Your info is very interesting “GF” about ■■■■■■■ development in the UK. Am I right in also recalling that after Sir William Lyons bought Guy Motors his intention was to use the ■■■■■■■ V6 engine as the “standard” fitment in the, then, launch of the Big J. However, his intention was to produce this engine, under licence, in the old Meadows engine factory next door to the Guy plant at Fallings Park. But we all know that this plan quickly went “■■■■ up” because that ■■■■■■■ V6 engine was an unmitigated disaster ! But the ■■■■■■■ straight 6 engines were a different matter and quickly became accepted, more-or less, as reliable alternatives to the shortage of Gardner engines into the premium vehicle manufacturers. The ■■■■■■■ 180/205 and 220 engines were indeed very reliable if not just as economic as the legendary Gardner. But I’ve got to own up here ! it was a barely suppressed delight to “■■■■ all over” Gardner 180’s with the Atki Borderer 205 in those far off years. Happy Days, Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Your info is very interesting “GF” about ■■■■■■■ development in the UK. Am I right in also recalling that after Sir William Lyons bought Guy Motors his intention was to use the ■■■■■■■ V6 engine as the “standard” fitment in the, then, launch of the Big J. However, his intention was to produce this engine, under licence, in the old Meadows engine factory next door to the Guy plant at Fallings Park. But we all know that this plan quickly went “■■■■ up” because that ■■■■■■■ V6 engine was an unmitigated disaster ! But the ■■■■■■■ straight 6 engines were a different matter and quickly became accepted, more-or less, as reliable alternatives to the shortage of Gardner engines into the premium vehicle manufacturers. The ■■■■■■■ 180/205 and 220 engines were indeed very reliable if not just as economic as the legendary Gardner. But I’ve got to own up here ! it was a barely suppressed delight to “■■■■ all over” Gardner 180’s with the Atki Borderer 205 in those far off years. Happy Days, Cheers Bewick.
And then they trundled past you again while you were refuelling the ■■■■■■■■ 
Pete.
Getting the thread back on track ! I recall an episode one day when we had tipped our tin plate load in Liverpool and after “ringing in” to barrow we were told to get onto a certain dock in L/pool ( can’t just recall which one) to load a Crank case for delivery to Vickers at Barrow Yard which was to be craned direct from the ships hold. We duly arrived at said Dock and drove down between the sheds on the right and the ship on the left right along to the end. So we were stood waiting when “lo and behold” a Pickfords Highwayman ( two crew) with 4 in-line low loader pulls up behind. Apparently Pickfords were there to load the Crank Shaft ! Once we saw the size and weight of these two pieces plus a couple of wooden crates my mate Eric says " They could put the Crank on the Octopus and the crank case on our trailer" and the two cases would also fit on , NO the heavy gang was here to load the Crank !! Anyhow, we both get loaded and finally when we were ready for “off” both motors had to reverse back down the dockside ! Let the fun begin!! Well this Pickford’s “Star man” started off reversing with my mate Eric reversing the Octopus AND draw bar trailer a few feet away from the fron’t Scammell ! Whoa ! The Pickford’s artic got “dog knotted” within 20 yds.! and “The Star Man” got out and asked Eric to pull forward so he could straighten up and start again, absolutely ■■■■■■■ hilarious particularly with the Scouse Dockers cheering Pickfords on !! This happened on about three other occasions until this ■■■■■■ got the Scammell out at the end of the dock !! He was as mad as a Barsteward as he had been shown up for the useless ■■■■ he was when an 8 wheeler and turntable trailer could be reversed faster than and artic ! But this wasn’t the end of the fiasco, we tipped in the ship yard next morning and reloaded “tarry coil” in the yard and we were rolling out along the A590 when we met these lazy ■■■■■ off Pickfords on their way into Barrow with the Crank ! Nationalised -v- Private Enterprise no contest ! Cheers Bewick
windrush:
Bewick:
Your info is very interesting “GF” about ■■■■■■■ development in the UK. Am I right in also recalling that after Sir William Lyons bought Guy Motors his intention was to use the ■■■■■■■ V6 engine as the “standard” fitment in the, then, launch of the Big J. However, his intention was to produce this engine, under licence, in the old Meadows engine factory next door to the Guy plant at Fallings Park. But we all know that this plan quickly went “■■■■ up” because that ■■■■■■■ V6 engine was an unmitigated disaster ! But the ■■■■■■■ straight 6 engines were a different matter and quickly became accepted, more-or less, as reliable alternatives to the shortage of Gardner engines into the premium vehicle manufacturers. The ■■■■■■■ 180/205 and 220 engines were indeed very reliable if not just as economic as the legendary Gardner. But I’ve got to own up here ! it was a barely suppressed delight to “■■■■ all over” Gardner 180’s with the Atki Borderer 205 in those far off years. Happy Days, Cheers Bewick.And then they trundled past you again while you were refuelling the ■■■■■■■■
Pete.
