I dont drive artics or know much about unit configurations but reading a topic Mike_C posted saying a driver asked him if his tag axle gave him extra grip/traction even though it wasnt a drive axle (if i am right )
so my question is can you get different spec’s of tag axels e.g.
EDIT say a tag/lift/pusher etc (cant think of other names for them) axle that can steer and also be a secondary drive axle aswell of and when needed
or do they just provide extra capacity for weight as a deadmans axle and can do either or and not both drive and steer
A tag axle usually refers to the type of 6x2 unit (or rigid) where the drive axle is in front of the rear undriven axle.It can be one which lifts or not.But in either case it actually results in less traction on the drive axle than a 4x2 unless it’s lifted but you can’t legally lift it if you’re running at max weight.So in the real world it’s even worse for traction than a 4x2 would be.The same applies with a mid lift/pusher type 6X2 unit in which the drive axle is behind the undriven rear axle.For traction it’s best to have a 6x4 but us brits are still around 40 years behind the yanks in realising that and we have’nt learnt yet even though we’ve had enough motorways and roads littered with jacknifed artics every winter over the years.
Do you really think it is practical for anyone running artics to spec 6x4 units to cope with these once in a blue moon “severe weather conditions” - its winter ffs !!
Heavy haulage/waste disposal/round timber yes . . but on general haulauge i dont think so.
And as for being behind the times compared to “the yanks” - dont be a ■■■■■
Suedehead:
Do you really think it is practical for anyone running artics to spec 6x4 units to cope with these once in a blue moon “severe weather conditions” - its winter ffs !!
Heavy haulage/waste disposal/round timber yes . . but on general haulauge i dont think so.
And as for being behind the times compared to “the yanks” - dont be a [zb].
It’s just as practical for us as it is for the yanks.Once in a blue moon is more than enough if you happen to be the driver or the poor so and so who ends up at the wrong end of a jacknifed 4x2 or 6x2 artic which might have stayed on the road if it had’nt lost traction or grip on a few inches of snow or any other type of slippery surface for that matter.But those yanks are in front of the times enough to know all of that unlike the Brits who seem to be going backwards considering that we were using 8x4 rigids on general haulage 50 years ago and I know what I’d prefer to be driving in winter ffs.So you’re another Brit who’d rather drive a typical 4x2 or 6x2 euro box here on general work.But most of those yanks would probably say that it’s not me who’s the zb if you posted that on one of their sites and I’d agree with them.But how many brit drivers would really turn down one of those ‘behind the times’ yank wagons here if their guvnor offered them the choice of that or a euro wagon??.
Carryfast, you know which I’d prefer, I had over 20yrs driving European trucks, I had some crap in the early days but in the last 15yrs I never had a motor older than 3yrs & I thought that a Volvo or Scania was the ultimate lorry, until I got my old fashioned Peterbilt yank tank, it is without doubt the best lorry I have ever driven, perfect for the job it does, the yanks got it right a long time ago & if it ain’t broke it don’t need fixing…
Suedehead:
Do you really think it is practical for anyone running artics to spec 6x4 units to cope with these once in a blue moon “severe weather conditions” - its winter ffs !!
Heavy haulage/waste disposal/round timber yes . . but on general haulauge i dont think so.
And as for being behind the times compared to “the yanks” - dont be a [zb].
It’s just as practical for us as it is for the yanks.Once in a blue moon is more than enough if you happen to be the driver or the poor so and so who ends up at the wrong end of a jacknifed 4x2 or 6x2 artic which might have stayed on the road if it had’nt lost traction or grip on a few inches of snow or any other type of slippery surface for that matter.But those yanks are in front of the times enough to know all of that unlike the Brits who seem to be going backwards considering that we were using 8x4 rigids on general haulage 50 years ago and I know what I’d prefer to be driving in winter ffs.So you’re another Brit who’d rather drive a typical 4x2 or 6x2 euro box here on general work.But most of those yanks would probably say that it’s not me who’s the zb if you posted that on one of their sites and I’d agree with them.But how many brit drivers would really turn down one of those ‘behind the times’ yank wagons here if their guvnor offered them the choice of that or a euro wagon??.
how does having 6x4 stop you jacknifing? thought jacknifing was a result of your unit stopping quicker than the trailer■■?
Carryfast:
.For traction it’s best to have a 6x4 but us brits are still around 40 years behind the yanks in realising that and we have’nt learnt yet even though we’ve had enough motorways and roads littered with jacknifed artics every winter over the years.
It is simple economics. A 6x4 uses more fuel than a 6x2. The initial cost is significantly higher. They are heavier.
