Saviem:
But the T45? Perhaps the swan song of the British industry…I can only speak from personal experience, 85 pieces, TL12, and ■■■■■■■ powered, significantly cheaper to operate on similar work than both F10 Volvo, and P112 Scania, (120,000/ 200,000kms pa trunking, 36 month, and 60 month contract period, UK based, own account operation. Met their Guaranteed residual values without penalty, and never exceeded their forecast budget, (unlike both the Swedish products)!. In my opinion perhaps the most under valued, and under developed, (thanks to the gift of Leyland to DAF, by that idiot Channon), range of commercial vehicles to eminate from a UK manufacturer. The range had potential in Europe, (and world wide), but our clog wearing bretherin were quick to stullify any future potential…while peeing the potential value up the wall . Quickly realised by the astute Piggot family, who grabbed themselves yet another bargain buy!
Not having driven any British built long haul wagons, obviously any opinion I might have about them is worthless. But when I saw this subject crop up my first thought was “T45”. Other than a short demo drive in a Cruiser (daft name for a lorry if you ask me) way back in the dim distant mid-80s I have no real experience with them, but despite that (and a wholly irrational dislike of them at the time) as I’ve got older I’ve occasionally wondered why the T45 series never got the acclaim many other (and in some respects, inferior) British wagons did. Perhaps your post goes some way to answering that question M. Saviem, in that its full potential was never realised nor even properly exploited. As to the world beyond Europe, from what I can gather quite a few T45s were exported (presumably as CKD kits?) to SA and even UnZud, where some are still at work: flickr.com/photos/24467251@N … 026310@N21
Saviem:
But the T45? Perhaps the swan song of the British industry…I can only speak from personal experience, 85 pieces, TL12, and ■■■■■■■ powered, significantly cheaper to operate on similar work than both F10 Volvo, and P112 Scania, (120,000/ 200,000kms pa trunking, 36 month, and 60 month contract period, UK based, own account operation. Met their Guaranteed residual values without penalty, and never exceeded their forecast budget, (unlike both the Swedish products)!. In my opinion perhaps the most under valued, and under developed, (thanks to the gift of Leyland to DAF, by that idiot Channon), range of commercial vehicles to eminate from a UK manufacturer. The range had potential in Europe, (and world wide), but our clog wearing bretherin were quick to stullify any future potential…while peeing the potential value up the wall . Quickly realised by the astute Piggot family, who grabbed themselves yet another bargain buy!
Not having driven any British built long haul wagons, obviously any opinion I might have about them is worthless. But when I saw this subject crop up my first thought was “T45”. Other than a short demo drive in a Cruiser (daft name for a lorry if you ask me) way back in the dim distant mid-80s I have no real experience with them, but despite that (and a wholly irrational dislike of them at the time) as I’ve got older I’ve occasionally wondered why the T45 series never got the acclaim many other (and in some respects, inferior) British wagons did. Perhaps your post goes some way to answering that question M. Saviem, in that its full potential was never realised nor even properly exploited. As to the world beyond Europe, from what I can gather quite a few T45s were exported (presumably as CKD kits?) to SA and even UnZud, where some are still at work: flickr.com/photos/24467251@N … 026310@N21
One of the more spectacular T45s on long-haul work was Bob Poggiani’s 6x4 Scammell version with which he regularly tackled the Middle-East run with an Astran tilt. Robert
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
On the subject of the Bedford TM , I am reliably informed the model fitted with the V8 Detroit was an absolute beast of a truck although it liked its diesel, the truck pictured belonged to Aberdeen based owner driver George McCombie. I know George well and he can tell a story or two about how it could romp up the Berriedale Brae with 20 tons of pipes on its back without breaking into a sweat. I know of firms though that run narrow cab versions with Bedfords own engine that they say you had to switch the headlights out in case it seen a hill coming!!!
