Hello all.
I know your all probably banging your heads against the wall because this question comes up all the time! I really don’t understand why it doesn’t become part of the training/test.
Anyway… I’ve started a new job and some days I drive 3.5 tonne Luton/van some days I drive 7.5 tonne box van and some days I drive 18tonne box/curtain sider. So…
I do 4 days on/4 days off 12 hr shifts. If I drive say the 7.5 tonne and insert my tacho at 8.45am and eject say 3pm then the next day I’m in a Luton van and the day after I’m back in 7.5/18tonne. When I re insert my tacho I have to do a manual entry for the time between taking the tacho out (3pm) to the time I finish my shift (8pm) and I’d put that as other work. Then manual entry from 8pm to 8am as rest then 8am to 8pm as other work. Then say I got in the truck at 8.15am I’d put a manual entry in from 8am to 8.15 as other work. Then I can start that day and do my checks etc… and I’d be all up to date.
As long as I have a 15 minute break in the first 6 hrs of work and. 30 minute within 9 hrs of work and fill out time sheets… if anyone gets what I have just said is this correct?. My brain feels like it is going to explode.
I think it’s more difficult when your driving is broken up between tacho and non tacho vehicles and sometimes I only drive an 18 tonne for no more then 30 mins round trip picking up from Heathrow airport (excluding waiting on bay to get loaded)
Thanks all! I get it’s a lot I’m asking but any feedback would be appreciated
Ross
Looks correct to me
I feel for you jumping in and out of different vehicles both with and without tachograph, as a tramper i only need to do a manual entry once a week and never drive a different truck
Well done, you seem to have a good grasp of the necessary rules
Thank you!
I would to have an allocated truck and drive just that one truck as it’s a lot eaiser to keep control of the tacho etc… in my opinion.
But being a new driver I was being turned down left right and centre! Managed to get a job with a logistics firms based near Heathrow and all there trucks are pretty new and in good nick and management is pretty good so can’t really complain. It’s all experience at the end of the day.
What you have said is correct with a couple of caveats. Legally if you drive under EU rules in any week ie driving the 7.5 or 18 tonne then all your commercial driving work for that week should be under EU rules ie when driving the van. In real life how often is this strictly adhered to 
.
What you have said about manual entries is correct an if you are required to do them for either payment of your wages or the company insists that you do it then carry on but unless either of these apply it’s a lot of hassle
svgzone:
What you have said is correct with a couple of caveats. Legally if you drive under EU rules in any week ie driving the 7.5 or 18 tonne then all your commercial driving work for that week should be under EU rules ie when driving the van. In real life how often is this strictly adhered to .
What you have said about manual entries is correct an if you are required to do them for either payment of your wages or the company insists that you do it then carry on but unless either of these apply it’s a lot of hassle
If some of a week is under Eu regs then the rest periods for that week come into force not all the regs
When driving the van for a day after a day of driving the lorry the 4.5 driving time breaks etc do not come into force for that van driving day
All drivers who drive in scope of the EU/AETR drivers’ hours rules need to comply with the sector specific working time rules, which have the same rest requirements as the EU drivers’ hours rules. Therefore, a driver who drives vehicles in scope of the GB rules on some days/weeks must always comply with EU rest requirements
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … ic-driving
The day your driving a van a local bus or a domestic rules lorry you are under GB domestic rules if in a given week you mix the two EU rules take precedence.
svgzone:
All drivers who drive in scope of the EU/AETR drivers’ hours rules need to comply with the sector specific working time rules, which have the same rest requirements as the EU drivers’ hours rules. Therefore, a driver who drives vehicles in scope of the GB rules on some days/weeks must always comply with EU rest requirements
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … ic-driving
The day your driving a van a local bus or a domestic rules lorry you are under GB domestic rules if in a given week you mix the two EU rules take precedence.
That is what I said - rest rules - but in your previous post you said EU rules which implied all the EU reg rules
If say on a Monday you drive 18 tonne under EU rules and then on Tuesday you drive the van technically yes you could drive it under domestic rules and only the rest period rules would apply but your maximum duty length for that day would be 11 hours. If you were likely to work more a 12 or 15 hour day you would need to elect to drive that day under EU rules and in doing so all the regulations including the 4.5 hours driving rule would apply. He says he does 12 hour shifts, so all EU driver rules would apply to driving the van.
But like I said to the original post how often is this enforced
TruckerRossy:
…As long as I have a 15 minute break in the first 6 hrs of work and 30 minute within 9 hrs of work…
You don’t need 30 minutes break within the first 9 hours.
You could legally do the following:
Work 6 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 6 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 2 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 15 minutes
In the above scenario, you haven’t worked over 6 hours without taking a 15 minute break, and you have had 45 minutes break in total.
If you work over 6 hours you need at least 30 minutes break in total.
If you work over 9 hours you need at least 45 minutes break in total.
carlston49:
TruckerRossy:
…As long as I have a 15 minute break in the first 6 hrs of work and 30 minute within 9 hrs of work…
You don’t need 30 minutes break within the first 9 hours.
You could legally do the following:
Work 6 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 6 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 2 hours
Break 15 minutes
Work 15 minutes
In the above scenario, you haven’t worked over 6 hours without taking a 15 minute break, and you have had 45 minutes break in total.
