interlog:
What I was trying to say is, when you’re on a good number, you keep quite, very quite. You just get on with stuff and keep in the background.
It is not that they are expected to take a wage reduction now isn’t it?
If it’s such a ‘good number’ and terms and conditions aren’t being reduced then why the zb would anyone with any sense want to risk all that and blow all their wages by voting for strike action.Considering the general reliability and safety of the service the industry has provided so far they aren’t exactly a bunch of idiots who’d take such a decision for no reason.
Unless I’ve got it all wrong.
You see Carryfast, the problem is that the Germans ARE worth the money they get paid, they go out to work and do a high quality service for their employers (look at their car industry).
The Brits on the other hand (in the car industry were all called Daryll, Daryll do…) they thought they could sit on their arse all day, produce crap when they could be arsed to do anything and still get paid top dollar for turning up for the day. When the companies they worked for started losing money and needed to reduce costs the workers went on strike, hence no jobs.
I’ve now been in the trucking industry for a very few years, but see the same crap ideals from most of the drivers I meet, no wonder we’re being undermined by the foreigners they come in and do the same crap job as most of us and don’t expect too much money.
What we need is for British truckers to pull up their pants and start taking a pride in what we do, then we will see wages rise all round, not just for the tanker drivers.
This, is absolutely spot-on. ^^ Remember British Leyland and it’s oh-so apt logo? The world doesn’t owe anybody anything, least of all a living.
Think both yours and DoYouMeanMe’s posts have missed (more like ignored) the inconvenient truth of the fact that the same workers who you’re both (trying to) condemn,had only a few years before been part of the 1960’s economic boom although it never reached the same levels here as in the US because as usual wage levels weren’t allowed to rise in line with production levels and cheap imports became a factor sooner than in the States.
You’ve both also conveniently ignored all those posts which I posted regarding the comparison with the US car manufacturing industry which has gone exactly the same way as ours with idiots coming out with the same type of bs as you are to justify the situation.
When all the evidence from the way things stood both here and there during the 1960’s,compared to Germany’s output,and the value for money of it’s products by comparison,proves you all wrong.Although it’s my bet that neither of you have even seen the inside of a British factory during the time in question let alone zb worked in one
Okay, you are again placing your own interpretation on other people’s posts and reposting them. You are misrepresenting me and others by twisting our words and applying your unique version of logic to them.
I just want that on the record.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?
Do you now or have you ever worked in the transport industry?
Do you believe that the world is run by the illuminati?
DoYouMeanMe?:
Steady economic growth needs a decent product, sold for a reasonable profit and a gentle year on year increase in the wealth of the company/nation.
The US and British industries (and therefore economies) actually failed because instead of just carrying on through the 1970’s and 1980’s as they were during the 1960’s BUT paying their workers German 1970’s/80’s type wages not British or US ones,they went down the opposite route of wage cutting and job cuts.Which had totally the opposite effect of the type of Fordist economics that had built the 1960’s boom.
However it’s a bit silly to base your whole economic ideas on the failures of one British motorbike manufacturer considering that the issue didn’t apply when it came to products like the Jag XJ12 compared to a 3 Litre BMW let alone the type of products which I was involved with which the zb Germans weren’t even in the game let alone beating us,just as applied to their car industry during the 1960’s compared to ours and the Americans’.However that didn’t stop German workers being paid more than I was and those who I worked with during the 1970’s and before that time.
As for house prices,like all prices the relevant bit is the relationship between incomes and prices.The problem with house price rises as in all others was one of wages failing to keep pace with inflation and prices.If you’re calling for price controls as a way of putting a brake on inflation that’s exactly what I’ve been saying as a supporter of Shore’s policies.However what we’ve actually had since Callaghan’s time is the stupid idea of wage restraint being used to (try to) control price led inflation and obviously failing.
interlog:
What I was trying to say is, when you’re on a good number, you keep quite, very quite. You just get on with stuff and keep in the background.
It is not that they are expected to take a wage reduction now isn’t it?
If it’s such a ‘good number’ and terms and conditions aren’t being reduced then why the zb would anyone with any sense want to risk all that and blow all their wages by voting for strike action.Considering the general reliability and safety of the service the industry has provided so far they aren’t exactly a bunch of idiots who’d take such a decision for no reason.