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Here’s mine all ours were Gardner powered they gave us great service and did enormous mileage with little engine trouble
Most were kept for 10 years plus. Some were still in service at 14 years old
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Here’s mine all ours were Gardner powered they gave us great service and did enormous mileage with little engine trouble
Most were kept for 10 years plus. Some were still in service at 14 years old 0
aye and they probably returned about 13-14 mpg too
rivits:
On the subject of the Bedford TM , I am reliably informed the model fitted with the V8 Detroit was an absolute beast of a truck although it liked its diesel, the truck pictured belonged to Aberdeen based owner driver George McCombie. I know George well and he can tell a story or two about how it could romp up the Berriedale Brae with 20 tons of pipes on its back without breaking into a sweat. I know of firms though that run narrow cab versions with Bedfords own engine that they say you had to switch the headlights out in case it seen a hill coming!!!
One of my aquaintances ran a wide cab version with E290 ■■■■■■■ and 9-speed Fuller. He could keep up with a couple of us in F88s and would use only half of the fuel. Very under-rated lorries, in my opinion.
rivits:
On the subject of the Bedford TM , I am reliably informed the model fitted with the V8 Detroit was an absolute beast of a truck although it liked its diesel, the truck pictured belonged to Aberdeen based owner driver George McCombie. I know George well and he can tell a story or two about how it could romp up the Berriedale Brae with 20 tons of pipes on its back without breaking into a sweat. I know of firms though that run narrow cab versions with Bedfords own engine that they say you had to switch the headlights out in case it seen a hill coming!!!
One of my aquaintances ran a wide cab version with E290 ■■■■■■■ and 9-speed Fuller. He could keep up with a couple of us in F88s and would use only half of the fuel. Very under-rated lorries, in my opinion.
I think they were only gutless with the Bedford 500 engine, they were pushing it big time with a ■■■■■■■ 10 litre in its last couple of years, it certainly in wide cab form was a cracking looking truck, G&M Transport in Airdrie run a TM 16 ton rigid with a narrow cab (ex Hoover I think ) I never drove it but it looked good.
rivits:
On the subject of the Bedford TM , I am reliably informed the model fitted with the V8 Detroit was an absolute beast of a truck although it liked its diesel, the truck pictured belonged to Aberdeen based owner driver George McCombie. I know George well and he can tell a story or two about how it could romp up the Berriedale Brae with 20 tons of pipes on its back without breaking into a sweat. I know of firms though that run narrow cab versions with Bedfords own engine that they say you had to switch the headlights out in case it seen a hill coming!!!
One of my aquaintances ran a wide cab version with E290 ■■■■■■■ and 9-speed Fuller. He could keep up with a couple of us in F88s and would use only half of the fuel. Very under-rated lorries, in my opinion.
rivits:
On the subject of the Bedford TM , I am reliably informed the model fitted with the V8 Detroit was an absolute beast of a truck although it liked its diesel, the truck pictured belonged to Aberdeen based owner driver George McCombie. I know George well and he can tell a story or two about how it could romp up the Berriedale Brae with 20 tons of pipes on its back without breaking into a sweat. I know of firms though that run narrow cab versions with Bedfords own engine that they say you had to switch the headlights out in case it seen a hill coming!!!
One of my aquaintances ran a wide cab version with E290 ■■■■■■■ and 9-speed Fuller. He could keep up with a couple of us in F88s and would use only half of the fuel. Very under-rated lorries, in my opinion.
We used to do a changeover on a Saturday morning at Birtley services with a firm called Dobbs of Edinburgh they ran ■■■■■■■ powered wide cabbed TM Bedfords they looked cracking motors
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Here’s mine all ours were Gardner powered they gave us great service and did enormous mileage with little engine trouble
Most were kept for 10 years plus. Some were still in service at 14 years old 0
aye and they probably returned about 13-14 mpg too
. The trunk motors would probably of got some of those figures but our tramping ones I know from personal experience reached the early 9s to mid 9s and that was running 38 and 32 tonnes
Lilladan:
The Gardner versions were best on fuel giving around 7 to 7.5 MPG
Why how many did you run?
