The Infamous Driver Shortage

I came across this article at work. It speaks of the much talked about “driver shortage”, so it does believe that there actually is one:

In a nutshell, over the years there has been an over-supply of drivers into the industry, causing wages to drop, and conditions to decline. Companies basically wanting drivers to work more for less. That’s caused lorry driving to become an undesirable job. Drivers are packing-in, and nobody wants to replace them, hence the shortage.

There hasn’t been a massive increase in trucks on the road, or a decline in the number of licence holders, it’s just that no bugger wants to do the job!

It also asked 10 ex-drivers what their biggest hates of the job were. The most-mentioned were unrealistic expectations from management, being constantly spied-on by telematics, over-zealous authorities, and pain-in-the-backside car drivers! Stress also had a big mention.

Any thoughts?

In short, managers are greedy. Drivers are the corner to be cut. And we’re all idiots.

htmldude:
In short, managers are greedy. Drivers are the corner to be cut. And we’re all idiots.

I think its both, driver and haulier!

Didn’t need an ‘expert’ to tell them that, drivers have been saying the same points for at least the last 5yrs. Thing is management don’t seem to want to hear the truth, they’ve got their fingers wedged firmly in their lugs.

If there is a 50,000 shortage, why are firms not needing to compete in order to attract/retain drivers?
Perhaps it’s all a big lie made up by those wanting to retain an excess, and therefore costs down… :laughing:

To my mind, a shortage is when there isn’t enough to go around.

chicane:
Didn’t need an ‘expert’ to tell them that, drivers have been saying the same points for at least the last 5yrs. Thing is management don’t seem to want to hear the truth, they’ve got their fingers wedged firmly in their lugs.

They’ve certainly got a finger wedged somewhere but it ain’t in their earholes.

Evil8Beezle:
If there is a 50,000 shortage, why are firms not needing to compete in order to attract/retain drivers?
Perhaps it’s all a big lie made up by those wanting to retain an excess, and therefore costs down… :laughing:

To my mind, a shortage is when there isn’t enough to go around.

Depends where you are; Mansel Davies down my end are never short of drivers or work, but they pay peanuts. Having said that there are many drivers on their books who have been there for years; it’s often said that whilst the money may be crap the work is always there, MD pay you full wage, they don’t push you too hard and they don’t tend to lay drivers off. That counts for a lot down here where permanent jobs outside agriculture and tourism are hard to come by.

clearly wage inflation and better conditions offered would indicate a shortage .

of course with the 10s X '000s of ex soviets in this country presently , a driver shortage has been averted .

if we can extricate ourselves from the EU nightmare , and deport the cabbage soup eaters then the conditions will be created for a truly national driver shortage .

fingers crossed

boredwivdrivin:
clearly wage inflation and better conditions offered would indicate a shortage .

of course with the 10s X '000s of ex soviets in this country presently , a driver shortage has been averted .

if we can extricate ourselves from the EU nightmare , and deport the cabbage soup eaters then the conditions will be created for a truly national driver shortage .

fingers crossed

Drop the racism and again I’ll agree with you!
(Again!!! :open_mouth:)

.

( it is not possible to be ‘racist’ to people of your own race !!

if you want to discover racism go to east europe . casual racism against ‘black ’ people & ’ brown’ is endemic .

you will not hear racism from me : not least as 2 dawtos are asian and another west indian .

these Dolphus type foreigners going on about being ’ less ’ foreign than black people gets my back up .

everybody who is not English is …

foreign !

but saying that is not racist , its nationalistic ))

Putting my Devil’s Advocate hat on for a minute - Has anyone considered that what we refer to as “The Management” (Ie what are really middle management) are merely a buffer zone between the real management (rarely leaving their Ivory Towers) who make the policies that we all hate so much as drivers?

(1) A driver is expected to work more than 40 hours per week as standard without paid meal breaks, or in some cases - unpaid POA too. Management class would be expected to work 35-40 hours per week with paid breaks, fully paid sick, and no penalties for failures.

