Straps on trailers!

Own Account Driver:
You talk about most loads but ‘most loads’ are by far and away packaged consumer goods wrapped on chep or euro pallets. Unless precariously double stacked there is little or no evidence of a significant problem with them coming through curtains and certainly no evidence of pedestrians and other road users being harmed by such.

I am sorry but you seem miss the point. You are quite right that most do not come through curtains or harm other road users (the odd one does), but that isn’t the full picture. What about the incidents that happen at delivery or collection points. That item that falls and catches the fork lift driver or the truck driver, or that stock that gets damaged when it fell over, or that damage to the truck/trailer? What about the daily roll overs we hear on the news? Most are caused by load shift which is probably caused by crap driving. But if the load was secured to known standards it wouldn’t shift.

I used to be involved in running general haulage with quite a large fleet. Weekly meetings saw us discussing yet another damage claim from a customer or more damage to trailers or worse - an injured employee.

I had an old chap come for his CPC a few years back. Nice old bloke still driving his own truck. He’s dead now - hit by a Corsa driven by a boy racer on a country road. Police think he had got out to try to secure his load after it leaned precariously and got hit by the car. There was no other reason he had stopped where he had with his hazards on. The load was leaning badly and one strap was undone as though he had been adjusting it.

The consequences of load shift are diverse - not just falling out of the curtains.

I will agree that some lightweight loads in standard curtainsiders will more than likely be fine - but we are talking lightweight, well stacked and wrapped positive fit with no gaps between loads. Anything else will shift - it’s just physics at work. When a force acts on a load due to a direction change or speed change it will either tip or slide. Friction stops sliding but we generally don’t have enough of that and badly stacked/wrapped pallets fall over.

One of my customers runs box van fridges - 18t trucks. They carry palletised stock such as bottles of pop/water. The drivers have been complaining about the state of pallets and lack of equipment such as load lock bars for months. We have held training sessions, tool box talks and discussions with managers etc but nothing changed. They have now had an incident of a 7ft tall pallet falling out as the back was opened - driver is not well at all. It was so obvious it was going to happen and so easily avoided. Who are they blaming■■? The driver saying he shouldn’t have taken the load and should have gone back in the warehouse to get it sorted. Driver says he’s sick of getting fobbed off when he does. However - broken bones are a reportable incident under RIDDOR and they have had a visit from the Health & Safety brigade. They have risk assessments identifying the need for load lock bars, straps, a max pallet height etc etc which has all been ignored. They are now being prosecuted. I know I am waffling on and on but I see all this as avoidable if everyone just did their job properly.

As I have said the consequences of load shift are very varied but all have an impact.

HOWEVER - I take on board your point that the incidents from small to large are a small percentage of the loads carried on the roads each day … I get that but unfortunately I live in the real world where I read a report about a driver with a life changing injury or even dead and it saddens me because it was avoidable. I read of companies going bust I ponder on how much of their profits were lost due to damage claims etc.

I just think there is much room for improvement. I see a lot of loads on flats and low loaders where I can just about guarantee that a sudden stop or swerve or both will see the load shift. It just hasn’t happened yet. The driver gets complacent and one day it’s going to bit him.

I don’t often agree with Carryfast but he is exactly right. it is the operators and legislation that needs changing. The rest of Europe recognises EN12642 a basic standard for body construction on goods vehicles - the UK doesn’t. This standard stipulates basic requirements for lashing points - the UK doesn’t. A vast majority of operators simply do not have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to buying/specifying trailers or securing a load.

Unfortunately I cannot do anything about legislation or operators. We have had the DCPC forced on us and I have decided to do what I can with that. If some drivers change what they do with regard to load safety because of this then it has achieved something - or alternatively they can choose to carry on as they are. Carryfast is right - it’s the wrong way to do it.

DVSA are misguided. Fine - stick to the enforcement rules they have published but investigate each one and when it is proven that the driver had no choice, didn’t have the equipment, was told to shut up and crack on etc etc then go for the management - not the driver. If it is proven the driver had the equipment, knowledge etc and chose not to bother - deal with the driver but based on the severity i.e No accident £100. Road closure - prosecution. DVSA appear to be trying to get at operators via drivers.

shep532:
Yeah yeah yeah - he’s a DCPC trainer so he only knows what he reads in a book. Yawn …

I’m sorry but I don’t agree a DCPC trainer should be telling anyone ‘just do your best’. That is why things are not improving and accidents happen each and every day. This ‘real world’ talk is just crap.