Unless I’ve got it all wrong.
You see Carryfast, the problem is that the Germans ARE worth the money they get paid, they go out to work and do a high quality service for their employers (look at their car industry).
The Brits on the other hand (in the car industry were all called Daryll, Daryll do…) they thought they could sit on their arse all day, produce crap when they could be arsed to do anything and still get paid top dollar for turning up for the day. When the companies they worked for started losing money and needed to reduce costs the workers went on strike, hence no jobs.
I’ve now been in the trucking industry for a very few years, but see the same crap ideals from most of the drivers I meet, no wonder we’re being undermined by the foreigners they come in and do the same crap job as most of us and don’t expect too much money.
What we need is for British truckers to pull up their pants and start taking a pride in what we do, then we will see wages rise all round, not just for the tanker drivers.
This, is absolutely spot-on. ^^ Remember British Leyland and it’s oh-so apt logo? The world doesn’t owe anybody anything, least of all a living.
Think both yours and DoYouMeanMe’s posts have missed (more like ignored) the inconvenient truth of the fact that the same workers who you’re both (trying to) condemn,had only a few years before been part of the 1960’s economic boom although it never reached the same levels here as in the US because as usual wage levels weren’t allowed to rise in line with production levels and cheap imports became a factor sooner than in the States.
You’ve both also conveniently ignored all those posts which I posted regarding the comparison with the US car manufacturing industry which has gone exactly the same way as ours with idiots coming out with the same type of bs as you are to justify the situation.
When all the evidence from the way things stood both here and there during the 1960’s,compared to Germany’s output,and the value for money of it’s products by comparison,proves you all wrong.Although it’s my bet that neither of you have even seen the inside of a British factory during the time in question let alone zb worked in one
Okay, you are again placing your own interpretation on other people’s posts and reposting them. You are misrepresenting me and others by twisting our words and applying your unique version of logic to them.
I just want that on the record.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?
Do you now or have you ever worked in the transport industry?
Do you believe that the world is run by the illuminati?
Bonus question, do you think of the children?
(1) No.I was interested in their ideas but I decided that they are misguided idiots from the age of around 16.
(2) Yes
(3) Who the zb cares just so long as the they put the western economies back to where the US one was during the 1960’s in real terms.
I don’t think I’ve twisted any of your comments in the sense that you seemed to be supporting the situation,that I raised, concerning the differences between the way in which the German economy was being run,during the 1970’s/80’s, to the way in which both the US and British ones were.Which roughly translated to support for the situation of high wages and jobs for German workers and wage cuts and job cuts for British and US ones ? .
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Happydaze:
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Won’t somebody think of die kinder?
As far as I know the Mk IX Spitfires built at Castle Bromwich and a few others before that built at Southampton and many other factories around the country stopped the zb’s in their tracks .It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
While I don’t remember those Bavarians ever having the know how to beat the value for money or production levels of British built cars let alone US built ones during the 1960’s.However your same bs was used just the same against US workers as the British ones when the US and British governments and bankers decided to turn against their own people unlike ze Germans.
Although your comments sound more like a laugh and a wind up to me because there’s no way that you can be serious in believing that ze Germans are really ze master race they’d like to think they are.They just got lucky with the bankers and their governments since ze var that’s all.
Happydaze:
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Won’t somebody think of die kinder?
As far as I know the Mk IX Spitfires built at Castle Bromwich and a few others before that built at Southampton and many other factories around the country stopped the zb’s in their tracks .It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
While I don’t remember those Bavarians ever having the know how to beat the value for money or production levels of British built cars let alone US built ones during the 1960’s.However your same bs was used just the same against US workers as the British ones when the US and British governments and bankers decided to turn against their own people unlike ze Germans.
Not quite. I was referring to the Rote Armee Fraktion (RAF) of which Dieter Kunzelmann was loosely affiliated. I wrongly assumed that the Germanic name would have made that obvious to you. After all there can’t have been many German pilots in the Royal Air Force during WW2.
Now for you to deny twisting my words after writing a paragraph in reply to me which is thirty-odd years, two countries and hundreds of miles wide of the mark, looks a bit disingenuous to me.