Actually Pete in those days the economies worked out fairly well as Derv was not that big of a deal and the ■■■■■■■ was just as reliable as the Gardner, well as far as I was concerned it was ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Your info is very interesting “GF” about ■■■■■■■ development in the UK. Am I right in also recalling that after Sir William Lyons bought Guy Motors his intention was to use the ■■■■■■■ V6 engine as the “standard” fitment in the, then, launch of the Big J. However, his intention was to produce this engine, under licence, in the old Meadows engine factory next door to the Guy plant at Fallings Park. But we all know that this plan quickly went “■■■■ up” because that ■■■■■■■ V6 engine was an unmitigated disaster ! But the ■■■■■■■ straight 6 engines were a different matter and quickly became accepted, more-or less, as reliable alternatives to the shortage of Gardner engines into the premium vehicle manufacturers. The ■■■■■■■ 180/205 and 220 engines were indeed very reliable if not just as economic as the legendary Gardner. But I’ve got to own up here ! it was a barely suppressed delight to “■■■■ all over” Gardner 180’s with the Atki Borderer 205 in those far off years. Happy Days, Cheers Bewick.
Yes the ■■■■■■■ / Chrysler V6 was to have been the standard engine for Guy. The late Dion Houghton, who was Gardner’s Sales Director, told me that in the early 1950s a party of ■■■■■■■ management came over from the States and they were shown around the Patricroft factory. Dion was convinced that when they saw how labour intensive engine production was there it was one of the reasons they set up in the UK.
This is an excellent thread and reminds me of things of long ago.
I was never a trailer mate but I was a drivers mate. Before I even left school I was ‘courting’, as we used to say in Devon, the daughter of the local removal company and so was marked down as free labour. Mostly I would be sent away on distance with the star driver, Steve, who drove a vast, must have been 2000 cube, Luton van on a bonneted Ford 4D chassis. God it was slow, not because of weight but simply with the poor old Ford trying to drag this mass through the air. When I became a trusted mate I was allowed to sit on the right side of the passenger bench seat and flash the headlights to overtaking trucks, that would have been all of them then, to pull back in. My God was I a proud boy. I remember the light switch was around the ignition key in the middle of the dash.
The descriptions here really bring back the memories of the digs. The crowded dormatory was no bother because I had been to boarding school but there are two things that stick in my mind. Firstly the morning coughing nurtured by years of free handout military gaspers and Wills Woodbine and then the drinking glasses containing false teeth. In those days few got to middle age without National Health Choppers.
Like Dennis I’d be up first and have the truck checked over, warmed up and ready to go before the great man finished his second cup of tea. If your were with a real driver you learnt things that you never forgot. I was lucky. Thanks Steve
After 9 months on the Commando’s I was put on an Albion van with a Luton head that ran out of the main furniture warehouse at 95 Morrison Street, which coincidently was the Head Office of the S.C.W.S.
The vans from there carried a mixture of furniture and hardware goods to Societies as far away as Campbeltown, Oban, Fort William, Dumfries and Stranrear as well as bulk loads to Edinburgh and Dundee warehouses.