The U.K. Are way behind some of the main Euopean countries with regard to load safety. I have yet to come across a uk haulier or driver that uses friction enhancing material under their load - yet anyone with any knowledge knows this can reduce the risk of the load sliding tremendously and so reduce the strap requirement. cheap and easy.

Unfortunately it’s just the laws of physics and I doubt anyone on here is capable of rewriting those - they’ve been around a while now. Gravity and G force are proven facts and that’s all load safety is about.

How can anyone argue it’s ok not to use straps on reels on end because it damages the paper … If this is the case they need packing properly. I have seen it in Germany - large plastic disc like mushrooms that fit in the reel and accommodate the straps without damaging the reels. There’s a solution for most loads. Check this video … That’s the setup a professional haulier would have http://youtu.be/ieRPR4t2Y8g

so let’s get back to this real world you keep talking about. This is fine if you choose to cut corners, not secure it etc and that’s your choice. It’s fine if you ‘know’ how to secure it but YOU choose not to and understand the consequences. Tell yourself you live in the real world and carry on.

But when a load isn’t secured because the driver is forced into that position due to lack of correct equipment, wrong vehicle, lack of knowledge etc then that is totally wrong and operators/suppliers/consignors etc are getting away with it and endangering those employees for financial gain.

Those that have attended my DCPC load safety course can leave that room able to make an informed decision. They will have enough understanding of the physics, laws, rules, equipment capabilities, body strengths etc to decide for themselves. They will know what they need to know to look after themselves or choose to take risks.

Unfortunately many drivers cannot make an informed decision because they just don’t know enough. They are guessing how to secure the load. They ‘think’ they have secured a load and will only find out if they are correct when that thing happens on that day when that car driver makes that move and that event happens.

If you can get to Burnley come along to a load securing course - FREE - and let’s have a chat. Let me explain where I’m coming from and show you what I think and you explain where you’re coming from and what you think. Some things just can’t be explained in type. No harm in a conversation and you can have 7 hours CPC free of charge. :wink: then walk away and carry on in your real world ways or change your ways.

I might just take you up on that, I’m not far from burnley.

I think in some things we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Just one other question for you on the matter though…
You say this real world thing is a load of crap. In this situation with the kitchen roll where you can’t pull trailer straps over and the only other thing you’ve got is ratchet, you personally, what would you do? I know you say use netting etc, but ‘real world’ you ain’t got it. You ain’t got anything but trailer straps and ratchet but you can’t use your trailer straps. What would you do? And please don’t come back saying you’d refuse to take the load.

Carryfast:
Maybe sometimes they’ve even confused themselves.In that firstly around 400 kgs would probably fit the description of many of the industrial loads I carried in stillages and pallets on both a drop side flat and a tilt.In which case I always secured them by roping them down in just the same way as anything heavier on the basis that one or more < 500 kgs loads would go through a drop side and/or tilt framework and cover just as easily as an > 400 kgs one or more load would.A curtainsider also being no different in that regard.They also seem to be getting sidetracked by too much emphasis on G loads as opposed to intertia.The latter being based on the simple idea that a load will want to continue going in the direction it’s going in,at the speed it’s going in.IE mass x velocity rather than just concentrating on mass loading.The former arguably taking a bit more to stop than just basing the level of restraint required on the latter.The relevant bit being in all cases they are spot on about curtains just being there to keep the load dry and not to secure it.While I even also roped down empty pallets in that regard wherever possible.Which then leaves the issues of all vehicles being fitted with all the required anchorage points including rope hooks to provide the driver with every option.

You are quite right with regard to inertia and momentum but I am a believer that if the required restraints, blocking etc are used to prevent the load gaining inertia or any movement at all then the problem is solved. The principle of the BSEN 12195 standard is to prevent it moving rather than trying to deal with it once it is moving.