Happydaze:
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Won’t somebody think of die kinder?
As far as I know the Mk IX Spitfires built at Castle Bromwich and a few others before that built at Southampton and many other factories around the country stopped the zb’s in their tracks .It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
While I don’t remember those Bavarians ever having the know how to beat the value for money or production levels of British built cars let alone US built ones during the 1960’s.However your same bs was used just the same against US workers as the British ones when the US and British governments and bankers decided to turn against their own people unlike ze Germans.
Not quite. I was referring to the Rote Armee Fraktion (RAF) of which Dieter Kunzelmann was loosely affiliated. I wrongly assumed that the Germanic name would have made that obvious to you. After all there can’t have been many German pilots in the Royal Air Force during WW2.
Now for you to deny twisting my words after writing a paragraph in reply to me which is thirty-odd years, two countries and hundreds of miles wide of the mark, looks a bit disingenuous to me.
Ho ho ho Chi Minh!
How have I twisted your words when,if I’ve read it right,you’ve stated agreement with the idea of German workers being paid more than their British counterparts doing similar jobs being justified .
As I said British workers in British factories,let alone American workers in US factories,have shown more than once through history that they can stop the advance of German industrial power in it’s tracks by producing better value for money products in greater numbers.It’s just a shame that we didn’t have the type of post war government and banking system that the Germans had since the 1970’s which has (rightly) followed in the Fordist agenda not a Moneterist Gavyn Davies/Callaghan/Thatcherite one.
As for the German ‘RAF’ I’ve already said what I think of left wing nutters.
But what the zb has the German red army fraktion got to do with any of that.
Happydaze:
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Won’t somebody think of die kinder?
As far as I know the Mk IX Spitfires built at Castle Bromwich and a few others before that built at Southampton and many other factories around the country stopped the zb’s in their tracks .It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
While I don’t remember those Bavarians ever having the know how to beat the value for money or production levels of British built cars let alone US built ones during the 1960’s.However your same bs was used just the same against US workers as the British ones when the US and British governments and bankers decided to turn against their own people unlike ze Germans.
Not quite. I was referring to the Rote Armee Fraktion (RAF) of which Dieter Kunzelmann was loosely affiliated. I wrongly assumed that the Germanic name would have made that obvious to you. After all there can’t have been many German pilots in the Royal Air Force during WW2.
Now for you to deny twisting my words after writing a paragraph in reply to me which is thirty-odd years, two countries and hundreds of miles wide of the mark, looks a bit disingenuous to me.
Ho ho ho Chi Minh!
How have I twisted your words when,if I’ve read it right,you’ve stated agreement with the idea of German workers being paid more than their British counterparts doing similar jobs being justified .
As I said British workers in British factories,let alone American workers in US factories,have shown more than once through history that they can stop the advance of German industrial power in it’s tracks by producing better value for money products in greater numbers.It’s just a shame that we didn’t have the type of post war government and banking system that the Germans had since the 1970’s which has (rightly) followed in the Fordist agenda not a Moneterist Gavyn Davies/Callaghan/Thatcherite one.
As for the German ‘RAF’ I’ve already said what I think of left wing nutters.
But what the zb has the German red army fraktion got to do with any of that.
Happydaze:
So, the RAF it is then. Do you have the same problem as Dieter Kunzelmann did?
You appear to be more concerned about German workers than British ones. I’ll let you in on a secret: Germany runs Europe. It has done since the Holy Roman Empire (which admittedly was hardly Holy or an Empire, but that’s another debate).
Nothing that a bunch of layabout, unionised, disenfranchised factory workers from Longbridge, Coventry or anywhere else in the UK could do was ever going to stop the inevitable economic advance of millions of empowered and disciplined Bavarians.
Won’t somebody think of die kinder?
As far as I know the Mk IX Spitfires built at Castle Bromwich and a few others before that built at Southampton and many other factories around the country stopped the zb’s in their tracks .It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
While I don’t remember those Bavarians ever having the know how to beat the value for money or production levels of British built cars let alone US built ones during the 1960’s.However your same bs was used just the same against US workers as the British ones when the US and British governments and bankers decided to turn against their own people unlike ze Germans.