I learned new skills that even today can get awkward furniture in and out of houses that seem’s impossible to do.
On overnights we often slept in the back of the van, we had mattresses and pillows so it seemed a good idea to run quality control checks on them before delivery. Well, we thought it did, you didn’t think it was to save money, did you?
In any case, in places like Cambeltown, Oban and Fort William, getting digs in the summer was impossible; all the fine citizens who were happy to take transport workers and their money in the winter dumped us for better money from tourists.
As with most jobs in those days, you just got on with it and no-one chased you up or asked where you had been. As long as the work was done, nobody cared.
Also working from that warehouse were BMC 4 artic’s with Scammell couplings.
I ended up back in the Commando’s after 6 months with John Conway as my driver. He had an Albion flat and taught me to drive it. I started off sitting on the engine cover on the Knightswood Boulevard where John made me steer the lorry, once I caught on to that it was over to the driver’s seat round the warehouses and docks.
After 6 months I fell off my bike and was off work, returning I ended up back on the vans again, Johns Albion had been sold so that was that anyway.
The next job I did on the vans was a wee while running out of the Cabinet Works at Shieldhall where new furniture was made, deliveries here were mainly Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee warehouses.
I also did a short spell from the furniture warehouse at Tobago Street in the Calton. The vans here delivered furniture manufactured elsewhere than the Co-op, such as Sakol, Macgregor’s and Lebus.
A source of money here was that next door to the warehouse was Tobago Street Police Station, when they wanted boys for an Identity Parade, we got paid for this although I can’t remember how much now.
In the summer months various Societies held Furniture Shows in their Co-operative Halls, Cambuslang and New ■■■■■■■ were two I attended. Vans from the two warehouses and the Cabinet Factory gathered there to fill the halls, returning days later to remove it all again. Many hands make light work allowing plenty of F.A.T. (Think of a word beginning with ‘F’, not France, but close, with ‘ing’ at the end! Then add ‘About Time’.)
This is similar to the Old Albion van mentioned above, until Plating and Testing killed them off, the Co-op had a number of these old vehicles. One of the quirks of being them old was that they only had one headlight on dip, apparently that was all that was legally required.
On the Tobago Street and Shieldhall Cabinet jobs this is the type of Albion in use, Cairn or Claymore, can’t remember which. 35mph flat out, if the air filter was removed they would 40, trailing a cloud of black smoke!
Both these images have been floating about the internet for years so apologies to whomsoever the copyright belongs.
The Removals section operated this Commer two stroke van, body built by the S.C.W.S. at it’s Eastfield, Rutherglen, Coachworks. The van was one of 4 removal vans, 2 Bedford S Series and a Dodge LAD short cab, all with B Licences. One of these vans would go south every week ending up at Plesseys at Basildon to lift TV’s and Radio’s for the Co-op’s Defiant brand. Matt Newlands was the driver of this van and the photo is courtesy of his son Charlie, of Renfrew who gave me the photo for a magazine article.
This Albion is similar to the one driven by John Conway and which he taught me to drive. There was no bodywork attached just a flat platform. Photo copyright of the Albion Archive at Biggar courtesy of Brian Craigie who gave me permission to use it for a magazine article.
Alex
That is an excellent read of your recollections at SCWS Alex! well done, Cheers Dennis. PS and OH! how come ye niver got “your collar felt” at the many ID parades you attended ? 
Well Dennis, I don’t know! Maybe I led a charmed life or maybe I was a fast runner or maybe…, well, we won’t go into that!
Glad you are enjoying the stories, more to come next week when I find some more photos.
Hope this finds you well. (In the States they say ‘Old Truckers never die, they just lose their gears!’, personally, I think my clutch is slipping!)
