Wondering if somebody could help me clear this up, sometime ago I made a mistake with manual entries, I thought I misunderstood the menu. This resulted in 00:00 - 08:12 showing with a ‘?’ insteaof the 10 minutes crosshammers I should have been showing. It also doesn’t show rest between 00:00 and 08:00. I thought this was a newbie mistake and I took a printout and filled in a chart by hand showing my time. Would this be acceptable if this was a genuine error.
Anyway, I have since had lots of practice with the brilliant Spanish tachograph simulator. I have been on analogues since, but then got the opportunity for a digi tacho again a couple of weeks ago. I had written down the instructions of the steps, but somehow I inputted my end of shift (which was 1/2 hour later than the card withdrawal) and somehow ended up at the main screen again ready to record work/driving, but with the same 00:00 - 08:00 marked as ‘?’. Again, I took printout and made a manual chart. I am convinced I followed the steps correctly…do all digital tachos run the same software or can there be slight differences. The units on the simulator and the one in the vehicle looked identical except the one in the vehicle the logo just said VDO and not Siemens. Can anybody shed any light on this problem I’m having. I’m a bit concerned if VOSA find this I’ll get my arse felt with me being quite new.
Wondering if somebody could help me clear this up, sometime ago I made a mistake with manual entries, I thought I misunderstood the menu. This resulted in 00:00 - 08:12 showing with a ‘?’ insteaof the 10 minutes crosshammers I should have been showing. It also doesn’t show rest between 00:00 and 08:00. I thought this was a newbie mistake and I took a printout and filled in a chart by hand showing my time. Would this be acceptable if this was a genuine error.
The ? symbol is time that is unaccounted for.
On a type one digital tachograph (the ones on the simulator) you do not have to input a manual entry for the rest period and the ? will be shown for any time the card is not in the tachograph, on a type 2 tachograph (the newest ones) when you input a rest period you should use the bed symbol, but to be honest it won’t make any difference if you’ve accidentally used the ? symbol.
KarlM:
Anyway, I have since had lots of practice with the brilliant Spanish tachograph simulator. I have been on analogues since, but then got the opportunity for a digi tacho again a couple of weeks ago. I had written down the instructions of the steps, but somehow I inputted my end of shift (which was 1/2 hour later than the card withdrawal) and somehow ended up at the main screen again ready to record work/driving, but with the same 00:00 - 08:00 marked as ‘?’. Again, I took printout and made a manual chart. I am convinced I followed the steps correctly…do all digital tachos run the same software or can there be slight differences. The units on the simulator and the one in the vehicle looked identical except the one in the vehicle the logo just said VDO and not Siemens. Can anybody shed any light on this problem I’m having. I’m a bit concerned if VOSA find this I’ll get my arse felt with me being quite new.
It doesn’t sound as if you’ve done anything you would get into trouble for but without seeing the printouts it’s hard to be certain.
You say the time from 00:00 to 08:00 is shown with the ? symbol but what about the rest of the daily rest period ?
If you have either the bed symbol and or the ? symbol for a total of 11 hours, or 9 hours if you was on a reduced daily rest period, I would say you have nothing to worry about.
Is your driver card analysed and if so have you had any infringements for the days in question ?
By the way when you make a mistake just do a printout and write the explanation on it, there’s no need to do a chart
It sounds like you’re using a 1.4 machine. It’s easy to get caught out as they like to move to the current day anytime you press enter. Keep an eye on the date on the screen when doing the manual entry.
Siemens Digital tachograph 1.3 manual entry (old type digital tachograph)
Not the clearest of videos but it may be helpful.
Siemens VDO Release 1.4 Manual entries (type 1 digital tachograph)
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods, apart from that it should give you a good idea of what to do on this model/type tachograph.
Siemens Digital tachograph 1.4 tutorial.
1 DTCO 1 4 Introduction
2 DTCO 1 4 - Inserting the Driver Card and Making Manual Entries
3 DTCO 1.4 - Clock Changing and Mode Switch Selection
Hi many thanks for your replies. Good to know I may be in the clear with this. All my times are correct for driving, rest etc. and its simply the period of the day up until my card being inserted that seemed to go pear shaped. Seems that my suspicion was correct that the simulator was different software.
My card is analysed and not received any infringements from an employer but was just a little concerned that i was recording the information incorrectly.
Many thanks for the youtube vid’s as well, I had looked for other simulators but never thought of looking for videos that people had made!! Does seem kind of lacking that the UK government or VOSA does not provide more material about digital tacho…I kind of think this is something that should be learnt in using government text rather than watching Youtube videos, especially with the fines and endorsements that can be given for getting it wrong!
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
The bed symbol is for break or rest, the ? symbol is for time that is not accounted for, for instance you may do a shift on analogue tachograph, the next time you used a digital tachograph you would use the ? symbol to cover the period from when you last used a digital tachograph to the current shift.
Drivers shall:
…
– operate the switch mechanisms enabling the following periods of
time to be recorded separately and distinctly:
…
(d) under the sign : breaks in work and daily rest periods.
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
The bed symbol is for both Break and Rest.
I think a lot of people believe the ? symbol is for rest periods just because type 1 digital tachographs showed the ? symbol for periods that the card was withdrawn and was assumed to be rest.