Not quite. I was referring to the Rote Armee Fraktion (RAF) of which Dieter Kunzelmann was loosely affiliated. I wrongly assumed that the Germanic name would have made that obvious to you. After all there can’t have been many German pilots in the Royal Air Force during WW2.
Now for you to deny twisting my words after writing a paragraph in reply to me which is thirty-odd years, two countries and hundreds of miles wide of the mark, looks a bit disingenuous to me.
Ho ho ho Chi Minh!
How have I twisted your words when,if I’ve read it right,you’ve stated agreement with the idea of German workers being paid more than their British counterparts doing similar jobs being justified .
As I said British workers in British factories,let alone American workers in US factories,have shown more than once through history that they can stop the advance of German industrial power in it’s tracks by producing better value for money products in greater numbers.It’s just a shame that we didn’t have the type of post war government and banking system that the Germans had since the 1970’s which has (rightly) followed in the Fordist agenda not a Moneterist Gavyn Davies/Callaghan/Thatcherite one.
As for the German ‘RAF’ I’ve already said what I think of left wing nutters.
But what the zb has the German red army fraktion got to do with any of that.
“If I’ve read it right”. Indeed.
Logically the idea that ze German car workers ‘are/were’ ever worth the money they were being paid but the Brits and obviously the American ones aren’t/weren’t would obviously require the whole of the economic growth,that took place in the British and US economies,in large part a result of their respective car industry output and sales,between 1960-1970, to be erased from the history books.
We’ll never agree on this one so I’ll leave you to have your views just like I will have mine. I was in and out of the manufacturing plants, making machine for the automation of the process. The problem I came up against time and time again was someone who after 2 days training called himself an Engineer and thought he was worth every bit as much as a time served man or a guy with a degree and more than a timed served man outside of their exclusive club.
An example of two of the machine the factories spent thousands of £££’s on which were blackballed were one that set the two parts of the hatchback, skin and chassis together, fold and spot weld them together ‘properly’ which the humans didn’t seem to be able to do. It was classed as replacing a skilled man. If he had used the skill he was supposed to have, they wouldn’t have needed a machine. This was then sold to an outside company who rented a shed next to the factory and the hatchbacks were then delivered as a complete item so the muppets at the factory lost out doubly!
Another was a machine that ground and de-burred the gearbox selector forks. That was classed as de-skilling the job. Just how much skill they thought they needed to grind the casting marks and burrs off was a joke, hardly college material, but it was classed as a full skills job in the wage negotiations. Again, they ended up losing the casting as well and having finished articles delivered.
I also made many of the machines that were used to build the Fiat Strada (remember the advert of the automated machinery and the Figaro music). The unions and men worked alongside the management there and it was a much better environment.
So people.
What do we really think about the Army doing your job?
General quiz: a light-hearted look at the possible unfolding events;
Is it right that Fuel Companies should “Request”/direct a democratically elected government to authorise the Army to take over deliveries of fuel?
Should Fuel Company profit over-ride Industrial grievance?
If the Army should prove that it can cope with the job…should they continue to do it?
What would you think if the Army took over other jobs in the public/private sector?
Would you be happy with it and accept it as a fact of life as some of you do now?
If they did take over your jobs would you have the same attitude and complacency as you have today?
Would you then turn round and say f*** the tanker drivers as most are at present?
And finally…is your job safe from companies, governments, and the military?
If you do reply please stick to the relevent issues.
No deviating from the main theme of the quiz.
Thank you.
nb: if you agree with the Army doing any other job than they are paid to do…consider yourself a Fascist and bow before Dodgy Dave.
Happydaze:
I’ll tell ye what, Carrryfast, Solly and other sympathisers.
I think you’re all on drugs. You’re good for nothing except contributing to fossil fuels when the dinosaurs need replacing.
I’m joking of course. Good that we have the freedom to mass-debate together don’t you think?
Seemingly, we’re getting nowhere very fast, so you keep your view and I’ll keep mine.
Friends?
Friends■■? Hell yeah.
Anyway drugs are a must… don’t you know that yet?