(2) A driver is expected to answer the phone from the office/planners whilst out on the road. If a hands-free kit is not installed in the cab by the company - then presumably, one is expected to pull over (not always possible) and answer one’s own mobile phone. Looking for somewhere to pull in every time the damned phone rings - is stressful to say the least. A lot of the time it’s going to ring with all those bull messages about PPI and whatnot. Surely a better, safer, and legal option is to switch the damned thing off, or don’t even take one with you? - Think back to what we did when we HAD no mobiles as part of our daily clothing…

(3) If a driver seriously injures or kills someone - all too often the firm attempts to cut them loose, resulting in a floundering driver sometimes bringing down the company with it - no one wins. A driver can expect to go to jail or be heavily personally fined for their sins. Not so anyone behind management policy that might have “institutionalized” a serious risk into common work practice, eg. “planning” drivers to work 15 hour shifts…

(4) How often is a driver pestered on their daily rest or even weekly rest? - Who makes that decision? Is a driver in trouble if, they for some reason, "cannot be contacted when off the premises?

(5) Why has so much encouragement gone into employing drivers with foreign licences (often obtained with a much lower standard of driving than uk drivers) - but too little effort is made in training up full time staff to C+E standard, especially female staff - all whom have good car driving records…?

(6) Why are we not going to our own docks more to pick up imports/take export stuff to? Who made that decision? - Bet it wasn’t “middle management”!

(7) Trampers should be paid a lot more than £25-£30 “night out money” for the inconvenience of “inputting their entire life” into the job. Why are trampers paid less than weekday night drivers in so many places? - If middle management could chuck THIS kind of endemic policy into the bin - I’m sure they’d have a lot less bother recruiting and retaining drivers… Once again - I suggest this idea had nothing to do with “middle management” - It’s Ivory Tower Policy, and political in the way that decision was originally made…

(8) Why have laws been made to severely limit the power of a striking driver - but not to limit the unsafe practices of a manager who may well have a lapsed licence - if that - who is expected to jump into a cab they are “rusty” with driving at best - at full danger to themselves, company property, and the public alike? - All to make sure that striking drivers “never achieve anything” by their already emasculated actions? :frowning:

(9) Why don’t haulier firms provide state-of-the-art health care to staff? - Having a driver collapse at the wheel often has collateral damage on the public too, as the Glasgow Dustcart case demonstrated. Free BUPA-Style health care would have picked up any dodgy ailments early - and pensioned that driver off, rather than encourage them to keep stumn lest they just be given the boot for being unlucky enough to develop a dodgy medical condition… :angry:

All in all, I’m sure very few suits would put up with the bull they hurl at the footsoldiers in this, and some other businesses too.

If the shortage continues unabated, in a few year’s time this entire body of people may well be far more militant foreigners with an axe to grind - that won’t be so easily ignored by the very people that employed them over the incumbent, but outgoing drivers currently doing the job, average age 54 by this point… :bulb:

Evil8Beezle:
If there is a 50,000 shortage, why are firms not needing to compete in order to attract/retain drivers?
Perhaps it’s all a big lie made up by those wanting to retain an excess, and therefore costs down… :laughing:

To my mind, a shortage is when there isn’t enough to go around.

If there is a shortage of skilled drivers - a firm will employ an unskilled or reckless one instead. Look at agency criteria for example: Often “6 points OK” is seen on sign-up terms and conditions…

If all firms insisted upon “clean licence holders sought” - then they’d only get those drivers over to them with some outstanding packages eh?

I’ve never darkened the doors of firms like Polypipe, DPD, Canute, or Maritime - 'cos my clean licence is clearly worth more than what crap money these outfits are prepared to pay “as standard”. Let’s do the name and shame here!

The public should be concerned at the quality of a driver who’d accept such dire pay and conditions… Who walks “Deeper into the pavement” when one of their wagons passes for example?

If there’s no high-paid jobs for the premium driver - but stacks of low-paid shifts for the “6 points OK” brigade - then that’ll keep costs down allright - until the Insurance company smells a rat after a succession of large damages claims!

boredwivdrivin:
.

