The history of the 8 wheeler

[pv83]

There are many photo’s on the “oldtimer” section that feature 8 wheelers, but I can’t really find a thread that’s solely dedicated to the origins of the 8 wheeler, so I thought I’d give it a go, although I do need the help of you far more experienced lot out there, because as some of you keep reminding me, I’m still a whippersnapper

I got searching after Paul Gee posted a photo of a Dennis 8 wheeler, although not in the classic sense of the word, as it’s fitted with a tridem setup, but it triggered me to find out where it all began.

So after a search in my own archives, I found a book written by Dutch engineer Hans Stovelaar, wherein he tries to unravel the mysteries of the 8 wheeler.

It seems that Sentinel was the first one to introduce a 8 wheeler on the market, the DG8, which in essence was a DG6 with a extra axle fitted.

The main reason for this was the Road Traffic Act in 1930, which stated that lorries fitted with 2 axles could carry 12t, 19t on 3 axles, and 22t for vehicles with more than 4 axles. So upon till this point, lorries with 4 axles didn’t exist…?

Another interesting thing is the name that we all know them under, 8 wheeler(s), it seems that that originates from the railroad industry, a steam powered locomotive with 4 axles and with traction on 2 of those axles is known as a 8 wheeler, the American firm Baldwin in Philadelphia was the first one to give that title to their locomotives.

Apologies in advance if this topic has been covered before.

Cheers, Patrick

[windrush]

An interesting thread, seeing as how I was in and around them for almost thirty years! I believe, and will be corrected by those around at the time, that AEC produced the first British built eight wheeler not powered by steam and Alf Sutton had an early one? I rode in my first one as a nipper with my father in the mid fifties (there are pics of it on this forum) and have loved them ever since! Lovely to drive, I will never forget doing just one load on a four wheeler and launching it flat out into Sandybrook Corner on the A 515 near Ashbourne and thinking I was going to end up in the field, they don’t ‘corner on rails’ like an eight wheeler rigid does!!

The Sentinel of Tarmacs I have seen many times, it appears at shows all around the UK but is usually transported there. I believe it lives somewhere in the North East?

Pete.

[pete_smith]

Hi Patrick,
There was an earlier model on solid tyres. Blowers Green was a transport company from Dudley West Midlands.

[gingerfold]

The first internal combustion engine powered eight-wheeler was indeed built by AEC in 1934. It is preserved and in the vast collection of vehicles owned by the Science Museum. In the livery of J M Mills it was restored by the late Harry Pick, an AEC ‘lifer’, and it still has its original 6-cylinder petrol engine. It was rallied for a few years after it was restored in the early 1980s. The preserved London Brick AEC eight-wheeler from 1934 was converted from a 6-wheeler, as were many early eight-wheelers from AEC and Leyland. Eight-wheelers were prohibited by law from towing a drawbar trailer until the law was relaxed in 1942 because of wartime needs.

[carryfast]

Still rightfully the mainstay of the NZ road transport industry.The refusal to allow the maximum potential provided by the 8 wheeler rigid and drawbar trailer configuration arguably playing a massive part in the downfall of the Brit truck manufacturing industry and hindering the potential efficiency of the road transport industry.

[frankydobo]

Its doubtful the term 8 wheeler originated from the US, what came first ‘four wheeler’, ‘six wheeler’, ’ eight wheeler’. As the first two layouts were around before the four axle rigid its more likely the term four and six wheeler were already in use before the 8 wheeler arrived, as double wheels on an axle have never been counted in the UK to describe the layout whether its a 4x2, 6x4, 6x2 or 8x4 etc. Scammell introduced the term Rigid Eight with their 8 wheel design to distinguish between that and their articulated models although these were produced a few years after the AEC 8 wheeler Gingerfold describes. However the Heavy Motor Car (Amendment) (No2) Order 1930, which came into force on the 1st October that year legally recognised the four axle non articulated lorry and by the mid 30’s set a speed limit of 20mph while the artic (Scammell introducing these in the 20’s) or lorry and trailer was restricted to 16mph and with a Gross weight of 22 tons, compared to 19 tons for a six wheel rigid it wasn’t long before the advantages of the 8 wheeler became recognised at least until later weight and speed restrictions changed which would favour the artic. Franky.

