When I first started driving the HGV Class 3 licence was only needed if the ULW of the lorry exceeded 3 tons. Bedford ran many adverts promoting their TK which was under 3 tons unladen with a platfrom body, IIRC they claimed a payload of 7 tons so it was a 10 ton gross vehicle. Am I mistaken or not and are there any pictures or articles from CM?
definitely correct ,under 3tonne no hgv at that time . i had the limited hgv licence for under 21’s , i think it was for over 3 tonne ulw but up to 10 tonne gvw or something like that . i sort of used it for our slightly over 3tonne unladen (cough), 8.5 tonne GVW beford TK caravan rigids . lot of water under the bridge since then and it all a bit tongue in cheek and slightly fudging of what vehicle you would be driving .
tony
Interesting thread , as I remember a class 3 category . But I always thought it covered the 7.5 t trucks that were later made part of the car licence .you learn something new everyday .
I used to build caravan transporters when I left school using TK and Fiat chassis. We had to get a weighbridge ticket under 3 imperial tons. It didn’t matter that we removed fuel, spare wheels, loading ramps, winches, bottle screws, jacks etc. on the grass verge next to the public weighbridge. Once I had the magic ticket, it was off to the licensing office for the tax disc and log books, with all the stuff removed back on the lorry.
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7.5 tonne GVW came after the 3 tonne ULW rules . i think if i remember rightly you had to prove that you had been driving an under 3 tonne unladen vehicle ( a bedford removal van in my case) for a certain amount of time , this then qualified you for the magic under 10 tonne GVW limited HGV licence . we only had caravan transporters which were all over 3 tonne ULW but on;y 8.5tonne GVW, so i got mine simply by asking one of dads mates who did have a handy bedford tk under 3 tonne ULW van to state that i had indeed been driving it for the stipulated length of time and hey presto i was off with one of the bedford tk’s ,with 33 foot long 9’6" wide mobile home aboard.
tony
cav551:
When I first started driving the HGV Class 3 licence was only needed if the ULW of the lorry exceeded 3 tons. Bedford ran many adverts promoting their TK which was under 3 tons unladen with a platfrom body, IIRC they claimed a payload of 7 tons so it was a 10 ton gross vehicle. Am I mistaken or not and are there any pictures or articles from CM?
I drove many TK’s/TJ’s, Ford K Series Traders, BMC FGK’s (but not the 6 cylinder diesel ones as they were just on the limit depending on body, the petrol ones were lighter) , Terriers, Morris Commercial LC/ MRA 4X4 etc as a fitter as they were all under 3 tonnes unladen.
Pete.
When did it change to car licence up to 7.5t gross ?.That’s what I always worked under but I knew there had been some sort of different rules based on the 3 ton UW before that.Don’t know anything about about an HGV sub class below class 3 though or why it was needed.While 7 t payload on a 3 ton tare sounds bonkers in that regard. 
Carryfast:
When did it change to car licence up to 7.5t gross ?.That’s what I always worked under but I knew there had been some sort of different rules based on the 3 ton UW before that.Don’t know anything about about an HGV sub class below class 3 though or why it was needed.While 7 t payload on a 3 ton tare sounds bonkers in that regard.
The Austin/Morris FGK 100 (later renamed as a 900 FG under Leyland) was sold as a five tonner (the 100 in BMC commercial parlance represented the payload in cwts so 100 cwts = 5 tons, the FGK 80 was a 4 tonner etc) but when fitted with a lightweight platform body could actually carry 6 tons and was advertised as such by various bodybuilders but not by the manufacturer. The only actual 6 tonner they made were the WEK/WFK 120 ranges but they weighed in at just above the 3 ton unladen limit as presumably their normal control cab was heavier than the FG type.
Pete.
An advert for a under 3 ton Bedford TK from 1973.
Click on pages twice.
This 1978 advert states that they offered 6 different TK’s under the 7.5 ton limit.
