TEST ROADS
To be able to do your LGV training & testing in the city/town where you have lived for a number of years is an obvious advantage as you probably know the road system but what if there is not a test station in your location or for that matter a decent training school 
1 - Do you consider a residential course 
2 - Do you get a decent training school that is well out of test road area
3 - Does that mean you will be spending a lot of time driving along major roads to get to the test road area and not learning as much as you might do on other roads
4 - Does it matter where you learn
5 - If you are taught to ‘DRIVE’ the truck well out of test area, especially on roads that are much more difficult than what will be faced on test, and then shown the ‘Iffy’ bits in the test roads just prior to test, is that acceptable
VEHICLE SIZE
A - Does it matter what size of vehicle is used for training
B - Does doing the C training in, say, a 12 tonner instead of a full sized 18 tonner (or bigger) leave a trainee with a big disadvantage when they come to do their first job
C - Does doing the C+E training in a Wagon & Drag (W&D) which, again, may be an ‘undersized’ rigid with a minimum sized drag, leave the trainee at a disadvantage when they come to do their first job which, for most, will be in an artic
D - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an 18 tonner (or bigger) to be used for a C test
E - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an artic with a minimum 40 foot trailer for the C+E test
Feedback on the above please as I am just curious as to how trainees and instructors feel about these issues 
Does it matter what size of vehicle is used for training
I think so, it’s better to get used to a bigger cab and bigger vehicle with an instructor present. Imagine doing C in an Iveco rigid then doing CE with a little drag on the back. First job out ToplinemegaspaceXXL or whatever will be a huge shock. Unlikely but possible.
Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an artic with a minimum 40 foot trailer for the C+E test
Not the worst idea I’m sure, I’ve not done wag & drag but I’m sure I’d adapt to it easier than if I’d learned on one and then gone on to a conventional artic.
To be able to do your LGV training & testing in the city/town where you have lived for a number of years is an obvious advantage
Not necessarily, as a car driver you take no notice of width, weight, height and length limits, advisory black freight signs all that sort of thing. You know where you’re going so don’t tend to look at the signs. An unfamiliar area will make you look at all the signs, road markings etc. I did one test locally and the other in an unfamiliar area. Both have merit.
A few thoughts on your post;
1 - I would consider residential if the training school was worth the extra cash.
2 - I did my C training in an area which I had knowledge but then went on a number of areas where I had little knowledge, both areas were within the test area, it made little difference to the test.
C+E training started out of area completely, 50 min drive away, again made little difference as the instructor was able to advise on road type before arriving.
Completed C+E in the area where C passed, it made me feel more at home but still had to be very aware of all road conditions etc.
3 - Class C was a 45- 50 min drive, in the truck, to get into the area ready to start, I was ready for a brew before we started!
4 - No, should be ready for all and any conditions.
5 - I found that both of the areas where I learn’t to drive had “iffy” bits, they had people in them and very narrow roads so each drive was different.
A - Yes, I passed my class C using a full size 18 tonner, made me very aware of the size from the beginning, how to position on the carrigeway etc was good information to start C+E. Bigger is better!
B - Don’t know, no job yet
C - Don’t know, however, my instructor did impress that to learn in a W&D would be a disadvantage to a proper artic due to the length.
D - Would be a good change
E - as D
A further thought; during training it would also be useful to have something in/on the back of the truck, would give a better idea of weight and stopping, although I’m not the first to mention it I guess.
At the end of the day.
You gain experiance after you have passed.
You can not buy experiance.
When teaching Lgv Learners do you take them round real tight nasty back streets ?
I do but that depends on the learner and their abilty and how fast the pick up the learning.
At the end of the day they have paid to get a PASS so i do whatever they need to obtain a pass.
TEST ROADS
To be able to do your LGV training & testing in the city/town where you have lived for a number of years is an obvious advantage as you probably know the road system but what if there is not a test station in your location or for that matter a decent training school
1 - Do you consider a residential course
I did, yes. Didn’t happen that way.
2 - Do you get a decent training school that is well out of test road area
Not in my case, the schools were only 20mins from the nearest part of the test courses.
3 - Does that mean you will be spending a lot of time driving along major roads to get to the test road area and not learning as much as you might do on other roads
Does that matter? A few minutes on easy roads gets you calmer and more relaxed in the driving seat, ready for the tougher bits ahead. And remember, that only happens twice a day, once in each direction.
4 - Does it matter where you learn
Not entirely, for the first few lessons, it’s all down to learning how to handle the vehicle, and the ins and outs of getting it round bends, up and down hills, and it’s not vital where that happens.
5 - If you are taught to ‘DRIVE’ the truck well out of test area, especially on roads that are much more difficult than what will be faced on test, and then shown the ‘Iffy’ bits in the test roads just prior to test, is that acceptable
It is, but I’d want to be shown round the iffy bits of the test route a little earlier than “Just prior”. The odd jaunt down the close to impossible roads now and again is actually extremely helpful. Once you’ve conquered how to get that beast down roads and round bends that are way tighter than any on the test, you know you can conquer anything the examiner may throw at you. It’s just the same as the “We’ve had bigger than that in here mate” you meet after passing. Life may throw spanners in the works occasionally, but that’s just life.
VEHICLE SIZE
A - Does it matter what size of vehicle is used for training
YES, It should be full sized, 18t gross minimum for class 2, 2 axle unit plus 2 axle trailer min for class 1.
B - Does doing the C training in, say, a 12 tonner instead of a full sized 18 tonner (or bigger) leave a trainee with a big disadvantage when they come to do their first job
YES, even a rigid ticket lets you drive an 8 legger 32 tonner… going from a 12t to 32t on your first day sounds crazy to me. I went from 18 to 26t for my first job, so it wasn’t so scary.
