The HGV Agency Fandango

ETS:

Grandpa:
I meant combined EU WTD and employer’s greed with a low cost foreign workforce.

You got it backwards - it’s the general public’s (aka consumers) greed for low price goods. Everyone wants to buy more - now, pay less - later, if possible - with 0 thought about the real cost down the line.

People wanting cheap is nothing new. To provide cheap you have to make it cheap and deliver it cheap and right across the board from warehouse to delivery it’s being done on the cheap using foreign labour and the resulting low wages.

Munchkin:
Today however truck driving is like driving a long car. Guys who would have been street sweepers, labourers or worked in other low skilled jobs that have disappeared now drive trucks. Easy life, anyone can drive, right? Obviously this is not conducive to a high wage occupation.

And there we have it again, the argument to which I referred. Truck driving is low skill, easy, the sort of thing done by street sweepers and labourers (implicitly, the sorts of people who, in this argument, deserve low pay, unlike we kings of the road, able to wrangle with 16 gears, could properly expect).

The street sweeper and labourer will return the favour. Look at that driver, sat in comfort, twiddling with gear sticks that almost any man can do with practice, not out in the elements every day sweeping the street, or ■■■■■■■ heavy things around a warehouse, or shovelling muck on a building site, real hard work.

It’s true that in the free market, an oversupply of workers will lead to low wages. If we train a million doctors, or split their jobs up into simpler roles, their pay will fall to that of the warehouseman. But this is why workers shouldn’t accept the free market mechanism.

Doctors certainly don’t - they have organisations like the BMA to lobby governments, set standards, limit numbers to ensure there is never an over-supply and thus a reserve of trained but unemployed doctors, maintain stability, and stop bosses gambling (as much as possible) with the quality and safety of medical services.

Workers used to have the Labour party to perform a similar function, but nowadays evidently they spend more time trying to do each other down and duke it out over who deserves more, whilst the bosses lean back in the big chair and set all their pay low.

Rjan

You could try to find excuses for evermore, but the reality is that in recent years drivers have seen an ever rising EU bureaucracy and a corresponding rise in practices by companies to reduce the costs involved. We now live in a ‘gig economy’ and that wasn’t happening before – using cheap foreign labour is a simply a reaction to that. The longer we stay in the EU, the more the transport industry will be taken over by cheap foreign labour because a minimum wage is a good one to someone from Romania.

The WTD 2003/88/EC is an EU directive. The legal requirement of open borders which attracts cheap labour is an EU ruling. Both Labour and the Tories dragged us into all this and the majority of people voted for it to end because we’ve seen the results. Both the German and French economies are stagnating and despite all the hype, I’m personally waiting for the next recession which will be the excuse for the hourly rate to drop even further. Eventually the minimum wage and the current hourly drivers rate will meet somewhere in the middle in an unhappy medium. Getting dragged into the EU by politicians was the worst thing that ever happened to the British working class and we didn’t even vote for it.

Winseer:
There’s a ad board in a field near the clockwise approach to J28 off-slip on the M25…
It has been there at least for the past year.
0
Anyone here tried the agency advertized there?

These kind of advertising signs are all over the place, even trucks. The reality is that they are not going to find you a job that suits you, they will offer you what they’ve got and that’s often advertised across multi-agencies because they can’t find anyone to do it. Pick your agency and go for it, because they’re all very much alike, with new ones arriving all the time.

Winseer:
Great post!

