Rjan:
Franglais:
WTO tariffs are (top of my head) 10% on finished cars and 4.5% on parts. Also 35% on dairy produce, and I think high rates on sheep meat too.I’m going to have to call for some authority on this because it’s not consistent with my understanding of the WTO at all.
You seem to be suggesting that, when a member of the WTO, it is the WTO that sets all tariffs for the entire world at once, not the individual nations whose governments are left to determine their own level of tariffs.
You have also suggested, somewhat implausibly in my view, that it is because the US and China have some sort of deal in place, which allows the US to ramp up tariffs to punish China.
If they traded on WTO terms, in your argument, it would be the WTO that set the tariff, and neither Trump nor Xi would be able to change them.
Whether or not we are net importers of cars, why would Mr Nissan build a factory here if it’s main market is hampered with tax?
It’s main market won’t be hampered with tax, because it’s main market will be the domestic market. I’ve explained (and supported with car industry statistics) how our domestic car market is currently larger than our entire car production - the gap currently filled with imports, will be filled by Mr Nissan selling his cars here rather than putting them on a ship for export.
Or as Toonsy asks will be all be driving identicars from the single state owned factory?
There appears to be no pleasing you. First you say it’s crucial to have scale, and the EU provides that. Now we need bespoke production, lest we drive identical cars - heaven forbid I share my car design with more than a million other drivers.
Perhaps you could argue that we get both benefits in the EU, scale and choice, but my argument is that such profligate “choice” for consumers actually means “competition down” on wages for workers - and very often it means increasingly shoddy design and higher repair costs for consumers, too.
It is not the job of workers to subsidise infinite whimsical choices for rich consumers. If there is natural capacity to provide choice when our wages are high and conditions secure, then that is all well and good - but we do not sell our jobs and wages down the river for consumer choice.
Ref “fear”.
If I’m in a car being driven recklessly, with the driver ignoring expert advice, I think fear is perfectly reasonable.
If we have expert international economists saying Brexit is bad, and NO Deal Brexit is worse, I think concern for the economy is entirety justified.
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You reject all trade??Well, as far as the radical right go, I don’t blame you for being fearful.
And I don’t reject all trade in principle. I do reject the idea that our democracy should not have a supervisory function over trade - that trade flows should be “free” and determined by the rich in the marketplace, rather than supervised and subject to democratic decisions.
And I also do reject the idea that competing for intra-EU exports with the French and Germans is a positive-sum game. It’s actually a negative-sum game for workers, it just drives our wages down.
As for expert economists (i.e. capitalist economists paid by the rich), do you really think they spend all day trying to give an honest appraisal of the benefit of socialist policies for workers? I always had you down as a left-winger Franglais, but you’re starting to make me wonder.
I think you’re correct, and I am misunderstanding some of the WTO issues. I’ll come back later on that.
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If I have views that are mostly left wing, then i guess that makes me left wing.
That doesn’t mean I have chosen to be a “left winger” and seek to follow leftist paths.
