I’m going to leave this topic now that Carryfast has arrived because it’s his way or no way
Carryfast:
JeffA:
gazsa401:
I’m a proud socialist and Labour voter (but I won’t be voting for Starmer) I’ve always been a trade union member I also run my own business
There’s no party in this country that represents the working people anymore
That’s why a lot of people are turning to trade unions for a voice and to improve their pay and conditions
I voted for Brexit as the EU is a undemocratic institution both my Grandads fought in WW2 for freedom and democracy which the EU definitely isn’t
The ideology of the Common Market was a good idea but it became more politicalised which to me was a no no
I despise the Conservative Party especially Thatcher who started all this “I’m all right Jack” society
This country has never recovered from her policiesThat was Tony Benn’s problem with the EU - they had power over us but there was no way of voting them out.
Tony Benn and Peter Shore were ultimately Nationalists not Socialists.They just didn’t know it.By definition Socialism means selling out individual national interests and democracy for the interests of the collective.
Especially when that Collective is perceived as being good for Socialism.Which is why Callaghan and Jenkins won out.That ended well
Thats just your definition - the reality of socialism is the NHS and pensions. Benn was the complete opposite in every sense of a nationalist.
Carryfast:
gazsa401:
I’m a proud socialist and Labour voter (but I won’t be voting for Starmer) I’ve always been a trade union member I also run my own business
There’s no party in this country that represents the working people anymore
That’s why a lot of people are turning to trade unions for a voice and to improve their pay and conditions
I voted for Brexit as the EU is a undemocratic institution both my Grandads fought in WW2 for freedom and democracy which the EU definitely isn’t
The ideology of the Common Market was a good idea but it became more politicalised which to me was a no no
I despise the Conservative Party especially Thatcher who started all this “I’m all right Jack” society
This country has never recovered from her policiesExactly what was the difference between Callaghan’s policies v Thatcher’s ?.Thatcher just finished the job that Callaghan started.
Socialism is the ideology of the Collective which by definition means Supra National institutions and centralised government like the EU and USSR.
Where do you start? Deliberately causing mass unemployment in order to attack unions? Spending every last penny of our north sea oil money to pay dole money for 3 million people. Selling off the family silver, throwing away the council housing stock…etc.
tmcassett:
JeffA:
Well after 13 years of tory rule the rivers are chock full of raw excrement, the water companies have extracted 70 billion and given it to shareholders and now they’re doubling bills so you can pay to fix it, pensioners are too scared to turn the gas on, Brexit is costing GDP 4% every year (still, at least it fixed migration eh? Ooops, migration is now double what it was before Brexit), mortgages doubling, schools and hospitals ready to collapse.Phew. I don’t know where we would be without you and your loyal tory vote.
Don’t forget the scandalous sum of £84 a week for being on the dole under this Tory government.
£85.
Still gets it wrong after hearing it 20 times 
JeffA:
Carryfast:
JeffA:
gazsa401:
I’m a proud socialist and Labour voter (but I won’t be voting for Starmer) I’ve always been a trade union member I also run my own business
There’s no party in this country that represents the working people anymore
That’s why a lot of people are turning to trade unions for a voice and to improve their pay and conditions
I voted for Brexit as the EU is a undemocratic institution both my Grandads fought in WW2 for freedom and democracy which the EU definitely isn’t
The ideology of the Common Market was a good idea but it became more politicalised which to me was a no no
I despise the Conservative Party especially Thatcher who started all this “I’m all right Jack” society
This country has never recovered from her policiesThat was Tony Benn’s problem with the EU - they had power over us but there was no way of voting them out.
Tony Benn and Peter Shore were ultimately Nationalists not Socialists.They just didn’t know it.By definition Socialism means selling out individual national interests and democracy for the interests of the collective.
Especially when that Collective is perceived as being good for Socialism.Which is why Callaghan and Jenkins won out.That ended wellThats just your definition - the reality of socialism is the NHS and pensions. Benn was the complete opposite in every sense of a nationalist.
You mean the NHS and state pension scams which the Tories obviously like.
The reality of Socialism was the USSR and ■■■■ Germany it’s in the titles.