I’ll just add that “Sick Pay” even at PAYE agencies - seems more scant by the day. I’ve spent 5 of the last 9 years on different agencies and during that time I’ve come across:

0 agencies that paid any sick pay for the 4 shifts I dropped through actual illness over this period. One of them - let me go over it.
2 days where I turned up on time for a shift, only to be told “I’d been cancelled, and if you try to claim a minimum call out for it - you’ll never work here again”
3 days where I was cancelled as I was putting my coat on to come in.
3 days where I was sent to the wrong depot for a shift. (1 of those, the depot put me to use, and I got paid though - so I tip my hat to what was then Yodel, Aylesford for that)
2 payslips where £27 was deducted, and they lied and lied and lied that “I’d be better off for it”. I wasn’t. I was £27 down for it.
1 Agency that tried to charge me for PPE when I was clearly using my own already.
1 agency that only paid “average hours from previous 2 weeks” as “holiday pay” - only to NEVER EVER let me take a holiday after I’d just done a 5-6 fortnight with weekends/nights shifts in it.
4 agencies that never even gave me a first shift.
2 agencies that offered me a first shift over 80 miles away, which I refused on the grounds of “economically unviable” (5 hours guaranteed, £10ph in 2012 - commuting from Medway, Kent to (old) Iceland Harlow)
1 agency that offered me £12ph and when I got paid it was minimum wage instead “You didn’t ask us for it in writing pal, and there’s plenty of other fish in the sea if you’re done with us…”
1 agency that kept offering me horrible sounding shifts, that I took - but then they phoned straight back to say it was cancelled.
1 client that wouldn’t give me a shift - if I didn’t have any 15 hour availability left for that week.

…and on the upside…

2 client shifts (same agency) where I got paid 6 hours after being cancelled at the last minute
4 client shifts (2 agencies) where I was on “induction training” - but got paid. (supermarkets)
2 agencies where I got 12.07% of gross earnings paid into a “Holiday Pot” that then didn’t decay over time.
2 agencies that actually deducted the correct tax and NI - straight out of the gate.
2 agencies I didn’t get a back tax demand from HMRC over
3 agencies that didn’t “Let me go” over something that was clearly the client or agency’s fault.
2 agencies that actually had the promised “Plenty of work, ongoingly…”
1 agency that got me a temp-perm full time job for nearly three years at one of their clients

You’ve just stated what everyone of us who work for agencies have been or are going through. I just gave up one agency job for the promise of another better suited and lost a nights wage chasing something that when I turned up turned out to be multi-drop. In other words the promised job didn’t exist. I walked away and am now having to eat humble pie trying to get my old job back which wasn’t any great shakes either, but at least it was regular. I’ve got another 18 months or so till I retire and I’m off back abroad and I’ll be more than happy to leave all this behind me. :slight_smile:

Grandpa:
Rjan

You could try to find excuses for evermore, but the reality is that in recent years drivers have seen an ever rising EU bureaucracy and a corresponding rise in practices by companies to reduce the costs involved. We now live in a ‘gig economy’ and that wasn’t happening before – using cheap foreign labour is a simply a reaction to that. The longer we stay in the EU, the more the transport industry will be taken over by cheap foreign labour because a minimum wage is a good one to someone from Romania.

The WTD 2003/88/EC is an EU directive. The legal requirement of open borders which attracts cheap labour is an EU ruling. Both Labour and the Tories dragged us into all this and the majority of people voted for it to end because we’ve seen the results. Both the German and French economies are stagnating and despite all the hype, I’m personally waiting for the next recession which will be the excuse for the hourly rate to drop even further. Eventually the minimum wage and the current hourly drivers rate will meet somewhere in the middle in an unhappy medium. Getting dragged into the EU by politicians was the worst thing that ever happened to the British working class and we didn’t even vote for it.

And I agree with your points about the single market. Freedom of movement of capital, goods, services, and people across democratic boundaries are not in workers’ interests

But I’m not clearly seeing where all the EU bureaucracy is.

If we set aside matters of payroll and minimum working conditions which I’ve already addressed (by pointing out they merely reflect strictures that already existed previously in domestic law - drivers’ hours rules go back to the Road Traffic Act 1930 iirc), I’m struggling to think of any other examples.