( it is not possible to be ‘racist’ to people of your own race !!

if you want to discover racism go to east europe . casual racism against ‘black ’ people & ’ brown’ is endemic .

you will not hear racism from me : not least as 2 dawtos are asian and another west indian .

these Dolphus type foreigners going on about being ’ less ’ foreign than black people gets my back up .

everybody who is not English is …

foreign !

but saying that is not racist , its nationalistic ))

Talking gibberish again, yes its possible to be racist to people of your own race. Racism is also based of nationality/country of origin, not only on race alone.
Do you read English language? I’ve stated many times that Im against illegal immigrants from the Middle East who have no place here because they are illegals, let alone integrate. You stated that you prefer Afghanis then EE, OK, just be careful what you wish for.
Since when on your passport is written English?

The thread is about drivers shortage, which you’re turning again into hateful anti Eastern European stage…

Winseer:
Putting my Devil’s Advocate hat on for a minute - Has anyone considered that what we refer to as “The Management” (Ie what are really middle management) are merely a buffer zone between the real management (rarely leaving their Ivory Towers) who make the policies that we all hate so much as drivers?

(1) A driver is expected to work more than 40 hours per week as standard without paid meal breaks, or in some cases - unpaid POA too. Management class would be expected to work 35-40 hours per week with paid breaks, fully paid sick, and no penalties for failures.

I pay through breaks and POA. On a ferry guaranteed 12 hours if it’s a full day sailing, thats 8 hours standard time and 4 hours overtime. I self-insure for my sick pay, I can’t remember the last time I did less than 50 hours, often more. If I fail, I lose my house - that’s my definition of a penalty.

(2) A driver is expected to answer the phone from the office/planners whilst out on the road. If a hands-free kit is not installed in the cab by the company - then presumably, one is expected to pull over (not always possible) and answer one’s own mobile phone. Looking for somewhere to pull in every time the damned phone rings - is stressful to say the least. A lot of the time it’s going to ring with all those bull messages about PPI and whatnot. Surely a better, safer, and legal option is to switch the damned thing off, or don’t even take one with you? - Think back to what we did when we HAD no mobiles as part of our daily clothing…

I rarely ring the drivers. Sometimes when they are abroad, I ring them just so they know they are being thought of! :blush:

(3) If a driver seriously injures or kills someone - all too often the firm attempts to cut them loose, resulting in a floundering driver sometimes bringing down the company with it - no one wins. A driver can expect to go to jail or be heavily personally fined for their sins. Not so anyone behind management policy that might have “institutionalized” a serious risk into common work practice, eg. “planning” drivers to work 15 hour shifts…

If a driver were to seriously injure/kill someone ( *touching wood here), we’d stand by them. Never having been in that situation, we don’t have any experience. However, when we had 18 migrants int he back of a trailer and the drivers said, ‘are we going to get done’, the first words out of my mouth were, ‘don’t worry, we’ll cover the fines’. In theory if someone is killed, I can face Corporate manslaughter charges).

I had two drivers on an overnight run once that finished around 08.00 in the middle of France when it was hot weather. They did their 9 hours off and one rang somewhat grumpily, ‘it’s been too hot, I’ve had no sleep’. so i told them to go and find a hotel and kick off in the morning. I’ve no interest in a driver driving tired. I don’t underestimate the sometimes brutal hours, I’ve done a ■■■■ sight more in my mis-spent youth.

(4) How often is a driver pestered on their daily rest or even weekly rest? - Who makes that decision? Is a driver in trouble if, they for some reason, "cannot be contacted when off the premises?

Rarely. when we do, its’ because something has changed that is out of our hands.

