[zb]
anorak:
In addition to the F10/141 “sector”, there are hundreds of 1990s vehicles on the preservation scene already- 143s and later F12s and 16s. The convenience of being able to mix with busy present-day traffic must play a part. I wonder how old you can go, before it becomes a nuisance using the motorway, for example? Those 1958 Scania Vabis LV75s seemed well up to the job- 165bhp would power a rigid with a living van on the back, without getting in the way of modern wagons. An early 1960s Leyland, with a P680 in it, would have no difficulty either- I would guess.
I had a driver customer a few years ago and his father a driver before him. He had ridden with Dad on Atkinsons as a kid. He, at the time he was my customer, fancied the idea of a classic to drive too events. I suggested a 60s/70s Atkinson. No thanks was the reply. A nice 80s/90s Scania.
The other point is I think quite a lot of sub 50 and even more sub 40 folk are not inclined to tinker/fiddle about with old machinery/equipment what ever it might be. A friend who runs a boat yard has noticed that in his world.
[zb]
anorak:
In addition to the F10/141 “sector”, there are hundreds of 1990s vehicles on the preservation scene already- 143s and later F12s and 16s. The convenience of being able to mix with busy present-day traffic must play a part. I wonder how old you can go, before it becomes a nuisance using the motorway, for example? Those 1958 Scania Vabis LV75s seemed well up to the job- 165bhp would power a rigid with a living van on the back, without getting in the way of modern wagons. An early 1960s Leyland, with a P680 in it, would have no difficulty either- I would guess.
Power available is less significant than geared maximum road speed. An attainable 47-50 mph would seem to be the minimum for motorway travel, but that depends upon time of day and traffic volumes as well as the type of vehicle. Vehicles which can only just achieve that speed will be at peak revs so returning to the early days of the M1 and M6 when engines of the era protested explosively at the sustained demand. There is great interest among the bus owners on various fora regarding high speed diffs for their vehicle - until it comes to collectively putting their hands in their pockets ; then it reverts to the usual story when looking for a mechanical item:- finding another one, preferably a gift from a like-minded ‘enthusiast’.
Having said that the problem is more with drivers than the vehicles themselves. Traffic manages to recognise that a mobile crane in the distance is probably only doing about 40 mph, the same should apply to an easily seen double decker bus but so many are simply asleep at the wheel. There is an issue regarding the not so easily seen Lorry in the distance if there is surrounding traffic. The other side of the coin is the preserved vehicle driver himself. A few years ago someone took a WW2 era Scammel Pioneer (around 20 mph top speed) towing a wooden four wheel caravan onto the M4, at I think 3 am, with the predictable result that he nearly died in the collision which destroyed his pride and joy. I have given up banging my head trying to convince the owners of vehicles I maintain to limit the length of motorway travel to the absolute minimum. I purchased a " Slow Moving" marker board to hang in the upstairs rear window of a bus but the only time it has ever been used was when I put it there myself. The objection I hear to using normal roads is usually that: “it is already a long day we don’t want to be so late home”. The real reason is that off the motorway network they are unable to navigate.
Off the motorway the problem is more with cars than commercial vehicles when the red mist over being held up for a short while overcomes so many. The sad fact is that however many times a slow moving vehicle pulls over, which cannot be more than once every 10 - 15 minutes if one is ever to arrive, the sheer act of pulling back on tends to anger the driver half a mile in the distance behind.
[zb]
anorak:
In addition to the F10/141 “sector”, there are hundreds of 1990s vehicles on the preservation scene already- 143s and later F12s and 16s. The convenience of being able to mix with busy present-day traffic must play a part. I wonder how old you can go, before it becomes a nuisance using the motorway, for example? Those 1958 Scania Vabis LV75s seemed well up to the job- 165bhp would power a rigid with a living van on the back, without getting in the way of modern wagons. An early 1960s Leyland, with a P680 in it, would have no difficulty either- I would guess.