Rjan:

Grandpa:
Rjan

You could try to find excuses for evermore, but the reality is that in recent years drivers have seen an ever rising EU bureaucracy and a corresponding rise in practices by companies to reduce the costs involved. We now live in a ‘gig economy’ and that wasn’t happening before – using cheap foreign labour is a simply a reaction to that. The longer we stay in the EU, the more the transport industry will be taken over by cheap foreign labour because a minimum wage is a good one to someone from Romania.

The WTD 2003/88/EC is an EU directive. The legal requirement of open borders which attracts cheap labour is an EU ruling. Both Labour and the Tories dragged us into all this and the majority of people voted for it to end because we’ve seen the results. Both the German and French economies are stagnating and despite all the hype, I’m personally waiting for the next recession which will be the excuse for the hourly rate to drop even further. Eventually the minimum wage and the current hourly drivers rate will meet somewhere in the middle in an unhappy medium. Getting dragged into the EU by politicians was the worst thing that ever happened to the British working class and we didn’t even vote for it.

And I agree with your points about the single market. Freedom of movement of capital, goods, services, and people across democratic boundaries are not in workers’ interests

But I’m not clearly seeing where all the EU bureaucracy is.

If we set aside matters of payroll and minimum working conditions which I’ve already addressed (by pointing out they merely reflect strictures that already existed previously in domestic law - drivers’ hours rules go back to the Road Traffic Act 1930 iirc), I’m struggling to think of any other examples.

The EU rules, directives and laws are the bureaucracy. How do you think we managed to get into the gig economy low paid mess we’re in now? Do you think British politicians under the Tories and Labour managed to do that all on their own? Regulations and greed feed off each other. Do you think it’s any better in Europe? The German and French economies are stagnating and we’re stuck in a foreign labour low wage gig economy. The whole EU thing is falling apart and the only people benefitting are the East Europeans. Find me one person here who is currently loving the state of the transport industry.

I’ve recently come back to the UK after a decade abroad just to earn a few shekels to put towards my state pension and bulk it up a bit, which seemed a good idea, but I don’t recognize the country anymore. Not just the economy which is run on a minimum wage, but also socially, it’s been a massive culture shock. To those of us who are older and knew the days before EU open borders, rulings and directives, you’ll know what I mean. To those who are younger, it wasn’t always like this.
The good jobs have been filled and no one is in a hurry to leave them. The c**p jobs no one else wants are ten a penny, as are the tens of thousands of agencies who are offering them. You’re not a driver anymore, you’re a number in a world of transport planners stress and chaos.

For years we’ve been screwed by British politicians and the EU, by the same politicians who want us to remain that way. It’s not an opinion. Look at the amount of foreign drivers now in the transport industry. Look at the amount of foreign trucks on the road. You’re lucky to find an empty space on motorways to take your break at nights because they’re full of Polish and Romanian trucks. The British transport industry is a dead man walking and it’s only the politicians who are left wondering why all those with a licence aren’t using them anymore. Come on, be honest, if we were all in our twenties again which one of us would currently consider driving trucks as a long term career? You honestly can’t see the correlation between 20 years ago and the difference when we were dragged into the EU? The ■■■■■■■■■■ of the British transport industry by the East Europeans didn’t happen by magic.

Yes, it sounds like a major gripe and it is. If another job comes up outside the transport industry at anything like the hourly rate I’m now getting I’ll snap it up.

There is no collective consciousness anymore. Unions are toothless tigers. Labour/ socialist / left wing politicians ( whatever you want to call them) used to fight for wages, housing & Jobs now seem to be more interested in equality, gender issues & immigration.
Thus leaving the worker to fight out out for ■■■■ poor wages.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

Rjan:
The reality is that the vast majority of consumers do not sit around scheming ways to force down their own pay at work.

Consumers could not even possibly be expected to know whether the supermarket selling cheap goods was doing so as a result of attacks on their own wages at work, or as a result of better investment or organisation, or even as a result of lower profits. Consumers have no right to inspect records, to demand data, or to inspect private areas and question staff.