All our lorries on our fleet were strictly monitored for fuel consumption as in most large fleets fuel was our biggest cost
And they were all purchased outright we had many dealers knocking on our door asking us to try out many different makes of lorries
We ran demos for 6 months to give them a fair trial but no other lorry whether it was Swedish German French Italian or Dutch could match the Gardner for fuel economy
Whether a Gardner was fitted in to an ERF or Seddon Atkinson which were the mainstay of our fleet
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Here’s mine all ours were Gardner powered they gave us great service and did enormous mileage with little engine trouble
Most were kept for 10 years plus. Some were still in service at 14 years old 0
aye and they probably returned about 13-14 mpg too
. The trunk motors would probably of got some of those figures but our tramping ones I know from personal experience reached the early 9s to mid 9s and that was running 38 and 32 tonnes
My apologies I didn’t have my contact lenses in regarding MPG that of read early 8s to mid 8s some did manage the 9 plus to the gallon
Lilladan:
I have seen massive surveys that put the best British trucks as Bedford TM and Leyland roadtrain T45 with running costs and productivity (but not comfort) as good as Volvo, this was in the mid 1980`s, a time when in the U.K. Scania was slowly making progress but still only selling half that of Volvo and Scania was a long way behind in the sales figs , I.E. 1, Volvo then most British then DAF and the other importers and ERF near bottom
The Seddon Atkinson 401 was the the top selling tractor unit in the mid 80s
Good motor is was too with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ in it, flying machines
Here’s mine all ours were Gardner powered they gave us great service and did enormous mileage with little engine trouble
Most were kept for 10 years plus. Some were still in service at 14 years old 0
aye and they probably returned about 13-14 mpg too
. The trunk motors would probably of got some of those figures but our tramping ones I know from personal experience reached the early 9s to mid 9s and that was running 38 and 32 tonnes
My apologies I didn’t have my contact lenses in regarding MPG that should of read early 8s to mid 8s some did manage the 9 plus to the gallon
OUR English divisions at Harwich , Grimsby and North Shieds had many Gardners 180 but most 240 even at only 16 to 32 ton returned 7 to 8 mpg at the most in Seddon -Atkinson , ERF slightly better , the 240 was 255 hp but performed like a 180 , transmission not matched ? Expensive Engine to buy , Sedd Aks bak axel and clutch bad on 400
Lilladan:
OUR English divisions at Harwich , Grimsby and North Shieds had many Gardners 180 but most 240 even at only 16 to 32 ton returned 7 to 8 mpg at the most in Seddon -Atkinson , ERF slightly better , the 240 was 255 hp but performed like a 180 , transmission not matched ? Expensive Engine to buy , Sedd Aks bak axel and clutch bad on 400
As I’ve previously stated most of our lorries were kept up to 10 years
All of the trunk motors were double trunked some tripled trunked 6 days a week
They covered enormous mileages with superb fuel economy that’s why we bought them
The premium price of buying a Gardner was more than offset with longevity and fuel economy
Regarding clutch problems if you knew how to drive a DB or Eaton/ Fuller box properly you only used your clutch for starting and stopping
So again we had few clutch problems but we did suffer hub seal problems with the group axle
Going back to the original topic we were asked which were the best British built long haul lorries that’s why I’ve put on this thread my own opinion and from my own experience
Lilladan:
OUR English divisions at Harwich , Grimsby and North Shieds had many Gardners 180 but most 240 even at only 16 to 32 ton returned 7 to 8 mpg at the most in Seddon -Atkinson , ERF slightly better , the 240 was 255 hp but performed like a 180 , transmission not matched ? Expensive Engine to buy , Sedd Aks bak axel and clutch bad on 400
Just one more thing if your going to quote figures about Gardner engines please put the correct facts in your posts
The “240” you quoted I presume you WERE referring to the 8LXB which was a 240 and the
8XLXC was rated at 265