Power available is less significant than geared maximum road speed. An attainable 47-50 mph would seem to be the minimum for motorway travel, but that depends upon time of day and traffic volumes as well as the type of vehicle. Vehicles which can only just achieve that speed will be at peak revs so returning to the early days of the M1 and M6 when engines of the era protested explosively at the sustained demand. There is great interest among the bus owners on various fora regarding high speed diffs for their vehicle - until it comes to collectively putting their hands in their pockets ; then it reverts to the usual story when looking for a mechanical item:- finding another one, preferably a gift from a like-minded ‘enthusiast’.
Having said that the problem is more with drivers than the vehicles themselves. Traffic manages to recognise that a mobile crane in the distance is probably only doing about 40 mph, the same should apply to an easily seen double decker bus but so many are simply asleep at the wheel. There is an issue regarding the not so easily seen Lorry in the distance if there is surrounding traffic. The other side of the coin is the preserved vehicle driver himself. A few years ago someone took a WW2 era Scammel Pioneer (around 20 mph top speed) towing a wooden four wheel caravan onto the M4, at I think 3 am, with the predictable result that he nearly died in the collision which destroyed his pride and joy. I have given up banging my head trying to convince the owners of vehicles I maintain to limit the length of motorway travel to the absolute minimum. I purchased a " Slow Moving" marker board to hang in the upstairs rear window of a bus but the only time it has ever been used was when I put it there myself. The objection I hear to using normal roads is usually that: “it is already a long day we don’t want to be so late home”. The real reason is that off the motorway network they are unable to navigate.
Off the motorway the problem is more with cars than commercial vehicles when the red mist over being held up for a short while overcomes so many. The sad fact is that however many times a slow moving vehicle pulls over, which cannot be more than once every 10 - 15 minutes if one is ever to arrive, the sheer act of pulling back on tends to anger the driver half a mile in the distance behind.
Similar problems to ag industry when combining slow and fast traffic. I have known two people knocked out the rear window on tractors hit from behind by trucks. One died and the other clung on for dear life on the trailer drawbar.
oiltreader:
Not an LV but an 1963 LBS with living van.
Oily
That was a smart looking cab. Was it Scania own or was it shared with other European makers?
Was Scania Vabis’ own cab, sourced exclusively from BeGe, which became a wholly-owned subsidiary of S-V in 1966. IIRC
I observed a restored LB76 at a show a few years ago- the rot was already popping through the filler, and spoiling the very well-polished paintwork. I suspect that many “restorations” are bodge jobs, which only ensure that the vehicles deteriorate more irrevocably. Anyone who has tried to do sheet metalwork repairs to vehicles which have previously been welded will know what I mean.
A local lad who has a couple of restored lorries once told me that he visited the Great Dorset Steam Fair and viewed the commercials. Some hadn’t even got engines in them, but they looked good on display!
I imagine that many of the commercial vehicles etc restored back in the fifties/sixties etc that I used to see on the London - Brighton run are still around but probably wearing different liveries, they would be either passed through the family or sold to other enthusiasts. Of course some will have gone to overseas collectors. Many that local lads have restored seem to still be around, Rob (1970 Commer) and Punchy Dan still have theirs and the ERF in Waters livery that our club secretary owned for over twenty years (ex Knight Brothers) has gone to a chap in Evesham. Nigel Wilde has rallied his LAD Dodge for many years but it has worn different liveries in his ownership, likewise his K series Dodge unit as that was previously in B.J Waters colours but has now been repainted in H. Pheaseys colours because his late father Graham drove for them. Smiths Haulage of Matlock have several old vehicles, some nice early Leylands, but they haven’t seen the light of day for many years now alas.
cav551:
Power available is less significant than geared maximum road speed. An attainable 47-50 mph would seem to be the minimum for motorway travel, but that depends upon time of day and traffic volumes as well as the type of vehicle. Vehicles which can only just achieve that speed will be at peak revs so returning to the early days of the M1 and M6 when engines of the era protested explosively at the sustained demand. There is great interest among the bus owners on various fora regarding high speed diffs for their vehicle - until it comes to collectively putting their hands in their pockets ; then it reverts to the usual story when looking for a mechanical item:- finding another one, preferably a gift from a like-minded ‘enthusiast’.