C - Does doing the C+E training in a Wagon & Drag (W&D) which, again, may be an ‘undersized’ rigid with a minimum sized drag, leave the trainee at a disadvantage when they come to do their first job which, for most, will be in an artic
NO. Plenty of companies still use W&D, so learning how those work is always useful. I did my C+E in an artic, and the first time I had to couple up a W&D it took me nearly an hour to do it. Sure, a W&D trainee will have similar problems with an artic the first time, but the principles are the same, even if the details differ. There should be a rule about spending a day after passing learning how the other ones work tho.
D - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an 18 tonner (or bigger) to be used for a C test
YES.
E - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an artic with a minimum 40 foot trailer for the C+E test
NO, but a decently sized W&D should be the only alternative to a reasonably sized artic trailer.
Doesn’t passing a C+E in a Wag and Drag unit restrict you to them under Restriction Code 102?
Richard
The Lyonator:
Doesn’t passing a C+E in a Wag and Drag unit restrict you to them under Restriction Code 102?
Richard
No, this restriction only applied to drivers who held the old style class 1,2 etc licence when it was changed to the C and CE format.
Oh I see! You learn something new every day.
Richard
ROG:
TEST ROADS
To be able to do your LGV training & testing in the city/town where you have lived for a number of years is an obvious advantage as you probably know the road system but what if there is not a test station in your location or for that matter a decent training school
ROG:
1 - Do you consider a residential course
If there is nothing within easy driving distance then probably if the price is right
ROG:
2 - Do you get a decent training school that is well out of test road area
Does it really matter what roads you drive on? If you are not used to test routes but where you are learning is ‘harder’ routes then this should not be a problem, in my opinion it will get you used to the world of driving a truck. How many times have you been given half an address and no directions to it and had to work your way there thinking on your own initiative?
ROG:
3 - Does that mean you will be spending a lot of time driving along major roads to get to the test road area and not learning as much as you might do on other roads
I suppose that depends on the school. If it is all motorway and dual carriageway then I guess you don’t really learn a great deal but if the take you on the minor roads or single carriageways then you probably would gain something from this
ROG:
4 - Does it matter where you learn
I don’t think it does. As long as your instruction covers all the things in the test then it shouldn’t do, things like roundabouts, crossings, left and right turns,
ROG:
5 - If you are taught to ‘DRIVE’ the truck well out of test area, especially on roads that are much more difficult than what will be faced on test, and then shown the ‘Iffy’ bits in the test roads just prior to test, is that acceptable
I think it is as you should be prepared for the unexpected, even though they have test routes do they have to stick to them or is it just a case they do for ease and timings and so on?
ROG:
A - Does it matter what size of vehicle is used for training
Yes too right it does. If you learnt in something that’s is 12t and you pass then your first job is in a 25t vehicle, how much different is that going to be? There is going to be a huge difference in size (length), handling and cornering. It will be so much harder and you would probably be more of a danger to others.
ROG:
B - Does doing the C training in, say, a 12 tonne instead of a full sized 18 tonne (or bigger) leave a trainee with a big disadvantage when they come to do their first job
yes it does (see above)
ROG:
C - Does doing the C+E training in a Wagon & Drag (W&D) which, again, may be an ‘undersized’ rigid with a minimum sized drag, leave the trainee at a disadvantage when they come to do their first job which, for most, will be in an artic
I think it should be done in the main type of vehicle you are going to be driving but, like has been mentioned on here before, you should have a day learning the other type after your test (or at least go out with someone for the day to see the difference for yourself)
ROG:
D - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an 18 tonne (or bigger) to be used for a C test
yes
ROG:
E - Should there be a change in the rules which only allows a trainee to use an artic with a minimum 40 foot trailer for the C+E test
it depends what type of vehicle they are going to be driving afterwards, as long as you are sensible (who isn’t when they first pass their test?) you might pick it up as you go along or as I have said above spend a day with someone driving a wag and drag if trained on artic (or vice versa)
As a complete novice I can’t answer all your points ROG, but, with regards to vehicle size I have come to the conclusion it is better to learn in a vehicle of a size very similar to your eventual employment. I would rather struggle to get to grips with a monster truck of ginormous proportions with an instructor present than out on my first day with a new employer having done my test in a much smaller truck.
There was a massive difference in size between the 12 tonne Iveco of Sterling and the 18 tonne Volvo of Hughes, I would much prefer to learn in the Volvo, it’s not that much smaller, may even be the same size as the bigger 26 tonners so moving to a decent job would be so much easier.
Having seen the W and D Sterling use (the 12 tonner with a trailer) I would definately prefer to do C+E with a bigger artic rig, especially since W and D are quite uncommon on our roads.
I dont think the area matters, in fact probably an unfamiliar area is better as familiarity breeds contempt etc. You will probably learn more about signs and road marking which you may ignore if you have ever ignored them in a car.
I did my class three with the company I was working for and then paid for my own class one and didnt feel any different about the training. They were only teaching me to pass a driving test.
My own company had a long list of class three drivers wanting to upgrade & as we only ran half a dozen artics then it would have taken years to be put on the list.
I took my class 3 in Leeds and the class one in Hull
The 2 schools differed a lot in the training methods, my class 3 was company based, using rigid box trucks I was already familiar with while the class one was with RTITB who used full size artics with a 40’ tandem axle flat trailer.
This was several years ago but I think the same idea holds true today
Maybe CPC might cover these new fangled things as they are introduced.