighting when it can be wasted somewhere else. Slip roads too short and unlit? russian roulette in a car! Excess surface water on the road around clay mills and alrewas? Another problem that is not addressed. Condolences to the families of the poor people that died in this accident. When will the authorities wake up and smell the coffee about this dangerous road.
Stretton , Burton

How can readers blame the authrorities for the poor driving standards on our roads? Not enough unmarked police cars because police are too busy processing speedgin fines? What an ignorant attitude, if you dont know what you are talking about then button it. These poor girls have lost their life on a road that is safe, if driving conditions are adhered to. Accidents are not caused by the lack of police, or the lack of attention from authorities. They are caused by people driving in a manner that does not match the condition of the road, and peoples lifestyles are partly to blame because everyone is in a rush these days. There would be no such thing as a dangerous road if there was not dangerous drivers.
Nick, Spondon

The main problem in my opinion is that fact that there are too many lorries on our roads carring loads which would should be carried on the railway. Many lorry drivers work too many long, tiring hours and are not in a fit state to drive safely in my personal opinion, my having driven across Europe and unfamilar with our roads. The government should be working to push for a greater use of railways for haulage use to help make our roads safer to drive on and ease congestion - it would make a hugh difference to road safety, cause less pollution and ensure road surfaces require less maintenance.Condolances to the family - I was in the subsequent traffic queue on the A38 north bound last night and feel lucky not to have been involved only minutes earlier.
David Penman, Willington

My sympathy goes to the families concerned but who is going to deliver David Penmans milk and bread? unless he wants to get it delivered stale at the end of the week. Is he going to get his petrol for his car from the railway station too?

i echo that. sympathy to families concerned.
but again it seems its all to easy to blame the LORRY or its driver.
without looking into things first.

[paul_b]

it’s amazing that every time the topic of road haulage is discussed by people who only drive cars, theres always some nutter who comes up with “haulage should be done by rail” and they state it, as if they’re experts in the field and yet anyone with half a brain knows it would be totally impracticle not least because we’ve spent the last thirty years ripping up railway lines all over the country:roll:
no knowing what happened in the accident but having daughters myself i feel for the families involved, what a tragic loss.

[muckles]

33,000,000 cars 500,000 HGV’s and that is anything over 3.5 tonnes.

Who’s causing the congestion?

Also if I remember correctly if you doubled rail freight you’d only remove 5% of freight off the road and as the rail network is at full capacity you’s also have to spend billions putting in new lines.
I bet Mr Penman will complain when his tax is put up to raise the money or they want to run the line past his back garden or re-instate the line were he goes for walks with his dog.
I know it doesn’t say he has a back garden or a dog, but I sure he has in a nice leafy suburd or village, but If he can stereotype me, I can stereotype him

[cargo-girl]

I just don’t understand why people always asume that it’s the HGV who has the blame for an accident ? From what I can figure out, listening to other drivers who’s been involved in minor accidents, - it’s usually caused by irrational driving by car drivers !

However, one of the guys are right in his comments about our working time. We all know there are too many tired drivers out there. We all gotta earn a living, but perhaps if the wages were better and the WTD actually worked for protection of drivers, then we wouldn’t be in control of a big lorry for up to 15 hours at a time. Tiredness can’t be measured in driving hours. Tiredness is tiredness and can also occure when you sit waiting in Tesco for 5 hours. When I think about how we have other people’s life in our hands doing our job, I often wonder, how can we be allowed to work such long hours ■■?

■■
Jo

[cm]

Owens_girl:
I just don’t understand why people always asume that it’s the HGV who has the blame for an accident

Your Big, Your Intimidating, (Not you personally I add), the BBC have told everyone your unfit to drive through tiredness, you run illegally, break speed limits, hold up car traffic, rumble through idyllic country villages menacing the locals, etc, etc, need I go on?

[paul_midway]

So we can assume the accident was around the clay mill’s slip road …
The exit slip is a bit dodgy to say the least , especially for a lorry , not enough room to slow down enough for the tight left hander unless you start to brake whilst on the carriageway . The joining slip , i can see no problem’s with .