Having said that the problem is more with drivers than the vehicles themselves. Traffic manages to recognise that a mobile crane in the distance is probably only doing about 40 mph, the same should apply to an easily seen double decker bus but so many are simply asleep at the wheel. There is an issue regarding the not so easily seen Lorry in the distance if there is surrounding traffic. The other side of the coin is the preserved vehicle driver himself. A few years ago someone took a WW2 era Scammel Pioneer (around 20 mph top speed) towing a wooden four wheel caravan onto the M4, at I think 3 am, with the predictable result that he nearly died in the collision which destroyed his pride and joy. I have given up banging my head trying to convince the owners of vehicles I maintain to limit the length of motorway travel to the absolute minimum. I purchased a " Slow Moving" marker board to hang in the upstairs rear window of a bus but the only time it has ever been used was when I put it there myself. The objection I hear to using normal roads is usually that: “it is already a long day we don’t want to be so late home”. The real reason is that off the motorway network they are unable to navigate.
Off the motorway the problem is more with cars than commercial vehicles when the red mist over being held up for a short while overcomes so many. The sad fact is that however many times a slow moving vehicle pulls over, which cannot be more than once every 10 - 15 minutes if one is ever to arrive, the sheer act of pulling back on tends to anger the driver half a mile in the distance behind.
The logistics of such journeys need to take account of those risks.
Just like in the day anywhere of any significant distance can’t be done in one hit regardless.
Also making as much use of mid summer early mornings like 3 am - 7 am and evenings 7pm - 11.00 pm would reduce the risks.
But it’s also obvious that many types shouldn’t be using motorways etc and should be limited to single carriage type roads of their youth and/or design.
As the Scammell example.That was as stupid as driving a steam traction engine or a tractor on a motorway would be.
A local lad who has a couple of restored lorries once told me that he visited the Great Dorset Steam Fair and viewed the commercials. Some hadn’t even got engines in them, but they looked good on display!
I imagine that many of the commercial vehicles etc restored back in the fifties/sixties etc that I used to see on the London - Brighton run are still around but probably wearing different liveries, they would be either passed through the family or sold to other enthusiasts. Of course some will have gone to overseas collectors. Many that local lads have restored seem to still be around, Rob (1970 Commer) and Punchy Dan still have theirs and the ERF in Waters livery that our club secretary owned for over twenty years (ex Knight Brothers) has gone to a chap in Evesham. Nigel Wilde has rallied his LAD Dodge for many years but it has worn different liveries in his ownership, likewise his K series Dodge unit as that was previously in B.J Waters colours but has now been repainted in H. Pheaseys colours because his late father Graham drove for them. Smiths Haulage of Matlock have several old vehicles, some nice early Leylands, but they haven’t seen the light of day for many years now alas.
Pete.
Your right there Pete as Punchy Dan’l’s restored Foden is still having to earn it’s keep every day ( well nearly every day! ) There should be a cruelty law against forcing old motors to continue having to graft ! Cheers Dennis.
“Steering, in view of the weight of the vehicle, is surprisingly light”. I believe Bernard.
albion1938:
From an insider – fashions change, so do aspirations…Now it’s the Volvo F10s and the like that “I used to drive” or “dad used to have”.
Times change.
Bernard
I hope those machines from the earlier age do not succumb to the hot knife, just because the present generation of enthusiasts prefer “modern” oldies. In another couple of decades, they may be considered more attractive than the F10 and similar vehicles.
The 8 wheeler Albion gets quite a good write up. Fuel consumption does not that bad either for a pre-war vehicle. I did not realise that Albion had tier own engines.