JeffA:
Carryfast:
gazsa401:
I’m a proud socialist and Labour voter (but I won’t be voting for Starmer) I’ve always been a trade union member I also run my own business
There’s no party in this country that represents the working people anymore
That’s why a lot of people are turning to trade unions for a voice and to improve their pay and conditions
I voted for Brexit as the EU is a undemocratic institution both my Grandads fought in WW2 for freedom and democracy which the EU definitely isn’t
The ideology of the Common Market was a good idea but it became more politicalised which to me was a no no
I despise the Conservative Party especially Thatcher who started all this “I’m all right Jack” society
This country has never recovered from her policiesExactly what was the difference between Callaghan’s policies v Thatcher’s ?.Thatcher just finished the job that Callaghan started.
Socialism is the ideology of the Collective which by definition means Supra National institutions and centralised government like the EU and USSR.Where do you start? Deliberately causing mass unemployment in order to attack unions? Spending every last penny of our north sea oil money to pay dole money for 3 million people. Selling off the family silver, throwing away the council housing stock…etc.
You’re obviously selectively ‘starting’ from a point after POS Callaghan’s regime.
Union bashing and government imposed weaponised wage restraint and unemployment by exporting British jobs is obviously fine so long as it’s all done under and in the name of the red flag comrade.
As I said remind us when the Group UB40 was formed and why it chose that name.
While Boomtown Rats’ ■■■■■■■■ is a good analogy of Soviet Style living standards and housing policy in the day.
As for the sell off of council housing you mean tax subsidised housing flogged off to Socialist something for nothing tenants.Who called those like my Dad militants for fighting for enough wages to pay the mortgage and those taxes.
These same “Tory Voters” - i.e. the swing voters that actually decide the outcome of what used to be free and fair elections - need to be won over by Keir Starmer in order for him to win the most seats next year, let alone win a full majority.
There’s NO sign whatsoever that he has achieved any such “win over” of we swing voters however.
FFS WE are the ones to be sold-to, not the anti-semites, the minorities, and the actual criminals already here from other countries masqeurading as “Asylum” or “Refugees” when they are strangely all military-age males, with any attempt at looking more closely at this particular crowd - deflected on our large, but essential band of working, taxpaying EEs that have been here for rather more than a handful of years by this point…
If we are to have “Divisions” in society - why can’t we manage to seperate out illegal, criminal immigrants from legal, working, and taxpaying ones?
“North or south of the mediterranean” is the obvious place to draw the line - surely?
Someone tell me any reason at ALL for me a wing voter who’s voted Tory in the past - to SWITCH to Keir Starmer now, when he’s already decided to NOT boot all the anti-semites from the Labour party?
…There’s even a chance that Keir starmer will be resigning himself next year, having LOST net seats at an election that ends up getting callled “earlier than expected”, for instance - during July just before the schools break up…
Higher turnout, reduced majorities nationwide - but the Tories end up hanging on like they did in 1992 when Labour were odds-on 1/5 to beat John Major’s Tories THAT year…
I voted Libdem that year. I didn’t vote Labour. Same reason then as now.
They never managed to win me, and others like me over. Simples.
Winseer.
That’s the first time I heard you swear!
Sploom:
Winseer.
That’s the first time I heard you swear!
I choose Judeo-Christian Right over Non-Practicing anything “plain wrong”.
There is no “Left” - just a defiance of what’s good and right in the world.
Is that a definition of “Evil” that even non-believers in anything - can understand, I wonder?
If one is not against something awful and evil - then one is clearly on the wrong side of History, the wrong side of Humanity, and the wrong side of God - regardless of what of those three one might consider to be the higher priority… ALL of them at the same time, I humbly suggest…
…To make a philosophical point here, I might suggest that to “Stand against Humanity” is surely to render oneself sub-human, which then makes the followers that have taken that path - the whipping boy for any righteous judgement that follows…
Since “Death has no master” - the Non-believers won’t realize that everyone then stands in the crossfire - not just the “other team” they’d thought they’d beaten already by this point.
The missing piece of the puzzle, of course - is that “Tory” or “Labour” or “Liberal” - no longer represent the answer among the peoples of the world, at this level of high population:
We need something entirely NEW in concept as a “Ruling System”.
The only thing that unites Humanity at present - is the fact that we are all mortal, and will all one day die.