[valkyrie]

TruckNetUK .Old Time Lorries . The History Of The 8 Wheeler . Page 1
First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV .Easter Monday,13th April,2020.
VALKYRIE

Possibly the first Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV
was the Reeves Octoauto Twin Steer Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motorcar made by the Reeves Sexto-Octo
Company,Columbus,Indiana,USA from 1911 to 1912.
They also made a six-wheeler motorcar called the Sextoauto…and no…I’m not making all of this up

Reeves pre-empted Leyland with at least half of the Octopus name! In fact Reeves,Goodyear,Fageol,
Eight-Wheel Motor Company,Versare,Morris-Commercial-MWEE,Guy and JAG-YAG (they may have been other motor vehicle marques) beat AEC in to making the First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle Reeves looks to be the winner by at least 22 years! ,followed by all the others!

R8.Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV -the first one Q -Reeves Octoauto R8 Motorcar,USA,1911.Advertisement.Wikipedia.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.PV83.4#
[attachment=9]R8.Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV -the first one ? -Reeves Octoauto R8 Motorcar,USA,1911.Advertisement.Wikipedia.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.PV83.4#.jpg[/attachment]

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Goodyear Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Bus,USA,of 1922. TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.OldMotor.Com.1#

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Pacific Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Motorcoach of 1922.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Fageol Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Bus & Motortruck of 1923.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Single Decker Bus Mk1 of 1925.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Lorry-Motortruck Mk2 of 1926.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=.ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Single Decker Bus Mk2 of 1926.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#

R8.ICEREWMV.Morris-Commercial D Experimental Internal Combustion-Engined R8x8,Lorry,MC 9203,of 1929,built by Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment,GB.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Pinterest.1# British military vehicle.

R8.ICEREWMV.JAG-YAG-12 Internal Combustion-Engined,Dropside-Bodied,12-Ton,R8x8,Lorry,1932,Russia.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.WeaponNews.Com.1# Military.

R8.ICEREWMV.Guy Internal Combustion-Engined R8x8 Road Locomotive of 1931 pre-empted AEC Mammoth Major Eight R8.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.W&T.1# British military vehicle.

VALKYRIE

[pv83]

windrush:
An interesting thread, seeing as how I was in and around them for almost thirty years! I believe, and will be corrected by those around at the time, that AEC produced the first British built eight wheeler not powered by steam and Alf Sutton had an early one? I rode in my first one as a nipper with my father in the mid fifties (there are pics of it on this forum) and have loved them ever since! Lovely to drive, I will never forget doing just one load on a four wheeler and launching it flat out into Sandybrook Corner on the A 515 near Ashbourne and thinking I was going to end up in the field, they don’t ‘corner on rails’ like an eight wheeler rigid does!!

The Sentinel of Tarmacs I have seen many times, it appears at shows all around the UK but is usually transported there. I believe it lives somewhere in the North East?

Pete.

Interesting that you’ve mentioned the handling of it Pete, as I would have thought it was the other way round! More traction with a four wheeler like, especially when running empty? Cheers for the input mate

[pv83]

pete smith:
Hi Patrick,
There was an earlier model on solid tyres. Blowers Green was a transport company from Dudley West Midlands.

Ta Pete, which model was this then?

[pv83]

gingerfold:
The first internal combustion engine powered eight-wheeler was indeed built by AEC in 1934. It is preserved and in the vast collection of vehicles owned by the Science Museum. In the livery of J M Mills it was restored by the late Harry Pick, an AEC ‘lifer’, and it still has its original 6-cylinder petrol engine. It was rallied for a few years after it was restored in the early 1980s. The preserved London Brick AEC eight-wheeler from 1934 was converted from a 6-wheeler, as were many early eight-wheelers from AEC and Leyland. Eight-wheelers were prohibited by law from towing a drawbar trailer until the law was relaxed in 1942 because of wartime needs.
1
0

Cheers for the info

[pv83]

Frankydobo:
Its doubtful the term 8 wheeler originated from the US, what came first ‘four wheeler’, ‘six wheeler’, ’ eight wheeler’. As the first two layouts were around before the four axle rigid its more likely the term four and six wheeler were already in use before the 8 wheeler arrived, as double wheels on an axle have never been counted in the UK to describe the layout whether its a 4x2, 6x4, 6x2 or 8x4 etc. Scammell introduced the term Rigid Eight with their 8 wheel design to distinguish between that and their articulated models although these were produced a few years after the AEC 8 wheeler Gingerfold describes. However the Heavy Motor Car (Amendment) (No2) Order 1930, which came into force on the 1st October that year legally recognised the four axle non articulated lorry and by the mid 30’s set a speed limit of 20mph while the artic (Scammell introducing these in the 20’s) or lorry and trailer was restricted to 16mph and with a Gross weight of 22 tons, compared to 19 tons for a six wheel rigid it wasn’t long before the advantages of the 8 wheeler became recognised at least until later weight and speed restrictions changed which would favour the artic. Franky.