Awwwwwwww…ok. When you go to the store to buy a say, a t-shirt, do you look for a) brand b) price c) quality? Don’t tell me because it doesn’t matter what you do. What matters is what the vast majority of buyers are and have been doing for the last 2 decades or so. Go to a clothing store, any clothing store bar the top of the (price) range ones - and find me a piece of clothing that was made in the UK/EU. Yeh, good luck. Used to be all made in China but nowadays since labor costs in China have been going up they’re all coming from poorer countries like Vietnam and Bangladesh. Quality? Nah. Brand? Big Brands used to equal quality, now - it’s all about the price tag, all same ■■■■ made by some overworked kid or elderly woman on a 14 hour shift for a £1-2/daily wage. Lower price = more sales; more sales = more profit. Doesn’t take a Harvard economist to figure it out. If they were to make these here paying UK minimal wage we’d be looking at prices x10 or more, not many would spend £30-50 on a t-shirt.

DF40:
There is no collective consciousness anymore. Unions are toothless tigers. Labour/ socialist / left wing politicians ( whatever you want to call them) used to fight for wages, housing & Jobs now seem to be more interested in equality, gender issues & immigration.
Thus leaving the worker to fight out out for ■■■■ poor wages.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

That about sums it up DF. Labour led us into the biggest boom and bust in recent history and the Tories continued the downward spiral by leading us into the EU. Politicians did what politicians do; look after themselves. The EU is a breeding ground for these parasites and understandably, even now many of them want to keep us in it. There’s supposed to be a shortage of drivers, but not a shortage of agencies making a killing from a gig economy and we’re the losers.

Grandpa:

Rjan:

But I’m not clearly seeing where all the EU bureaucracy is.

The EU rules, directives and laws are the bureaucracy.

But all laws and rules are a form of “bureaucracy”. The point is they usually have a function, and basically every EU rule has some domestic predecessor - whether it be drivers hours rules (Road Traffic Act 1930), working time directives (various collective bargaining rules and de facto norms imposed by workers), safety directives (Health and Safety Act 1976) the list is endless.

So to be clear, I’m not asking for the problem in abstract. I want to know what laws you have in mind that we should actually abolish (not just at the EU level, but abolish altogether)?

How do you think we managed to get into the gig economy low paid mess we’re in now? Do you think British politicians under the Tories and Labour managed to do that all on their own? Regulations and greed feed off each other. Do you think it’s any better in Europe? The German and French economies are stagnating and we’re stuck in a foreign labour low wage gig economy. The whole EU thing is falling apart and the only people benefitting are the East Europeans. Find me one person here who is currently loving the state of the transport industry.

The gig economy is not caused by regulations but by the absence of them.

…For years we’ve been screwed by British politicians and the EU, by the same politicians who want us to remain that way. It’s not an opinion. Look at the amount of foreign drivers now in the transport industry. Look at the amount of foreign trucks on the road. You’re lucky to find an empty space on motorways to take your break at nights because they’re full of Polish and Romanian trucks. The British transport industry is a dead man walking and it’s only the politicians who are left wondering why all those with a licence aren’t using them anymore. Come on, be honest, if we were all in our twenties again which one of us would currently consider driving trucks as a long term career? You honestly can’t see the correlation between 20 years ago and the difference when we were dragged into the EU? The ■■■■■■■■■■ of the British transport industry by the East Europeans didn’t happen by magic.

Yes, it sounds like a major gripe and it is. If another job comes up outside the transport industry at anything like the hourly rate I’m now getting I’ll snap it up.

And I agree with all your points so far as we are talking about the four freedoms of the single market. But those “freedoms” entail the absence of regulations on the market - subjecting people to the raw power of the market, and the complete opposite of a sticky web of regulations and bureaucracy.