Rather than break that mould (especially if you don’t believe it CAN be broken) - an easier uniting thing amoung the population on this planet is surely “I choose life over death” - one would think?
Are the haters prepared to die like fictional Captain Ahab to pursue their political goals?
I doubt it.
Still think they’ll stay in power come the GE.
md1987:
Still think they’ll stay in power come the GE.
Yep.
Won a bet on that in 1992, based on the same analysis. 
"People won’t come out and vote in poor weather to vote against a government that they voted for last time around.
The number of people voting against the “hated Tories” will be the same-old same-old voters that voted against them previously, in other words…
Unlike America however, there’s no need to actually put a “switch every third vote” voting machine in place to rig the result away from the Tories, EPROMs being available for decades to facilitate that.
Labour - cannot win without some kind of rig in place in this country, because there simply are not the number of “haters out there” voting for the opposition as we’ve been led to believe by the mainstream media, although I’ll admit they’ve surpassed themselves lately, making it look like we now have a 52/48 split of “pro palestinian” voters in THIS country now, as they seem to have done…
I predict this 52% apparently “winning turnout” will simply NOT turn out to vote for “Soft” Keir Starmer and his far-left Right-hating crowd as did in 2017 where I also won a bet on Corbyn surging, and giving Theresa May a bloody nose. At the other end of the scale, I predict that very few seats will change hands IF a fourth party isn’t on the ballot papers of over 500 constituency seats in the election that would seem to be set for this time next year, but yet may be called earlier, IF Sunak realizes when he has critical mass the other way beforehand…
The polls - will be deliberately kept wrong, I also believe…
Keir Starmer will keep Labour between 20 seats down and 20 seats net gained, and will resign immediately after that election result.
Bet accordingly. 
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics
Tories on THIS site are currently 12/1 to win a majority next year - the same price Cameron was in 2015, which he duly got.
There’s value in that bet price, providing that one ignores the sentiment.
I bet on outsiders only when betting.
It is amazing how much value one can get betting on incumbents to keep their position, when the incumbent administration “has every advantage” as they do, don’t forget.
12/1 on a basic coin flip - therefore represents real value, as it did on Cameron in 2015 - an election where the 4th party that year (UKIP) surged to 4m votes, stolen away mostly from Labour - and switching BACK to Labour in 2017 for Corbyn’s benefit that year…
There’s a lot more working class Brexiteers in this country - than is generally believed, as well of course!
Haven’t you seen the results of the last, almost half a dozen, by-election results? Massive swings to Labour. The only exception was Uxbridge, but EVERYONE has now forgotten about ULEZ by now, and definitely by the general election.
Completely different situation to 92 or 2017 - no Brexit and the economy hadn’t collapsed like under the tories this time. This will be a tory wipeout - for a generation at least. And it’s as much as you deserve.
Winseer - as opposed to all the convoluted arguments about how the US election was rigged use occams razor. The simplest explanation is that Trump lost, is too much of a weakling to accept losing and so told lies.
That’s the truth isn’t it.
JeffA:
Completely different situation to 92 or 2017 - no Brexit and the economy hadn’t collapsed like under the tories this time. This will be a tory wipeout - for a generation at least. And it’s as much as you deserve.Winseer - as opposed to all the convoluted arguments about how the US election was rigged use occams razor. The simplest explanation is that Trump lost, is too much of a weakling to accept losing and so told lies.
That’s the truth isn’t it.
There’s still no argument here for “Why do former Tory voters - switch to Labour”…
The by-election results? - That gives the new MPs a YEAR to make their mark in their new constituency fiefs.
If they are “Unremarkable” in that time - they will not hold onto them I predict.
If you get the mainstream media to broadcast the lies, and the courts to block over 160,000 pieces of evidence - enough to warrant a full court case - then YES - Okham’s razor applies in that "The simplest explanation - is that the Deep State rigged it on multiple fronts, hence so many pieces of evidence that needed to be court-tested further…
What did the establishment do though? - Charged Trump with what they had already done: Added printed votes, counted votes from dead people, out-of-cachement people, no signatures, duplicate, arrived too late to be counted (remember the election stayed open long enough for Biden to catch up in multiple swing states where Trump was way ahead by midnight on election night…)
If it’s evidence you don’t want to hear though? - Simply LIE.