It is more cost efficient to run 6x2s and take the occasional spell of snow on the chin.
Carryfast:
.For traction it’s best to have a 6x4 but us brits are still around 40 years behind the yanks in realising that and we have’nt learnt yet even though we’ve had enough motorways and roads littered with jacknifed artics every winter over the years.
It is simple economics. A 6x4 uses more fuel than a 6x2. The initial cost is significantly higher. They are heavier.
It is more cost efficient to run 6x2s and take the occasional spell of snow on the chin.
I’m not even sure they travel any better than a 6X2 in the snow, I’d take me 6x2 mini mid lift any day of the week. (The axle lifts at less than about 40k and stays up for about 3 minutes) my only complaint is, it won’t let me drop the diff lock in on the move.
Btw anyone who has a wagon that will, If you do it, make sure you’re going in a straight line, and just ease back on the throttle as you drop it in so both wheels are going at the same speed.
Our swedish friends seem to manage mostly with 6x2 tractors at higher weights than we have. Although they seem to favour the tag axle rather than the uk preference for the midlift.
Suedehead:
Do you really think it is practical for anyone running artics to spec 6x4 units to cope with these once in a blue moon “severe weather conditions” - its winter ffs !!
Heavy haulage/waste disposal/round timber yes . . but on general haulauge i dont think so.
And as for being behind the times compared to “the yanks” - dont be a [zb].
It’s just as practical for us as it is for the yanks.Once in a blue moon is more than enough if you happen to be the driver or the poor so and so who ends up at the wrong end of a jacknifed 4x2 or 6x2 artic which might have stayed on the road if it had’nt lost traction or grip on a few inches of snow or any other type of slippery surface for that matter.But those yanks are in front of the times enough to know all of that unlike the Brits who seem to be going backwards considering that we were using 8x4 rigids on general haulage 50 years ago and I know what I’d prefer to be driving in winter ffs.So you’re another Brit who’d rather drive a typical 4x2 or 6x2 euro box here on general work.But most of those yanks would probably say that it’s not me who’s the zb if you posted that on one of their sites and I’d agree with them.But how many brit drivers would really turn down one of those ‘behind the times’ yank wagons here if their guvnor offered them the choice of that or a euro wagon??.
how does having 6x4 stop you jacknifing? thought jacknifing was a result of your unit stopping quicker than the trailer■■?
Wrong that’s the symptom not the cause.It’s either a result of the loss of traction of the drive axle under power or loss of grip of the drive axle under braking.The trailer won’t push the rear of the unit sideways unless the rear axle has lost contact/grip with the road first.If the drive axle loses traction on a slippery surface the rear of the unit then slides sideways instead of staying in line with the trailer so you then take off the power and that’s when the trailer finishes the job of pushing the unit into a jacknife.Also double drive gives more grip for engine braking among other advantages.Having more driven wheels always wins out on slippery surfaces which is why there are’nt many,if any, 6x2,or 8x2 tippers unless they’ve been specced by some of those on here who can’t understand the physics of it all.
Carryfast:
.For traction it’s best to have a 6x4 but us brits are still around 40 years behind the yanks in realising that and we have’nt learnt yet even though we’ve had enough motorways and roads littered with jacknifed artics every winter over the years.
It is simple economics. A 6x4 uses more fuel than a 6x2. The initial cost is significantly higher. They are heavier.
It is more cost efficient to run 6x2s and take the occasional spell of snow on the chin.
So how did all of those who were using Kenworths at the old 38 tonne gross limit make the job pay?.Check out the Kenworths in the UK topic on old trucks.And sometimes a jacknife can result in more than just a damaged ‘chin’.
Carryfast:
So how did all of those who were using Kenworths at the old 38 tonne gross limit make the job pay?.Check out the Kenworths in the UK topic on old trucks.And sometimes a jacknife can result in more than just a damaged ‘chin’.
I’ve been driving artics since 1986 and Kenworths have never been known as a UK tractor unit, other than for niche work, Coca-Cola promotions or somesuch. American trucks may look the part, but they aren’t suited to UK roads.
Carryfast:
So how did all of those who were using Kenworths at the old 38 tonne gross limit make the job pay?.Check out the Kenworths in the UK topic on old trucks.And sometimes a jacknife can result in more than just a damaged ‘chin’.
I’ve been driving artics since 1986 and Kenworths have never been known as a UK tractor unit, other than for niche work, Coca-Cola promotions or somesuch. American trucks may look the part, but they aren’t suited to UK roads.
There’s a lot more than that on that thread Harry.