I’m asking you what EU regulations - other than obviously the fundamental tenets of the single market which enforce the so-called market “freedoms” (and prevent regulations being imposed on that market, like capital controls, tariffs, and constraints on the employment of foreign work-seekers) - do you actually object to?

If it is simply the single market itself that you’re opposed to, then just say that (and I agree with you), because opposition to the freedoms of the EU single market, doesn’t mean being opposed to the principle of EU regulations like the WTD.

Grandpa:

Rjan:

Grandpa:
Rjan

You could try to find excuses for evermore, but the reality is that in recent years drivers have seen an ever rising EU bureaucracy and a corresponding rise in practices by companies to reduce the costs involved. We now live in a ‘gig economy’ and that wasn’t happening before – using cheap foreign labour is a simply a reaction to that. The longer we stay in the EU, the more the transport industry will be taken over by cheap foreign labour because a minimum wage is a good one to someone from Romania.

The WTD 2003/88/EC is an EU directive. The legal requirement of open borders which attracts cheap labour is an EU ruling. Both Labour and the Tories dragged us into all this and the majority of people voted for it to end because we’ve seen the results. Both the German and French economies are stagnating and despite all the hype, I’m personally waiting for the next recession which will be the excuse for the hourly rate to drop even further. Eventually the minimum wage and the current hourly drivers rate will meet somewhere in the middle in an unhappy medium. Getting dragged into the EU by politicians was the worst thing that ever happened to the British working class and we didn’t even vote for it.

And I agree with your points about the single market. Freedom of movement of capital, goods, services, and people across democratic boundaries are not in workers’ interests

But I’m not clearly seeing where all the EU bureaucracy is.

If we set aside matters of payroll and minimum working conditions which I’ve already addressed (by pointing out they merely reflect strictures that already existed previously in domestic law - drivers’ hours rules go back to the Road Traffic Act 1930 iirc), I’m struggling to think of any other examples.

The EU rules, directives and laws are the bureaucracy. How do you think we managed to get into the gig economy low paid mess we’re in now? Do you think British politicians under the Tories and Labour managed to do that all on their own? Regulations and greed feed off each other. Do you think it’s any better in Europe? The German and French economies are stagnating and we’re stuck in a foreign labour low wage gig economy. The whole EU thing is falling apart and the only people benefitting are the East Europeans. Find me one person here who is currently loving the state of the transport industry.

I’ve recently come back to the UK after a decade abroad just to earn a few shekels to put towards my state pension and bulk it up a bit, which seemed a good idea, but I don’t recognize the country anymore. Not just the economy which is run on a minimum wage, but also socially, it’s been a massive culture shock. To those of us who are older and knew the days before EU open borders, rulings and directives, you’ll know what I mean. To those who are younger, it wasn’t always like this.
The good jobs have been filled and no one is in a hurry to leave them. The c**p jobs no one else wants are ten a penny, as are the tens of thousands of agencies who are offering them. You’re not a driver anymore, you’re a number in a world of transport planners stress and chaos.

For years we’ve been screwed by British politicians and the EU, by the same politicians who want us to remain that way. It’s not an opinion. Look at the amount of foreign drivers now in the transport industry. Look at the amount of foreign trucks on the road. You’re lucky to find an empty space on motorways to take your break at nights because they’re full of Polish and Romanian trucks. The British transport industry is a dead man walking and it’s only the politicians who are left wondering why all those with a licence aren’t using them anymore. Come on, be honest, if we were all in our twenties again which one of us would currently consider driving trucks as a long term career? You honestly can’t see the correlation between 20 years ago and the difference when we were dragged into the EU? The ■■■■■■■■■■ of the British transport industry by the East Europeans didn’t happen by magic.

Yes, it sounds like a major gripe and it is. If another job comes up outside the transport industry at anything like the hourly rate I’m now getting I’ll snap it up.

I’m the last person to defend the EU but the Swedish road transport industry seems to manage at least in terms of the quality of work which goes with the territory of it’s more relaxed national vehicle dimensions and gross weights regime.So there’s nothing stopping us going along that route at least.