This is a March 1970 shot of the entire Bewick fleet standing at the Paper Mill one Saturday about mid day. The Bedford KE was a recent addition and was driven by one of my younger Brother’s who had turned 17 in the previous December and when he passed his test I bought the new Bedford which was 10 ton gvw and fitted with a nice 17ft light Ali/wood flat it could carry 7 ton comfortably ( 8ton was a regular payload !) We had the 4 speed changed for a 5 speed box and the 20 gal tank swapped for the slim 45 gal coach tank. We also had the Tecalamit autolube system fitted. It ran up and down on distance work and at one time my Brother “got in” at Starch Products Slough and they had him running up and down to Scotland loaded both ways !
Those were the days ! Cheers Bewick.
DEANB:
An advert for a under 3 ton Bedford TK from 1973.Click on pages twice.
0
This 1978 advert states that they offered 6 different TK’s under the 7.5 ton limit.
1
Thanks Dean.So going by the two ads it seems that 3 t tare was the rule for no HGV at least in the early 1970’s.Then it changed at some point relatively recent after that to 7.5 t gross ?.Which would tie in with my memory having started on a 7.5 tonner D series on my car licence in late 1970’s deffo under the 7.5 t rule but also subject to an 18 year old limit from memory ?.
But vaguely knew about some sort of 3 t rule applying before that but I didn’t know the exact details unladen v gross weight let alone it meaning up to a potential 10t gross. 
Carryfast:
… But vaguely knew about some sort of 3 t rule applying before that but I didn’t know the exact details unladen v gross weight let alone it meaning up to a potential 10t gross.
Carryfast,
That’s my memory of it too.
In 1976, I used to drive a Ford ‘D’ series Custom Cab (HLX 743 K) using my car licence, which weighed in at 2-19-11, so under 3t ULW.
IIRC, it was ex- Godfrey Davies car hire when the boss got it.
My “coming of age” happened during the changeover period from old to new rules. I think my memory serves me right. Until the 1968 Transport act, (when O licences, HGV licences, MOTs for HGVs etc.) were introduced, driver and vehicle licensing were based on unladen weight. There was no separate HGV licence, a car licence covered everything, except until the age of 21 you could only drive up to 3 tons unladen, referred to on the driving licence as “light locomotives”. At 21 you could also drive “heavy locomotives”, that’s what became known as HGV after the change. Under the new rules then based on plated gross weight you could drive up to 7.5 tons gross on a car licence from 17 years old, anything over that needed an HGV for which you had to be over 21. I believe there had been a form of HGV licence before WW2 but the requirement was dropped during the war due to a shortage of drivers and not reintroduced after the war. In my case, I turned 21 at the start of 1969 and got a new 3 year licence with heavy locomotives on while you could still drive HGVs on a car licence. By “grandfather rights” if you’d been in the habit of driving HGVs during a certain qualifying period you were able to get an HGV licence without taking a test, which is how all the existing drivers got their licences. Due to that, I was able to apply for an HGV, had to get my employer (my brother) to sign a declaration that I’d been in the habit of driving a vehicle of the appropriate class during the qualifying period, so no test needed. You only got a licence for the type of vehicle you’d been driving in the qualifying period, so if for instance you’d been driving a four-wheeler, you only got a class 3 and still had to take a test to drive anything bigger.
Bernard
Wheel Nut:
I used to build caravan transporters when I left school using TK and Fiat chassis. We had to get a weighbridge ticket under 3 imperial tons. It didn’t matter that we removed fuel, spare wheels, loading ramps, winches, bottle screws, jacks etc. on the grass verge next to the public weighbridge. Once I had the magic ticket, it was off to the licensing office for the tax disc and log books, with all the stuff removed back on the lorry.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been there done that several times the first truck I ever bought was a TK reg no 105CYU and the second one WWV298 funny how you remember the reg plates, Buzzer.