Alex
A regular job I recall we did was on a Thursday morning ( early start) fully freighted with 25 /27 ton of Cellophane ex BCL Barrow to mainly British Waterways at Brentford or sometimes The Royal Docks. Anyway we would usually pull onto The Hollies at Cannock for breakfast about 8 am or there about ! The lorry park was usually crawling with Suttons 4 wheeler Atkis and trailers which many were loaded with Triplex glass for Luton and Dagenham IIRC. Well I had to sit with their Mates as Eric would sit with the Sutton drivers, there was strict demarcation in those days I was there one morning when 3 or 4 of Suttons mates were sat around the " grab a present" bandit and they had levered open the top panel and could manipulate the Grab ! Well they cleaned all the ■■■■ out and left the crap, they offered me a couple of packets but as I didn’t smoke and they weren’t Players which Eric smoked I declined ! Apparently, when the Hollies management found out later what had happened they went ■■■■■■■ mad and threatened to ban Suttons ! Next time we went in that bandit had been removed ! So every time breakfast was over and Suttons rolled off the Hollies and headed South on the A5 we would join them, well all those Atki 150 waggon and trailers did was get under our feet in the Octopus even though we probably had twice the payload on board so once we got rolling on some of those dual sections of the A5 we could sail past them ! Once we were tipped we were usually sent to Bowater Scott at Northfleet to load parent reels of tissue for the new Mill that was being built at Barrow in the later 60’s and prior to the Barrow mill starting to manufacture tissue they converted the parent reels from Northfleet into tissue product. We were always in demand at Nothfleet because we had 42 ft of deck space so we could get more reels on that the ,then, standard 24/28/33 ft artic trailers. Athersmiths waggon and trailers also did the same job, only we were quicker than those idle gits at Athersmiths 
On our way back home I recall that we always used the Woolwich ferry which crossed the Thames and joined up the North and South circular roads. Happy days Cheers Bewick.
© Alex Saville December 2017
I’m surprised there’s not more stories on this Topic, Dennis and I can’t be the only one’s with stories to tell!
Some more on the Co-op.
Another fleet of vans operated out of the Drapery Warehouse, also on Morrison St, located on the other side of the Grocery Warehouse from the Furniture.
They covered the whole of Scotland from there. One van used to work his way up to Inverness via Aberdeen & Elgin. On arrival at Inverness the van would be empty. A load would be waiting at the local railway yard in a BR wooden container, transferred into the Wholesale van by the driver and his boy.
Drivers on this job were either older or on light duties as it was no hardship loading and unloading small drapery parcels.
One van I was never on was the coffin van. This was a low height Albion Claymore underslung vehicle; the factory in Middlesex St had low access that required this.
The S.C.W.S. Transport had a base at Links Place, Leith. (I daren’t say that Leith is in Edinburgh, no matter what the P.C. bunch say’s!) Leith Folk are touchy about that!
They supplied vans to the main warehouse at George St in the heart of the Capital. There was also another store used solely, like Tobago St, for furniture. This was at Hamilton Place, Stockbridge, down behind a St Cuthbert’s Co-op Society store.
Dundee also had two warehouses, one at the Seagate, the other at the Wellgate. Again, vans from Morrison St & Shieldhall were daily visitors.
Dundee’s vans were the furthest travelled as they went up as far as Wick & Thurso and all the ‘Airts ‘n Pairts’ in between.
There’s a story that one of the Dundee drivers agreed to take a horse south from Thurso in his van for a ‘Consideration’, his problems started when they got to the horses destination and discovered it had died! Never found out what happened about that!
I ended up back on the ‘Commando’s with Norie ■■■■■■■ on a Commer two stroke flat. Not for long though as I ended up in hospital for six weeks with an abscess on the bone of my left leg, I was off work for months.
Alex
Hiya Alex well done again mate re-counting your days at S.C.W.S. and I will stick another instalment on, promise ! been a bit busy at the moment. Cheers Dennis.
Hello Alex and Dennis. Merry christmas and a Happy and unaventful New Year and thanks for keeping this “wee boy” entertained.