As for hours regs yes tachos are actually counter productive in that they are more likely to be used by employers to enforce maxing out the stupidly complicated and excessive EU permitted hours.Than being of any help to drivers in getting rest and breaks where and when and as they need them ideally without the guvnor’s knowledge without them under domestic regs.On that note contrary to Rjan’s case the EU does nothing of any good for the industry or drivers and we could create a more thriving industry,and a more driver friendly environment without its meddling.Also bearing in mind that Brit union powers have been decimated on the EU’s watch being of no help there.Usually on the basis of Brit workers need to be competitive with the harder working Germans.On that note the way I heard it tachos were actually invented by the Germans to keep an eye on the productivety of drivers as part of ■■■■ Party economic policy.

Rjan:
If it is simply the single market itself that you’re opposed to, then just say that (and I agree with you), because opposition to the freedoms of the EU single market, doesn’t mean being opposed to the principle of EU regulations like the WTD.

The WTD ain’t much use when an employer can use the tacho to enforce a 45 minute break where and when he wants it taken and a 9 hour daily rest period between shifts including commuting time.Nor is it much use when hourly rates are subject to the downward pressures created by the single transport and labour markets.

In all cases we’ve shown that we can do it all better by going it alone and making up our own rules to suit ourselves not what the bleedin Krauts tell us to do.

Carryfast:
On that note the way I heard it tachos were actually invented by the Germans to keep an eye on the productivety of drivers as part of ■■■■ Party economic policy.

They were used for that purpose but the first tachograph was actually invented in Poland in 1912 (ish).

Just some pointless waffle for you all :slight_smile:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
If it is simply the single market itself that you’re opposed to, then just say that (and I agree with you), because opposition to the freedoms of the EU single market, doesn’t mean being opposed to the principle of EU regulations like the WTD.

The WTD ain’t much use when an employer can use the tacho to enforce a 45 minute break where and when he wants it taken and a 9 hour daily rest period between shifts including commuting time.Nor is it much use when hourly rates are subject to the downward pressures created by the single transport and labour markets.

I’m not suggesting it is of great use, in that I’m not suggesting that it addresses every possible aspect of working time problems.

But clearly you want more, and stricter, regulations. Your complaint isn’t about bureaucracy and red-tape, but the absence of it.

In all cases we’ve shown that we can do it all better by going it alone and making up our own rules to suit ourselves not what the bleedin Krauts tell us to do.

We already can do better. There is nothing, so far as I’m aware, that stops Britain implementing more stringent rules than the WTD.

It already has in fact, in that it gives workers 5.6 weeks holiday when the WTD only requires 4.

This is as ludicrous as the “blue passports” argument, where people find some imaginary restriction to complain about, and it turns out that the British government had the freedom to do it all along.

Like I say, the problem is clearly with the single market itself, in that it stops us having capital controls, stops us having tariffs, and stops us restricting the movement of work-seekers, all of which are necessary to stop bosses abusing the marketplace and playing countries off against one another (including EU member states).

As you know, I’m not against the development of an EU political union. I’m against the existence of a single market in the absence of effective political control over the market, and the single market must be abolished until such time as there is a clear socialist-oriented political union that has already equalised the economies of its members. And if people don’t want that or it can’t be achieved, then the whole thing must go.

Rjan:
Like I say, the problem is clearly with the single market itself, in that it stops us having capital controls, stops us having tariffs, and stops us restricting the movement of work-seekers, all of which are necessary to stop bosses abusing the marketplace and playing countries off against one another (including EU member states).

The single market this, the single market that…I don’t hear anyone complaining about that ■■■■ single market allowing people abroad to buy more Jaguars and R.Rovers (no import duty/extra VAT) or any other UK made goods. The fact that the UK can’t get its ■■■■ together and compete with ze Germans and de French is no one else’s fault really.