It is a must to dull the pain of everyday life. It gives you a perspective you wouldn’t imagine otherwise.
It makes you forget the times you had to sit in RDC waiting rooms listening the the boring stories from boring …been there…done it all…hang on I have a solution to the strike that will save the country £milllions.
Suggest to Cameron that there are so many ex-SAS drivers in the private sector that they can do the job.
Let’s face it 100 Ex SAS drivers are worth 2000 Royal Corp of Transport drivers…or whatever they’re called now.
Well that’s what they would have us believe, and they will bore the ■■■■ off the dispatchers. Right.
Happydaze:
I’ll tell ye what, Carrryfast, Solly and other sympathisers.
I think you’re all on drugs. You’re good for nothing except contributing to fossil fuels when the dinosaurs need replacing.
I’m joking of course. Good that we have the freedom to mass-debate together don’t you think?
Seemingly, we’re getting nowhere very fast, so you keep your view and I’ll keep mine.
Friends?
Friends■■? Hell yeah.
Anyway drugs are a must… don’t you know that yet?
It is a must to dull the pain of everyday life. It gives you a perspective you wouldn’t imagine otherwise.
It makes you forget the times you had to sit in RDC waiting rooms listening the the boring stories from boring …been there…done it all…hang on I have a solution to the strike that will save the country £milllions.
Suggest to Cameron that there are so many ex-SAS drivers in the private sector that they can do the job.
Let’s face it 100 Ex SAS drivers are worth 2000 Royal Corp of Transport drivers…or whatever they’re called now.
Well that’s what they would have us believe, and they will bore the ■■■■ off the dispatchers. Right.
DoYouMeanMe?:
We’ll never agree on this one so I’ll leave you to have your views just like I will have mine. I was in and out of the manufacturing plants, making machine for the automation of the process. The problem I came up against time and time again was someone who after 2 days training called himself an Engineer and thought he was worth every bit as much as a time served man or a guy with a degree and more than a timed served man outside of their exclusive club.
An example of two of the machine the factories spent thousands of £££’s on which were blackballed were one that set the two parts of the hatchback, skin and chassis together, fold and spot weld them together ‘properly’ which the humans didn’t seem to be able to do. It was classed as replacing a skilled man. If he had used the skill he was supposed to have, they wouldn’t have needed a machine. This was then sold to an outside company who rented a shed next to the factory and the hatchbacks were then delivered as a complete item so the muppets at the factory lost out doubly!
Another was a machine that ground and de-burred the gearbox selector forks. That was classed as de-skilling the job. Just how much skill they thought they needed to grind the casting marks and burrs off was a joke, hardly college material, but it was classed as a full skills job in the wage negotiations. Again, they ended up losing the casting as well and having finished articles delivered.
I also made many of the machines that were used to build the Fiat Strada (remember the advert of the automated machinery and the Figaro music). The unions and men worked alongside the management there and it was a much better environment.
Happydaze:
I’ll tell ye what, Carrryfast, Solly and other sympathisers.
I think you’re all on drugs. You’re good for nothing except contributing to fossil fuels when the dinosaurs need replacing.
I’m joking of course. Good that we have the freedom to mass-debate together don’t you think?
Seemingly, we’re getting nowhere very fast, so you keep your view and I’ll keep mine.
Friends?
Friends■■? Hell yeah.
Anyway drugs are a must… don’t you know that yet?
It is a must to dull the pain of everyday life. It gives you a perspective you wouldn’t imagine otherwise.
It makes you forget the times you had to sit in RDC waiting rooms listening the the boring stories from boring …been there…done it all…hang on I have a solution to the strike that will save the country £milllions.
That’s sorted then.Rastafarian strike breaking tanker drivers brought in from Jamaica it is.All no smoking signs will be allowed to be removed from all vehicles and at all delivery and collection points for the duration of any strike action.
The Germans had brand new tooling in their brand new factories being serviced by brand new infrastructure paid for by the Marshall Plan. The British workers got bye with patched up worn out crap that should have been replaced during the 1930s.The Yanks bankrupted us by wanting payment for every Flying Fortress and Willys Jeep that saw service or otherwise.What special relationship.
alamcculloch:
The Germans had brand new tooling in their brand new factories being serviced by brand new infrastructure paid for by the Marshall Plan. The British workers got bye with patched up worn out crap that should have been replaced during the 1930s.The Yanks bankrupted us by wanting payment for every Flying Fortress and Willys Jeep that saw service or otherwise.What special relationship.