[cargo-girl]

CM:
Your Big, Your Intimidating, (Not you personally I add),

Ohh…thanks !

■■
Jo

[gardun]

"How can readers blame the authrorities for the poor driving standards on our roads? Not enough unmarked police cars because police are too busy processing speedgin fines? What an ignorant attitude, if you dont know what you are talking about then button it. These poor girls have lost their life on a road that is safe, if driving conditions are adhered to. Accidents are not caused by the lack of police, or the lack of attention from authorities. They are caused by people driving in a manner that does not match the condition of the road, and peoples lifestyles are partly to blame because everyone is in a rush these days. There would be no such thing as a dangerous road if there was not dangerous drivers.
Nick, Spondon "

At least somebody is talking sense. 98% of RTCs are caused by driver error - whoever is to blame in this case made an error; not the road, the authorities or the police - a driver. That said, I doubt the guilty party actually set out to have a crash. Driver training and education is the answer, but it is not a vote winner.

My sympathy and condolences to all involved.

[freebird]

However, one of the guys are right in his comments about our working time. We all know there are too many tired drivers out there. We all gotta earn a living, but perhaps if the wages were better and the WTD actually worked for protection of drivers, then we wouldn’t be in control of a big lorry for up to 15 hours at a time. Tiredness can’t be measured in driving hours. Tiredness is tiredness and can also occure when you sit waiting in Tesco for 5 hours. When I think about how we have other people’s life in our hands doing our job, I often wonder, how can we be allowed to work such long hours ■■?

I may be a bit out with this, but pre tachos and the change in drivers hours then we had an 11 or 12 hour spreadover (off the top of my head), that was it.
When the 9 hour driving rule came in I could not understand how that was safer as it obviously allowed a longer working day and the potential for being much more tired.
Phil

[spardo]

Wheel Nut:
[
Police believe that one of the vehicles crossed the central reservation.

Could it be the truck? Surely they would know if it was, they do normally leave a pretty big gap.

Police do not yet know exactly what happened.

Fair enough, say nowt 'till you’re sure.

But;

The driver of the large goods vehicle was arrested and he was last night helping police with their inquiries

Hang on a minute, , what’s occurring here?
Oh, yes of course.
We don’t know who crossed over, we don’t know what happened, so what shall we do? I know, arrest the bloody truck driver, we could do with a few Brownie points .

I don’t know either, it might be his fault he may have been tired, he may have been legless - but so might the others. Why not find out before arresting people? If he is guilty, he will rightly be in torment - but if he’s not, he will still be in torment, with not even sympathy to keep him company.

Hope you will keep us posted on this one Malc.

Salut., David.

[spardo]

Freebird:
[I may be a bit out with this, but pre tachos and the change in drivers hours then we had an 11 or 12 hour spreadover (off the top of my head), that was it.

Before that it was 14 Phil, with the same driving hours. If I did 2.5 hours to Manchester, waited 7 hours to turn round, then 2.5 hours back, it was a fairly restful day and I even had a couple of hours to play with on the way back if I was drooping a bit or needed a cuppa.
Then they changed the spread. A 7 hour wait now meant that I had to race back without a stop to beat the spread. Which is safer?

IMO they have never thought the hours through with real intelligence. Personally I think it more important to take frequent short breaks rather than 2 long chunks of driving in a restricted speadover. But I also disagree with the emphasis on ‘hours off in 24’. They should concentrate on ‘hours off between shifts’. Far more flexible and safe.

Salut, David.

[Lasurazes]

quote off bbc staffs:teenagers killed in truck crash

Teenagers killed in lorry crash
A lorry driver has been arrested after two teenage girls were killed when the car they were in collided with a lorry.
The crash happened on the A38 near the Clay Mills junction, Burton upon Trent, Staffs, on Friday afternoon.

Police said the lorry collided with a Clio which then crashed through the central reservation, hitting another car travelling the opposite direction.