ETS:

Rjan:
Like I say, the problem is clearly with the single market itself, in that it stops us having capital controls, stops us having tariffs, and stops us restricting the movement of work-seekers, all of which are necessary to stop bosses abusing the marketplace and playing countries off against one another (including EU member states).

The single market this, the single market that…I don’t hear anyone complaining about that ■■■■ single market allowing people abroad to buy more Jaguars and R.Rovers (no import duty/extra VAT) or any other UK made goods. The fact that the UK can’t get its [zb] together and compete with ze Germans and de French is no one else’s fault really.

I agree. But the quid pro quo of exporting Jaguars is that we have to import BMWs without duty or extra VAT, so it’s more or less a zero sum game for workers.

The vast majority of manufacturers have a variety of competing models and constant aesthetic changes, so there is no extra manufacturing scale gained or reduction in design and retooling costs - it’s not like for example Britain is specialising in large cars and the Germans in small cars. We’re both still doing both, and what we gain on export we lose on import.

Competition laws also prevent companies consolidating into standardised, efficient, and refined production lines with extremely large scale, which would reduce the relative costs of vehicles (and the cost of the wide variety of second-hand parts and the skill to maintain and repair vehicles) against the wages paid to manufacturing workers.

It may allow a wider variety of consumer choice, but most people want that in addition to secure jobs and lowish prices, not instead of them. When we gain consumer choice at the expense of pay and conditions, the bosses get to indulge their aesthetic fripperies and whimsical choices whilst most of us cannot afford Jags at all.

This is why I’ve changed my views on the EU, because it’s not creating efficiencies and the export market it creates is not like the days of empire when Britain was exporting finished goods to economies that could not produce them themselves, we’re competing with our economic peers in a zero-sum game, within EU market rules that enforce competition and disallow monopoly, and all that’s doing is forcing down workers’ wages, boosting profits for the rich, and stopping any member government from doing anything about it.

Even the poorest members of the EU now have car factories producing extremely good vehicles and parts - all they’re doing is competing with the richer members on workers’ wages.

Competition laws also prevent companies consolidating into standardised, efficient, and refined production lines with extremely large scale, which would reduce the relative costs of vehicles (and the cost of the wide variety of second-hand parts and the skill to maintain and repair vehicles) against the wages paid to manufacturing workers.

That’s untrue…rival car makers share ‘common platforms’ and engines ie Ford and Fiat, Mitsubishi and PSA. My old Volvo V40 was built in what had been a DAF factory in Holland alongside a Mitsubishi, sharing chassis platform and engines.

Even the poorest members of the EU now have car factories producing extremely good vehicles and parts - all they’re doing is competing with the richer members on workers’ wages.

That will happen whether we are in the EU or out. The trick for an advanced economy like the UK is to keep hold of the high-value work like R&D, and put the assembly work (which is increasingly automated anyway) in a location with competitive wages and close to the market.

Example: I’ve just ridden a rather nice brand new Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 motorcycle. It was mostly engineered in the UK, and built in India. Triumphs equally are engineered in the UK and mostly assembled in Thailand.

Rjan:
Competition laws also prevent companies consolidating into standardised, efficient, and refined production lines with extremely large scale, which would reduce the relative costs of vehicles (and the cost of the wide variety of second-hand parts and the skill to maintain and repair vehicles) against the wages paid to manufacturing workers.

So abominations like FIAT and Volkswagen exist outside these laws? :open_mouth:

True, many EE countries now host car factories which were once located in Germany/France which means the workers there make more money as these jobs generally pay very well, thus are now able to afford to buy these cars that they manufacture bringing in profits to the German/French car makers which they can use to fund R&D in their own countries which pay 10x more than what an assembly worker at Skoda gets or to acquire other, failing companies (like JLR or GM but they seem to be so bad no one wants them) or fund research of electric vehicles etc etc.