Albion were superb engineers, made good diesels, and their 8 wheelers were well liked, being powerful, economical and quite light to drive compared with some of the competition. But after Leyland took them over in 1951, their development was stopped and Leyland engines and other components gradually became the norm in Albions, and lorry models were dropped or wound down as they were competing with parent Leyland. At the time Leyland took over Albion were developing a modular underfloor engine where standard modules could be bolted together to form an engine of anything from 2-12 cylinders, that soon disappeared, never went further than prototype. The biggest Albion engine survived to become the Leyland 900, used in Scammell Contractors, big export Leylands and railcars. Albion rear axles were excellent, used across the Leyland range, survived into the DAF era, what’s left of the company now US owned still supply axles to many manufacturers.
Bernard
Was it the Albion axle that made the load whine you could hear from Leylands?
Bewick:
Your right there Pete as Punchy Dan’l’s restored Foden is still having to earn it’s keep every day ( well nearly every day! ) There should be a cruelty law against forcing old motors to continue having to graft ! Cheers Dennis.
Ah but Dan’s Foden is nearly new Dennis, barely run in yet at twenty years of age. There are older trucks than his still earning a living around here, mostly Foden’s of course. Treated right that will see him nicely through to retirement but if anything should happen to to it he can always fetch the ERF and Dennis out of mothballs.
Bewick:
Your right there Pete as Punchy Dan’l’s restored Foden is still having to earn it’s keep every day ( well nearly every day! ) There should be a cruelty law against forcing old motors to continue having to graft ! Cheers Dennis.
Ah but Dan’s Foden is nearly new Dennis, barely run in yet at twenty years of age. There are older trucks than his still earning a living around here, mostly Foden’s of course. Treated right that will see him nicely through to retirement but if anything should happen to to it he can always fetch the ERF and Dennis out of mothballs.
I reckon that if I had a word with my Great Granddad I could have got Dan’l a start as the “can Lad” and comparing shots of both Fodens ( Thos. Bewick’s and D. Punchard’s) they are very similar so no probs about having to have any inducton bolloxs eh!
This is my great uncle Bob Smiles when he worked at the glass works at Lemington before going on to drive for his older Brother Issac Smiles, Regards Larry.
Bewick:
I reckon that if I had a word with my Great Granddad I could have got Dan’l a start as the “can Lad” and comparing shots of both Fodens ( Thos. Bewick’s and D. Punchard’s) they are very similar so no probs about having to have any inducton bolloxs eh!
If he heard you dissing Fodens today he’d have given you a clip round the ear lad.
Ironically my Grandad seems to be similar era he drove a Foden steamer and horses before that hauling coal for the local gas works.He was well into his 40’s when my Dad was his last born in the 1920’s.
Morning Anorak,
YDH 826H, it is YDJ 828H and seems to be alive and well, credit for pic is Ronnie Cameron taken in 2011. It caught my eye as the reg you put was a Walsall number which is local to me! Cheer’s Pete
Bewick:
Your right there Pete as Punchy Dan’l’s restored Foden is still having to earn it’s keep every day ( well nearly every day! ) There should be a cruelty law against forcing old motors to continue having to graft ! Cheers Dennis.
Ah but Dan’s Foden is nearly new Dennis, barely run in yet at twenty years of age. There are older trucks than his still earning a living around here, mostly Foden’s of course. Treated right that will see him nicely through to retirement but if anything should happen to to it he can always fetch the ERF and Dennis out of mothballs.
Pete.
0
I reckon that if I had a word with my Great Granddad I could have got Dan’l a start as the “can Lad” and comparing shots of both Fodens ( Thos. Bewick’s and D. Punchard’s) they are very similar so no probs about having to have any inducton bolloxs eh!
This week has seen the foden down in South Wales Monday ,local Tuesday ,Scotland wed & Thursday from east to west and local Friday ,Huddersfield today
) There should be a cruelty law against forcing old motors to continue having to graft ! 