(5) Why has so much encouragement gone into employing drivers with foreign licences (often obtained with a much lower standard of driving than uk drivers) - but too little effort is made in training up full time staff to C+E standard, especially female staff - all whom have good car driving records…?

i don’t employ any foreign drivers. From a small hauliers perspective, I like the idea of giving a youngster a chance, but shelling out for training and a licence and then facing them leaving, is too expensive for us. Doesn’t matter how many clauses you have in a contract about them staying, they may not and recovering the money would be hard work. i don’t think that many women want to go into haulage - and I say that as a woman with a large circle of female friends - they just don’t fancy it.

(6) Why are we not going to our own docks more to pick up imports/take export stuff to? Who made that decision? - Bet it wasn’t “middle management”!

(7) Trampers should be paid a lot more than £25-£30 “night out money” for the inconvenience of “inputting their entire life” into the job. Why are trampers paid less than weekday night drivers in so many places? - If middle management could chuck THIS kind of endemic policy into the bin - I’m sure they’d have a lot less bother recruiting and retaining drivers… Once again - I suggest this idea had nothing to do with “middle management” - It’s Ivory Tower Policy, and political in the way that decision was originally made…

As I said on an earlier thread, we spend a lot on hotel bills ( admittedly a quirk of our work). I’m not sure where I stand on this. It never bothered when I was driving, I’d wander off if i was in an area I could do and go for a mooch, and the night out money more than covered any costs. I do see your point, just not sure what the answer is.

(8) Why have laws been made to severely limit the power of a striking driver - but not to limit the unsafe practices of a manager who may well have a lapsed licence - if that - who is expected to jump into a cab they are “rusty” with driving at best - at full danger to themselves, company property, and the public alike? - All to make sure that striking drivers “never achieve anything” by their already emasculated actions? :frowning:

No issue with limiting unsafe practices, I run legal. From a purely personal perspective, my drivers can go on strike if they want. I’d finish the firm though. On the other hand they seem pretty content, so it’s unlikely to happen. i don’t like bullying management, I don’t like bullying drivers - at least I’m consistent.

(9) Why don’t haulier firms provide state-of-the-art health care to staff? - Having a driver collapse at the wheel often has collateral damage on the public too, as the Glasgow Dustcart case demonstrated. Free BUPA-Style health care would have picked up any dodgy ailments early - and pensioned that driver off, rather than encourage them to keep stumn lest they just be given the boot for being unlucky enough to develop a dodgy medical condition… :angry:

Not enough money in the job. I don’t take care of myself.

All in all, I’m sure very few suits would put up with the bull they hurl at the footsoldiers in this, and some other businesses too.

If the shortage continues unabated, in a few year’s time this entire body of people may well be far more militant foreigners with an axe to grind - that won’t be so easily ignored by the very people that employed them over the incumbent, but outgoing drivers currently doing the job, average age 54 by this point… :bulb:

FWIW, I think drivers are underpaid. The shortage may see pay being pushed up, it should do. On the other hand, if we get another crash or a period of deflation, there may be more drivers than work available.

boredwivdrivin:
.

( it is not possible to be ‘racist’ to people of your own race !!

if you want to discover racism go to east europe . casual racism against ‘black ’ people & ’ brown’ is endemic .

you will not hear racism from me : not least as 2 dawtos are asian and another west indian .

these Dolphus type foreigners going on about being ’ less ’ foreign than black people gets my back up .

everybody who is not English is …

foreign !

but saying that is not racist , its nationalistic ))

In some EE coutry driving training more strong for Uk.There must taked as many as requared training day.If instructors think who still not good he not allow taked test at test station.And you can see what can do people who just pass test here.Plenty new drivers can t pass assestment.

I dont see much evidence of a career path for new young drivers.Most firms dont want a man who has recently invested £3,000 of his own money to obtain a licence.

Andrejs:

boredwivdrivin:
.

( it is not possible to be ‘racist’ to people of your own race !!

if you want to discover racism go to east europe . casual racism against ‘black ’ people & ’ brown’ is endemic .

you will not hear racism from me : not least as 2 dawtos are asian and another west indian .

these Dolphus type foreigners going on about being ’ less ’ foreign than black people gets my back up .

everybody who is not English is …

foreign !

but saying that is not racist , its nationalistic ))

In some EE coutry driving training more strong for Uk.There must taked as many as requared training day.If instructors think who still not good he not allow taked test at test station.And you can see what can do people who just pass test here.Plenty new drivers can t pass assestment.