If you work over 6 hours you need at least 30 minutes break in total.
If you work over 9 hours you need at least 45 minutes break in total.
You can’t take a break at the end of your shift as that would be daily or weekly rest. You finish your shift on work.
Over 11 hours break (can be reduced to between 9 hours and 10 hours 59 minutes up to 3 times between weekly rest periods) is a daily rest.
Over 45 hours break (can be reduced to 24 hours but compensation required) is a weekly rest.
Doing any driving there driver■■?
You can’t take a break at the end, you have to finish the day’s shift on work.
This is correct, but you absolutely can’t work 6 hours take 15 and work 6 more. You do need to take 30 mins in 9 hrs. You could work 6 take 15 work 3 more take 15 and work another 6 with a another 15 min break in it somewhere
The 15 after your first 6 only give you three more work hours taking you to 9 at which point you’d need another 15mins to make 30mins total in 9 hours.
svgzone:
…you absolutely can’t work 6 hours take 15 and work 6 more. You do need to take 30 mins in 9 hrs.
The 15 after your first 6 only give you three more work hours taking you to 9 at which point you’d need another 15mins to make 30mins total in 9 hours.
It’s a beginner’s mistake to think that you need a 30 minute break (or even a 45 minute break) before going over 9 hours work.
If you work more than 6 hours, there is a requirement to take at least 30 minutes break before the end of your shift (which can be split into x2 15 minute breaks). And if you go over 9 hours work, there is a requirement to take at least a 45 minute break before the end of your shift (which can be split into x3 15 minute breaks, or x1 30 minute and x1 15 minute break). However, these 30 minute breaks and 45 minute breaks can be taken at anytime before you finish your shift. As long as you don’t break the 6 hour rule (ie. work more than 6 hours without taking a 15 minute break). You can’t finish your shift on a break, as that break would then become part of your daily or weekly rest.
The confusion comes about because some people incorrectly think that you need to take 30 minutes break before going over 6 hours work, and 45 minutes break before going over 9 hours work. The fact is you do need to take 30 minutes break if you go over 6 hours work, and 45 minutes break if you go over 9 hours work…but you can take these breaks at anytime before you finish your shift, as long as you don’t break the 6 hour rule (ie. work more than 6 hours without taking a 15 minute break).
If anyone still doubts this, then PM ROG who is one of our resident experts.
Ive only been doing the job 15 years so maybe I’m wrong but
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
if working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
if working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … time-rules
So you claim you can work 6 hours take 15 work another 6 which is 12 hours and you’ve had only 15 mins break explain.
You can work up to 6 hours then you need a 15 min break minimum this gives you an extension of 3 hours upto
9 hours at which point you need another 15 min break which is what I said.
svgzone:
if working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
When you work between 6 and 9 hours in total, you need to take a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes before the end of your shift. There is no requirement to take the 30 minutes break before the end of the first 6 working hours, although you must not break the 6 hour rule (ie. work more than 6 hours without at least a 15 minute break).
svgzone:
if working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes
When you work more than 9 hours in total, you need to take a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes before the end of your shift. There is no requirement to take the 45 minutes break before the end of the first 9 working hours, although you must not break the 6 hour rule (ie. work more than 6 hours without at least a 15 minute break).
There is no requirement to take the 30 minutes break before the first 6 hours, although you must not break the 6 hour rule (ie. work more than 6 hours without at least a 15 minute break).
Agreed but you must take 30 mins before or when you reach 9 hours ie 6hours work 15 3hours work 15 you can’t work 6 hours take 15 work another 6 which is what you originally stated
svgzone:
If say on a Monday you drive 18 tonne under EU rules and then on Tuesday you drive the van technically yes you could drive it under domestic rules and only the rest period rules would apply but your maximum duty length for that day would be 11 hours. If you were likely to work more a 12 or 15 hour day you would need to elect to drive that day under EU rules and in doing so all the regulations including the 4.5 hours driving rule would apply. He says he does 12 hour shifts, so all EU driver rules would apply to driving the van.
But like I said to the original post how often is this enforced
You cannot choose which regs to go by
Van driving is domestic
Lorry driving is EU generally
Not only can you it’s a best practice and I’m surprised you don’t know this
where mixing the work the driver and Operator can choose to undertake all of the work under the EU Drivers’ Hours Regulations.
this took me just a few seconds to find
ridgewaytraining.co.uk/mixi … gulations/
If you could not in the above example you would be in breach of domestic rules and this is the reason you can but only from domestic to EU.
Which I why I originally said
all your commercial driving work for that week should be under EU rules
it stops you from getting in all these weeds and traps 
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … ic-driving
Strange I cannot seem to find it in the official rules - perhaps you could please 
An easy way of thinking of van driving is that it is simply “other work”.
You can perfectly happily make entries for the time you were van driving (including a full day). If you do, you would need to make sure the breaks during the day are compliant and enter them (for the sake of the RT(WT)R).
Much easier to simply enter the time as unknown (question mark) and keep a diary. The question mark means that you are not making any record for the time, so your written record then comes into play.
In terms of the EU rules, the start and finish times of days you drove an out of scope vehicle or worked in the warehouse / office do matter.