That’s all the left have got, after all.
What do we get if we vote Keir Starmer in?
A recession - that could yet be avoided.
A call to arms - to go fight and die for a country that is not our ally…
Higher Taxes
Lower Employment
NHS reformed so that anyone on more than minimum wage - now pays effectively for private treatments…
Mainstream parties made MUCH harder to unseat at elections
People’s houses re-possessed
“Unsecured Debts” flipped over so that they now MUST be paid - or Jail time is served.
……
stu675:
Haven’t you seen the results of the last, almost half a dozen, by-election results? Massive swings to Labour. The only exception was Uxbridge, but EVERYONE has now forgotten about ULEZ by now, and definitely by the general election.
What were the turnout figures ?.
The so called ‘swings’ are more like the Conservative vote is staying at home because it’s seen through the uniparty scam. In which Chinese Communism and the WEF have more say in the running of the country than the country’s electorate has.
Winseer:
Are the haters prepared to die like fictional Captain Ahab to pursue their political goals?
No hi vis or safety boots in that picture, I’d say it was bound to end badly.
Carryfast:
stu675:
Haven’t you seen the results of the last, almost half a dozen, by-election results? Massive swings to Labour. The only exception was Uxbridge, but EVERYONE has now forgotten about ULEZ by now, and definitely by the general election.What were the turnout figures ?.
The so called ‘swings’ are more like the Conservative vote is staying at home because it’s seen through the uniparty scam. In which Chinese Communism and the WEF have more say in the running of the country than the country’s electorate has.
More likely because it’s finally seen just how terrible the tories are and the scales have finally fallen from their eyes. It took some time mind you - another 5 years of the tories and this country was finished.
JeffA:
Carryfast:
stu675:
Haven’t you seen the results of the last, almost half a dozen, by-election results? Massive swings to Labour. The only exception was Uxbridge, but EVERYONE has now forgotten about ULEZ by now, and definitely by the general election.What were the turnout figures ?.
The so called ‘swings’ are more like the Conservative vote is staying at home because it’s seen through the uniparty scam. In which Chinese Communism and the WEF have more say in the running of the country than the country’s electorate has.More likely because it’s finally seen just how terrible the tories are and the scales have finally fallen from their eyes. It took some time mind you - another 5 years of the tories and this country was finished.
More Socialist Pravda type propaganda doesn’t actually answer the question regarding those turnout figures.
This country was ‘finished’ by Callaghan’s administration and with Champagne Socialist friends like Blair and Brown to follow the POS, the working class didn’t need any Tory enemies like Heath and Thatcher.
On that note Powell and David Davis’ and IDS would have made/make far better PMs than yet another Labour no hoper in the form of scumbag Starmer.
JeffA:
Carryfast:
stu675:
Haven’t you seen the results of the last, almost half a dozen, by-election results? Massive swings to Labour. The only exception was Uxbridge, but EVERYONE has now forgotten about ULEZ by now, and definitely by the general election.What were the turnout figures ?.
The so called ‘swings’ are more like the Conservative vote is staying at home because it’s .More likely because it’s finally seen just how terrible the tories are and the scales have finally fallen from their eyes. It took some time mind you - another 5 years of the tories and this country was finished.
Carryfast, yes agreed I’ve since heard that too. (Deleted the fantasy tho’
Jeff, no the Conservative party has deserted the Conservative voters. Those voters are looking for a true Conservative party not a more left wing than labour shower of sh…
The next election result - needs very badly to be a “Hung Parliament” - lest we end up having another Civil War, - or worse - WWIII.
The reason we didn’t accept Germany’s offer to “drop out of the War” in 1940 - was that we would have have to have accepted open anti-semitic ■■■■ policy rollouts across Europe, and eventually here in Blighty.
THAT may have been acceptable for characters like Norway’s Quisling - but not for the British Authorities - who had to stop the juggernaut in it’s tracks by declaring War before we’d secured any alllies as such.
THESE days? - We don’t have the Empire at our backs any longer.
We really WILL be alone, if we keep swinging Left in the West against an increasingly emboldened Autocratic EAST.
What do we do though? Shoot down any rising would-be Autocrat in the WEST that would be a way of “Fighting Fire with Fire” at very least.
Talking about spiking your own guns - ahead of a battle!