So obviously we got manufacturing right and the Germans got it wrong?
Don’t get me wrong I think this country [zb] up its manufacturing industry and went wrongly in the direction of “services”. The reason we went that way though was because the unions (and our lazy attitude to work) ruined it for everyone by being greedy. It gave Thatcher the excuse to ruin our industries and give more power to the fat cats in the financial sectors.
By the way New Labour were only slightly to the left of Hitler in their policies and as such who the hell should run this country? Definately not the Liberals as they would jump into the Euro with all our feet at the same time and ruin us even more.
How the zb can the British have had the laziest attitude to work and have been greedy when they were putting in more hours for less pay than the Germans.As I’ve said we went wrongly in the direction of services etc because the bankers decided (rightly) that ‘they’ could earn more from a post Fordist economy than a Fordist one.So who were the zb greedy zb’s.It was the bankers not the workers.
Carryfast
You would be right except for one word, and its a really important word, more than that its a fact and one which would make a difference to the car most of us would buy and how much we would pay for it, and that word is QUALITY!
Trouble is that most of the hours th British Leyland workers spent at work was skiving or on strike, the tiny bit of their time they spent actually working was frankly just crap. At lest the "highly paid German workers went to WORK to produce a quality product, and as a result got a better wage (because their employer earned more money).
You seem to be in amongst those who think that they are owed something whether they actually contribute to the company or not.
The only thing I suspect I agree with you on is that B(W)ANKERS don’t deserve the bonuses they get despite contributing to their banks failing.
So obviously we got manufacturing right and the Germans got it wrong?
Don’t get me wrong I think this country [zb] up its manufacturing industry and went wrongly in the direction of “services”. The reason we went that way though was because the unions (and our lazy attitude to work) ruined it for everyone by being greedy. It gave Thatcher the excuse to ruin our industries and give more power to the fat cats in the financial sectors.
By the way New Labour were only slightly to the left of Hitler in their policies and as such who the hell should run this country? Definately not the Liberals as they would jump into the Euro with all our feet at the same time and ruin us even more.
How the zb can the British have had the laziest attitude to work and have been greedy when they were putting in more hours for less pay than the Germans.As I’ve said we went wrongly in the direction of services etc because the bankers decided (rightly) that ‘they’ could earn more from a post Fordist economy than a Fordist one.So who were the zb greedy zb’s.It was the bankers not the workers.
Carryfast
You would be right except for one word, and its a really important word, more than that its a fact and one which would make a difference to the car most of us would buy and how much we would pay for it, and that word is QUALITY!
Trouble is that most of the hours th British Leyland workers spent at work was skiving or on strike, the tiny bit of their time they spent actually working was frankly just crap. At lest the "highly paid German workers went to WORK to produce a quality product, and as a result got a better wage (because their employer earned more money).
It’s a bit of a coincidence that exactly the same thing was said about US car workers,by the Reagan propaganda machine in just the same way as it was said about ours by the Thatcher’s.While only a few years earlier it had been many of those same workers who’d built the economic boom of the 1960’s and the type of products which helped to create it.
Maybe you could come up with some examples of better German products than those which were being made here and in the States at that time even though those German workers were still being paid more to build a zb Volkswagen Beetle or front drive Audis and Taunuses as Britis workers were being paid to make Zodiacs,Jags and Rolls Royces and almost as much as American workers were getting to make V8 Fords and Chevrolets etc etc.
You’re right German workers did get a better wage.It doesn’t take a genius to understand that’s why they didn’t need to strike.
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.It’s just a shame that those who were supposed to know better (like MP’s and zb bankers) almost lost us ze var by failing to put up the funds required to develop products like the Merlin engine and could have saved a lot of lives and maybe beat ze Germans a lot sooner if they’d have given British workers the orders and the funds to build tanks like the Comet ready for 1940 instead of the zb Matilda amongst other similar cheap rate zb equipment.