Good point, cheers

[pv83]

VALKYRIE:
TruckNetUK .Old Time Lorries . The History Of The 8 Wheeler . Page 1
First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV .Easter Monday,13th April,2020.
VALKYRIE

Possibly the first Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV
was the Reeves Octoauto Twin Steer Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motorcar made by the Reeves Sexto-Octo
Company,Columbus,Indiana,USA from 1911 to 1912.
They also made a six-wheeler motorcar called the Sextoauto…and no…I’m not making all of this up

Reeves pre-empted Leyland with at least half of the Octopus name! In fact Reeves,Goodyear,Fageol,
Eight-Wheel Motor Company,Versare,Morris-Commercial-MWEE,Guy and JAG-YAG (they may have been other motor vehicle marques) beat AEC in to making the First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle Reeves looks to be the winner by at least 22 years! ,followed by all the others!

R8.Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV -the first one Q -Reeves Octoauto R8 Motorcar,USA,1911.Advertisement.Wikipedia.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.PV83.4#
[attachment=9]R8.Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV -the first one ? -Reeves Octoauto R8 Motorcar,USA,1911.Advertisement.Wikipedia.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.PV83.4#.jpg[/attachment]

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Goodyear Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Bus,USA,of 1922. TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.OldMotor.Com.1#
8

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Pacific Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Motorcoach of 1922.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#
7

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Fageol Twin Steer Rigid 8x4 Single Decker Bus & Motortruck of 1923.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#
6

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Single Decker Bus Mk1 of 1925.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#
5

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Lorry-Motortruck Mk2 of 1926.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#
4

R8.First Internal Combustion Engined Rigid Eight-Wheeler Motor Vehicle=.ICEREWMV.Versare Rigid 8x4 Gasoline-Petrol-Elecric Single Decker Bus Mk2 of 1926.USA.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Coachbuilt.1#
3

R8.ICEREWMV.Morris-Commercial D Experimental Internal Combustion-Engined R8x8,Lorry,MC 9203,of 1929,built by Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment,GB.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.Pinterest.1# British military vehicle.
2

R8.ICEREWMV.JAG-YAG-12 Internal Combustion-Engined,Dropside-Bodied,12-Ton,R8x8,Lorry,1932,Russia.TNUK,OTL-History Of Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.WeaponNews.Com.1# Military.
1

R8.ICEREWMV.Guy Internal Combustion-Engined R8x8 Road Locomotive of 1931 pre-empted AEC Mammoth Major Eight R8.TNUK,OTL-The History Of The Eight-Wheeler,1.4-2020.W&T.1# British military vehicle.
0

VALKYRIE

Cheers Valkyrie, great info

[chrisarbon]

Did someone mention New Zealand?

[carryfast]

ChrisArbon:
Did someone mention New Zealand?

What might have been here too.A game changer for AEC and Foden at least if only we had a decent government.Notice the Euros and Scandi imports are at a relative disadvantage with that configuration even today let alone back in the 1960’s and 70’s.

[star_down_under]

Or Australia?

[pv83]

Star down under.:
Or Australia?

Yes! We have a winner!

[carryfast]

pv83:

Star down under.:
Or Australia?

Yes! We have a winner!

With a 45 ft 5 axle trailer deffo.

[froggy55]

Certainly a brilliant idea to have started this thread, Patrick! I discovered 8-wheelers when I boarded off the ferry in Dover in July 1965, aged 10. They were unknown here in France, where rigid trucks were limited to 26 tonnes until 1992. Bernard made an attempt jn the early sixties with this truck (26 DA 8P 180 fitted with integral air suspension), hoping it would be admitted at 32 tonnes. Alas for them, it was admitted at 26 tonnes, and scrapped a couple of years later, due to its important kerb weight.

[zb_anorak]

The TV 8 wheel fridge van is in my top ten best-looking vehicles. The stylist/designer of the bodywork must have made everyone in the factory proud, when the vehicle rolled out of the door.

Fascinating thread. This forum is the business. It’s like going into the library and having the librarian open all the books at the right page. Ta to all contributors.

[gingerfold]

^^^^^^^^
If I had been boss of Bernard and one of my staff had designed something as repulsive as that he would have been told to clear his desk there and then.