It is unfortunate that the trailer-mates position is side-lined the way it seems. However - I see us as being the eyes, ears , and companions (In the best possible sense ) of the driver. I can honestly say that the cab fraternity changed your way of thinking. For the first time of your life you had to listen and obey the instructions of a God. I was in luck but maybe not - you could also meet the worst - If anybody is interested I can tell you stories. Jim
I agree you could meet some drivers who treated you badly, I’ve had one or two them myself. They were in a tiny minority at the Co-op, most were decent guys.
One driver wouldn’t call me by my name, he used to shout ‘Boy’ if he wanted to attract my attention. I, for my part, just ignored him. Luckily I was only with him for a few days. One wouldn’t have anything to do with you if you weren’t the same religion as he was, I ignored him as well.
So lets hear your story, jmc jnr, same for the rest of the guys.
Alex
ODD LOADS ! One load I vividly recall was ex BCL Bridgewater to Immingham Dock. We tipped in The Abbey one Monday morning and when Eric rung into Barrow ( as we always did) to our surprise we were told to get over to BCL at Bridgewater “smartish like” to load for Immingham Dock ! It was the first time we had been over the newly opened Severn Bridge( and the last!) Anyhow we rolled into BCL early afternoon to be told we were loading 28 ton, yes 28ton, for Immingham, I kid you not as this load should have gone onto two artics but they were busy and Brady’s handled all the BCL traffic from both Barrow and Bridgewater and Jack Brady never let a Customer down ! ( and his philosophy rubbed off on me in later years !) . Anyway we get loaded in Bridgewater and parked up at the regular digs that Brady Drivers used, Woods at North Petherton. So we kicked off handy next morning and it was a right grueller cutting across country in those days just on the old A roads ! We got to Immingham later that afternoon and just managed to get tipped in the shed accompanied by snide comments from the Checker along the lines of “You ■■■■■■■ want locking up putting that weight on!” We digged in Grimsby that night and had a few pints in a drinker frequented by Deep sea Fishermen and IIRC it was when the Icelandic cod wars were on and we heard some “hairy tales” from some of the lads ! ■■■■ that for a game of cowboys we thought at the time ! But I’ve got to say that trip over to Immingham was a real “grind” especially loaded to the “gunnels” the 680 Power Plus certainly earned it’s corn that day ! Cheers Bewick.
Bet you found that Lincolnshire isn’t so flat as they say Dennis ! Did you come up through Lincoln ? Lindum hill would warm your old 680 up a bit . Regards Geoff
dosser:
Bet you found that Lincolnshire isn’t so flat as they say Dennis ! Did you come up through Lincoln ? Lindum hill would warm your old 680 up a bit . Regards Geoff
Probably took it in crawler. Our old 1934 Austin Seven made it up there fully laden with the family on the way to Skeggy back in '57. I remember it as if it were yesterday! I was perched on all the pillows and blankets in the front passenger seat and as we climbed out of the fog Lincoln cathedral in all its glory was bathed in glorious sunshine. Robert
One of the nicest views in Lincolnshire Robert , think it was the bends at the top of the hill that caused most problems Warner’s garage at the top did a lot of recovery work there . Geoff
dosser:
Bet you found that Lincolnshire isn’t so flat as they say Dennis ! Did you come up through Lincoln ? Lindum hill would warm your old 680 up a bit . Regards Geoff
Hiya Geoff, That job we did was a “one off” and it was over 50 years ago ! But it stuck in my mind because it was a real cross country hike ! and hard work for both Eric and the Octopus! I was just in the “other seat” but it was an endless grind ! Glad it wasn’t a regular job phew ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
dosser:
Bet you found that Lincolnshire isn’t so flat as they say Dennis ! Did you come up through Lincoln ? Lindum hill would warm your old 680 up a bit . Regards GeoffHiya Geoff, That job we did was a “one off” and it was over 50 years ago !
It’s alright for you , dozing in the lad’s seat whiling the time away while eric grafted . some of us were out there behind the wheel of a Foden standing up on the corners with the Armstrong steering and growing old before our time . you youngsters had it cushy .