The two girls who died were from the Burton upon Trent area and have not been named.

do we know for sure the truck collided with the clio and not the opposite way round.

condolences to the familys involved

jon

[paul_b]

fair to assume if they’ve “arrested” the wagon driver they had grounds to do it, possibly not because he caused the crash as they say they are unsure at the moment what exactly happened but if he was over hours or illegal in some other way it would have been automatic, unfortunately as far as the beeb are concerned all lorry drivers are guilty until proved innocent when they’re reporting an incident.

[jessicas_dad]

paul b:
fair to assume if they’ve “arrested” the wagon driver they had grounds to do it, possibly not because he caused the crash as they say they are unsure at the moment what exactly happened but if he was over hours or illegal in some other way it would have been automatic, unfortunately as far as the beeb are concerned all lorry drivers are guilty until proved innocent when they’re reporting an incident.

here here

i agree with you paul.

people moan on here about the length of time it takes the police to open up a road after one these accidents but to be fair they have done a through job measuring the road checking skids and damage in volved then they arrested the driver of the lorry if he wasnt at fault then they would have arrested the car driver. somebody has to be charged so its the one at fault.

[freebird]

Spardo:

Freebird:
[I may be a bit out with this, but pre tachos and the change in drivers hours then we had an 11 or 12 hour spreadover (off the top of my head), that was it.

Before that it was 14 Phil, with the same driving hours. If I did 2.5 hours to Manchester, waited 7 hours to turn round, then 2.5 hours back, it was a fairly restful day and I even had a couple of hours to play with on the way back if I was drooping a bit or needed a cuppa.
Then they changed the spread. A 7 hour wait now meant that I had to race back without a stop to beat the spread. Which is safer?

IMO they have never thought the hours through with real intelligence. Personally I think it more important to take frequent short breaks rather than 2 long chunks of driving in a restricted speadover. But I also disagree with the emphasis on ‘hours off in 24’. They should concentrate on ‘hours off between shifts’. Far more flexible and safe.

Salut, David.

Thanks David, I had only done a year HGV in 1970 and I just found an old BRS drivers leaflet regarding the change that belonged to my dad. 11 hour spreadover (only 10 of them driving), 5.5 hours any type of work then half hour break, 11 hours rest between duties. Hard to make a direct comparison though as it was a less stressful job back then.
I remember in 1986 when that was changed ‘how can this be safer, its a con, looks good to the public but not for the driver’.
Apologies if I have gone off topic here but it has always concerned me that every change has made things worse safety wise.
Jo makes a good point also, and someone else (apologies cant find your name now) mentioned an investigative jouirnalist seeing how we (legaly) work. It would be an eye opener to the public, but knowing how the press regard us I expect we would be vilified yet again.
i will follow this thread with interest Malc to see on what grounds the truck driver was arrested.
My sympathies to the families involved.
Phil

[wheel_nut]

I can only post what is on the net. I found the story on “this is derbyshire. Evening Telegraph” after reading the local paper in the pub.

If I see anything else I will post it, although Paul@ or Jonboy will probably see it before me

[eddie_snax]

jessicas dad:
people moan on here about the length of time it takes the police to open up a road after one these accidents but to be fair they have done a through job measuring the road checking skids and damage in volved then they arrested the driver of the lorry if he wasnt at fault then they would have arrested the car driver. somebody has to be charged so its the one at fault.

May be or may be not, but you wont here when the lorry driver is released from police bail, with no further action to be taken. I do wonder wether these truckers who are often described by the press as arrested, have actualy been detained on a volantary basis to make a statement, or wether they may have had a minor defect (bulb out) or been arrested pending a VOSA insection of the vehicle, standard procedure in such an incident. But such a headline would not fit in either press or broadcast media parametors.

[Lasurazes]

update on the story from the bbc staffs website

A38 crash driver released on bail

jon

[paul_midway]

Some info from the local free rag …

Renault clio travelling S/B near clay mill’s turning , Clio was involved in a collision with a volvo artic ( driver from telford area) , clio crossed the central reservation into the N/B carriageway and collided with a mercedes benz .

Artic driver bailed until march .