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
The bed symbol is for both Break and Rest.
I think a lot of people believe the ? symbol is for rest periods just because type 1 digital tachographs showed the ? symbol for periods that the card was withdrawn and was assumed to be rest.
tachograph:
In this video he says that you should use the ? symbol for daily rests, that’s not correct you should use the bed symbol for rest periods
Are you sure about that?
My understanding is that the bed symbol is for breaks, and the ? Symbol is for periods when you are not on duty I.e. Daily and weekly rest periods.
I guess technically it doesn’t make any difference, but how can you be on break if you are not even on duty?
The bed symbol is for both Break and Rest.
I think a lot of people believe the ? symbol is for rest periods just because type 1 digital tachographs showed the ? symbol for periods that the card was withdrawn and was assumed to be rest.
but you cant change the ? symbol
Sorry I’m not sure what you mean.
On a type 1 tachograph you would have to do a complete manual entry for the time the card was out to do away with the ? symbol, but nobody bothered and VOSA never expected anyone to.
On a type 2 digital tachograph you set the symbol for the rest period when you do a manual entry, you choose the bed symbol or the ? symbol.
n I remove the card it says end . print out .etc
Insert card next shift it says on the lines of … card taken out at xyz was that end of duty etc , answer NO. then it goes into man entry mode ie other work from 04:00 to 04:15 … then it asks if its the end of duty etc again and you go yes … then it jumps to the time you put your card in then you back track the clock to the time you started you enter your start time etc then fast forward till the time comes up where you inserted the card … in between all this it flags the ? symbol … so
When you do your man ent to finish. then go to do your other man entry to start are you supposed to do a man entry way back from when you logged off to the time you start to enter rest are you with me …
nick2008:
n I remove the card it says end . print out .etc
Insert card next shift it says on the lines of … card taken out at xyz was that end of duty etc , answer NO. then it goes into man entry mode ie other work from 04:00 to 04:15 … then it asks if its the end of duty etc again and you go yes … then it jumps to the time you put your card in then you back track the clock to the time you started you enter your start time etc then fast forward till the time comes up where you inserted the card … in between all this it flags the ? symbol … so
When you do your man ent to finish. then go to do your other man entry to start are you supposed to do a man entry way back from when you logged off to the time you start to enter rest are you with me …
No you dont need to nor are you expected to, BUT - with the new 1.4 it doesnt give you the ‘end of shift’ after each entry so you need to manually put in all events since the card was last withdrawn.
We’re advised to use ? But I think this is more to do with keeping our entries the same as the older tachos so analysis is easier.
nick2008:
n I remove the card it says end . print out .etc
Insert card next shift it says on the lines of … card taken out at xyz was that end of duty etc , answer NO. then it goes into man entry mode ie other work from 04:00 to 04:15 … then it asks if its the end of duty etc again and you go yes … then it jumps to the time you put your card in then you back track the clock to the time you started you enter your start time etc then fast forward till the time comes up where you inserted the card … in between all this it flags the ? symbol … so
When you do your man ent to finish. then go to do your other man entry to start are you supposed to do a man entry way back from when you logged off to the time you start to enter rest are you with me …
No you dont need to nor are you expected to, BUT - with the new 1.4 it doesnt give you the ‘end of shift’ after each entry so you need to manually put in all events since the card was last withdrawn.
We’re advised to use ? But I think this is more to do with keeping our entries the same as the older tachos so analysis is easier.
Yeah I know that with the new ones m1cks I just wondered with the old one we have on the 59 reg’s never been picked up on it but just wondered if I had missed something that I should have been doing and not told to all these years never to old to learn even though I been doing the job for 30+ yrs … I just like to keep things as simple as possible…
A quick question if I may.
I will be working 2 days Wednesday and Thursday non driving and then driving on Saturday and Sunday.
This gives me the necessary 45 hours weekly rest on Monday and Tuesday.
Do I need to create manual entries for all of these?
i.e. manual entry for Weekly Rest on Monday and Tuesday. Then a manual entry for other work on the Wednesday and Thursday. And then a manual entry for the rest day of Friday.
Thanks in advance.
zip929:
A quick question if I may.
I will be working 2 days Wednesday and Thursday non driving and then driving on Saturday and Sunday.
This gives me the necessary 45 hours weekly rest on Monday and Tuesday.
Do I need to create manual entries for all of these?
i.e. manual entry for Weekly Rest on Monday and Tuesday. Then a manual entry for other work on the Wednesday and Thursday. And then a manual entry for the rest day of Friday.
Thanks in advance.
You should manually record the none driving work on Wednesday and Thursday on charts or printouts, just the start and finish times and your name will do, don’t try to put those shifts into a digital tachograph it’s not legally required and it will take time with there being a high risk of mistakes.
These charts/printouts are just to show that you’ve had the required daily/weekly rest periods in a week that you’ve driven in-scope of EU regulations, you can bin the charts/printouts after 28 days.
On Saturday if you’re using a type 2 digital tachograph record the time from the last card ejection with the ? symbol, you use that symbol to indicate that it’s time that cannot be accounted for rather than rest.
If you’re using a type 1 digital tachograph you won’t need to record anything for the time the card was not inserted.
breaks in work and daily rest periods.
are you with me …