Don’t burst his bubble. Most EE countries have tougher standards as of 2015/2016 then the UK, from what I read/hear from people. Like here manual gears are a mandatory for C and CE training, no autos, no rear view cameras etc. and the exams are a bit draconian, also you cant take the whole training in 4 days or 1 week, minimum is 2 weeks with everyday driving.
On my C cat exam 3 month ago I was made to drive in and out of town, hill climbing and descending - shifting gears, using the engine brake etc. for 1 hour and 20 min while the whole exam was video taped and will be kept in storage for 50 years. Thats what the examiner told me, in case of accident or any investigation the tape can be used to prove how a person got his/her licence, this is valid for the theory test as well.
And the next thing I hear:“you people in EE get your licences by grandfather rule” :unamused:

Yes in to many country if people want get lass 2 licence he must go to theory at least 10-20 hours and after taked at least 10 hours lessons ,each lessons about 2 hours.From start to finish can taked about 2 month.I not sure what is better 5 day training or 2 month deal.But any country driving training and test -one side.First driving day and after -another side.Not so much drivers do in life all what he was learn at training.Near not one drivers check every day brake light at trailers(day time),not so much drivers check mirrors every 3 second and much more.If DVSA now simply for example make some example test for drivers with 30 years experiense(no accident in all life) so plenty and plenty drivers fail test and get plenty serius mistakes and more for 15 small mistakes.

Main reason why people no apply for driving job and preffer another job -unsuitable start time.12 hours shift work not just drivers but they work 6am-6pm or opposite.but company offer for drivers some time start time -any in 24 hours Some olb guys accept start time 1am-3 am ,but young person must start job more in day time.Some people will no go work for 4000 per month or more if he want good life.Money not everything.Remove “must have at least 2 years experince rules”,give for young guy good start time and here will job shortgate anywhere.My forecast -after 5-10 years will be much less companies ,less truck at the road and less drivers will requared.Can explained after why this can happened.

Dolph how can there be a driver shortage when there is an oversupply of drivers ■■

And it is racist for you to suggest that you are superior as an immigrant to an immigrant from countries you dont happen to like .

You can spit the liberal democrat handbook as much as you like , but immigratiion should be controlled on the economies needs , and not on political stitch ups and discrimination .

And andrejs all immigrants should have to take UK driving test before they can work here . native driving licences are fine for holidays , but not for work .

boredwivdrivin:
Dolph how can there be a driver shortage when there is an oversupply of drivers ■■

And it is racist for you to suggest that you are superior as an immigrant to an immigrant from countries you dont happen to like .

You can spit the liberal democrat handbook as much as you like , but immigratiion should be controlled on the economies needs , and not on political stitch ups and discrimination .

And andrejs all immigrants should have to take UK driving test before they can work here . native driving licences are fine for holidays , but not for work .

Well its British business(industry) and politicians that say there is driver shortage, I don’t know for sure.
I never said Im superior to anyone, I’ve stated numerous times that Im against illegals from Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and every other place who are mostly males. Illegal border crossing is invasion, you stated that you prefer Afghani invaders instead of lawful Eastern Europeans.
How do you know who I like and who I don’t, again putting words in my mouth.
Well Eastern European are not stopping you from controlling your borders, get Brexit and put a wall if you want its your choice. Also UK issues 1 million visas(excluding tourist ot visit visas) each year, to non EU citizens. Tell me, do you have 1 million new jobs every year to allow so many foreigners? In other words, you can control your non EU immigration and not only you don’t do it, but let more people in then EU citizens are coming per year .

P.S. We have to set up an examination station in Calais for every British driver going in the continent, regardless for work or holiday. I don’t mind taking British driving test, as long as Brits take driving test in the country they live - Spain, Bulgaria or any other!