A 6x4 tractor unit will give more traction in slippery conditions if it’s fitted with locking differentials, that’s a given, but a midlift or tag axle will do just as well if the undriven wheels are lifted, there are decent tyres on the drive axle & diff locks are engaged, just look at the Scandinavians, the only time a 6x4 makes sense is in heavy haulage or off road work like forestry or waste disposal, in the UK they are too heavy, will have increased tyre wear & use more fuel (at least 7%) for normal road use. Even in the USA there are a few pioneering fleets using 6x2 with a lifting axle, one such fleet runs from New Mexico & in the winter anywhere north of there involves a trip through the mountains (the Rockies) they have more snow there in 15mins than you see here in a winter, they manage fine & a lot of the time they run light. I drive a 6x4 & I see a lot of snow, I’ve not been stuck yet, but I reckon I would’ve been ok in a 4x2 or 6x2.
A few years back the M11 was closed for a few days because of snow & ice, people were stuck everywhere, holed up in Tescos, the ‘blitz spirit’ was in full effect, I however managed to keep going, I was empty, had tyres that were a month from being illegal & had a big power motor, pretty much everything was against me, now I’m no supertrucker, all I did was drive according to the conditions & I did fine, I passed a few loaded 8x4 tippers that were stuck between Cambridge & Bishops Stortford, they had every advantage possible, but it didn’t help them one bit, so in summary it doesn’t matter if you have 4x2, 6x2, 6x4, 6x6 or even caterpillar tracks, if you drive like a ■■■■ you’ll get stuck
newmercman:
A few years back the M11 was closed for a few days because of snow & ice, people were stuck everywhere, holed up in Tescos, the ‘blitz spirit’ was in full effect, I however managed to keep going, I was empty, had tyres that were a month from being illegal & had a big power motor I passed a few loaded 8x4 tippers that were stuck between Cambridge & Bishops Stortford, they had every advantage possible, but it didn’t help them one bit
newmercman I wonder if any of those drivers with those stuck tippers won their cases for unfair dismissal.
Would it be possible to have a 6x2 with switchable drive so in bad weather you can switch to the other rear axle making it a 6x4 ? Just a thought as over the years I’ve had a few 4x4’s which you could select either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive. There would be the gross weight disadvantage but it would not really effect economy as most of the time you would be running with 2 wheel drive.
It says ERF not RAF:
Would it be possible to have a 6x2 with switchable drive so in bad weather you can switch to the other rear axle making it a 6x4 ? Just a thought as over the years I’ve had a few 4x4’s which you could select either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive. There would be the gross weight disadvantage but it would not really effect economy as most of the time you would be running with 2 wheel drive.
By all accounts Sisu do a lifting drive axle.But that’s not much good if you’re loaded up to weight.But it’s not the same drive system to a front axle on a 4x4 or 6x6 etc as the system on a double drive rear axle set up.Having said that the Sisu idea must have the drive to the lifted axle cut off when it’s lifted so why not if it’s being run on while it’s lowered?.
It says ERF not RAF:
Would it be possible to have a 6x2 with switchable drive so in bad weather you can switch to the other rear axle making it a 6x4 ? Just a thought as over the years I’ve had a few 4x4’s which you could select either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive. There would be the gross weight disadvantage but it would not really effect economy as most of the time you would be running with 2 wheel drive.
You still have all the components within a driven axle that need to be moved, whether it’s driven or not, a simple tube axle running on bearings at each end has none of the internal friction, the only thing driving with it unlocked will do is lower tyre wear, the friction will be the same.
It says ERF not RAF:
Would it be possible to have a 6x2 with switchable drive so in bad weather you can switch to the other rear axle making it a 6x4 ? Just a thought as over the years I’ve had a few 4x4’s which you could select either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive. There would be the gross weight disadvantage but it would not really effect economy as most of the time you would be running with 2 wheel drive.
You still have all the components within a driven axle that need to be moved, whether it’s driven or not, a simple tube axle running on bearings at each end has none of the internal friction, the only thing driving with it unlocked will do is lower tyre wear, the friction will be the same.
But is the economy argument really valid considering that you can run a 500 horse+ 6x4 unit at yank speeds,admittedly a bit less weight,but we don’t always run at max weights here,and you’re still getting around 6+ mpg ?.So compare that with a typical euro 6x2 or 4x2 running at around those same speeds there.I think we’re only gettting around 8 or 9 mpg at best running at the limited 90 kmh max.So try running a typical yank 6x4 at similar speeds as here and I’d bet you’d have a hard job measuring the difference in consumption and the benefits would probably outweigh the difference anyway.
(if i am right 
- its winter ffs !!