albion1938:
My “coming of age” happened during the changeover period from old to new rules. I think my memory serves me right. Until the 1968 Transport act, (when O licences, HGV licences, MOTs for HGVs etc.) were introduced, driver and vehicle licensing were based on unladen weight. There was no separate HGV licence, a car licence covered everything, except until the age of 21 you could only drive up to 3 tons unladen, referred to on the driving licence as “light locomotives”. At 21 you could also drive “heavy locomotives”, that’s what became known as HGV after the change. Under the new rules then based on plated gross weight you could drive up to 7.5 tons gross on a car licence from 17 years old, anything over that needed an HGV for which you had to be over 21. I believe there had been a form of HGV licence before WW2 but the requirement was dropped during the war due to a shortage of drivers and not reintroduced after the war. In my case, I turned 21 at the start of 1969 and got a new 3 year licence with heavy locomotives on while you could still drive HGVs on a car licence. By “grandfather rights” if you’d been in the habit of driving HGVs during a certain qualifying period you were able to get an HGV licence without taking a test, which is how all the existing drivers got their licences. Due to that, I was able to apply for an HGV, had to get my employer (my brother) to sign a declaration that I’d been in the habit of driving a vehicle of the appropriate class during the qualifying period, so no test needed. You only got a licence for the type of vehicle you’d been driving in the qualifying period, so if for instance you’d been driving a four-wheeler, you only got a class 3 and still had to take a test to drive anything bigger.
Bernard
It seems like we’ve also confirmed a 3 t UW rule carried on regarding the HGV licence requirement,which then changed to 7.5 t gross as I started in the job.Unsurprisingly if we had car licences being used to drive 10t gross around on a 3 t UW wagon.If you could stop that thing without taking something out or ending up with the wheels facing up you could probably drive anything after that .An 8 wheeler must have seemed like driving a race car to handle and stop after that.
In 1973 my old man bought me a secondhand BMC fg 9 ton gvw under 3 ton ulw lorry ex fyffes bananas, cos we couldn’t afford a new bedford. Bagged Delabole slate powder or China clay was £2.50 a ton and it could carry 6 ton, needless to say I’m not a millionaire.ha.
Steve.
Well my dealings with the TK Bedfords was terrible IMOO They were a load of crap.Under powered to say the least , Plus there transmission hand brake, Well if you drove one of these Bedfords you will know what Im talking about, Of course when MOTs came into force the Bedford 6 wheelers had mega problems at the testing stations, The hand brake had to work on two axles, 
Regards Larry.
From the age of 17 I drove this around the streets, on my car licence. ULW was about 3ton 4cwt (fairly heavy body) and we used to put 5 ton on. None of the local bobbies on the estates stopped me or even bothered to ask if I was allowed to drive it.
Tyneside
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well my dealings with the TK Bedfords was terrible IMOO They were a load of crap.
+1
Evil nasty things non existent suspension,zb brakes and terrible under geared steering and awful gearshift.Don’t ask me how anyone could have stopped one at 10t gross. It took all day to make a decent downshift with that crap synchro box and linkage and the brake pedal travel before anything happened was a lottery.While the steering came back fast enough when self centering to break your wrist or hand if it was near the spokes.TJ was much nicer to drive and the Leyland WF was better than that.
I started driving trucks in the mid 70’s. Under 3ton u.l.w. and all ok on a car licence as a teenager. Drive TKs a few times but normally a D Series Ford.
The workshop hack was a “genuine” Class 3 D Series (ten stud wheels etc) with the bed and chassis cut off just behind the back axle, to bring the empty weight down, so we non-HGV drovers could drive it. With a load on it was a beast to steer.
Had a 1966 Commer before the Ford and a few times in a 1958 Albion. The Albion was deafening, and not just because of the tunes I was playing on the gearbox!
From what memories I have of then, and speaking from the vast experience of being a teenager(!) the TK stacked up well against the Fords, and was clearly streets ahead of the older trucks.
If I remember correctly the TKs had proper air brakes whereas some others of similar weight has vacuum brakes or air-over-hydraulic systems.