We know the maximum G forces acting on the loads from testing and experiment (0.8g). Calculate the restraints accordingly and the load becomes part of the vehicle just as the cab is bolted to the chassis and in normal driving never gains any momentum.

When I lived in Germany it was pretty common to see drivers use friction matting, a few bits of wood and some nails, then a couple of straps. They knew that if you prevent it sliding (friction and blocks nailed down), prevent it leaving the floor and losing friction by tipping (straps) then it wouldn’t move.

Guidance tells us a maximum G of 0.8 acts forwards under emergency braking. Have restraints to equal that and the load will not move and therefore will not gain any momentum and make things worse. It is easier to stop it moving BEFORE it moves than stop it once it is moving.

Own Account Driver:
If they were just weather protection (which is nonsense) they would only be secured by bungees rather than car seat belt material running right the way through them approx. two per pallet.

If you get a 500kg pallet on a pump truck and try using the width of the trailer as a run up to try and break the curtain you’ll seriously struggle.

That has to be the funniest quote of the week :smiley:

You wouldn’t be accelerating at 56 mph would you? A cornering truck could potentially generate 0.5g. That means half the weight of the item in force. it isn’t the curtain that is the problem - it’s what it is attached to at the top.

Rowley010:
I might just take you up on that, I’m not far from burnley.

I think in some things we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Just one other question for you on the matter though…
You say this real world thing is a load of crap. In this situation with the kitchen roll where you can’t pull trailer straps over and the only other thing you’ve got is ratchet, you personally, what would you do? I know you say use netting etc, but ‘real world’ you ain’t got it. You ain’t got anything but trailer straps and ratchet but you can’t use your trailer straps. What would you do? And please don’t come back saying you’d refuse to take the load.

If you want to take me up on it - PM me. Not a problem. It’s good to talk :smiley:

What would I do? Make my own decision based on my knowledge and circumstances. Would I refuse the load? Maybe - depends on lots of things. But … if I chose to take the load I would most certainly know the risks and try to drive to those risks. That’s the real world. What frightens me is the drivers who don’t know the risks. They copy what they see others do and unfortunately only find out they went round that bend too fast or braked too hard when its too late.

I have a customer used to collect paper reels in curtainsiders. it never actually went wrong, they had a couple shift and some damages but survived. They were using internal straps for exactly the reason you state. I managed to get the TM and MD into a training session after which they dropped the contract. They tried to talk to the suppliers and get things put in place but the supplier played the “It’s not my problem” card. The MD realised that somewhere, one day it was gonna go wrong and that in a court of law HE would be the one answering the questions. When all the scientific facts were presented to him he knew he couldn’t deny the risk and that it was just a percentage game as to whether it went wrong. they got other safer work and are still in business.

shep532:

Rowley010:
I might just take you up on that, I’m not far from burnley.

I think in some things we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Just one other question for you on the matter though…
You say this real world thing is a load of crap. In this situation with the kitchen roll where you can’t pull trailer straps over and the only other thing you’ve got is ratchet, you personally, what would you do? I know you say use netting etc, but ‘real world’ you ain’t got it. You ain’t got anything but trailer straps and ratchet but you can’t use your trailer straps. What would you do? And please don’t come back saying you’d refuse to take the load.

If you want to take me up on it - PM me. Not a problem. It’s good to talk :smiley:

What would I do? Make my own decision based on my knowledge and circumstances. Would I refuse the load? Maybe - depends on lots of things. But … if I chose to take the load I would most certainly know the risks and try to drive to those risks. That’s the real world. What frightens me is the drivers who don’t know the risks. They copy what they see others do and unfortunately only find out they went round that bend too fast or braked too hard when its too late.

I have a customer used to collect paper reels in curtainsiders. it never actually went wrong, they had a couple shift and some damages but survived. They were using internal straps for exactly the reason you state. I managed to get the TM and MD into a training session after which they dropped the contract. They tried to talk to the suppliers and get things put in place but the supplier played the “It’s not my problem” card. The MD realised that somewhere, one day it was gonna go wrong and that in a court of law HE would be the one answering the questions. When all the scientific facts were presented to him he knew he couldn’t deny the risk and that it was just a percentage game as to whether it went wrong. they got other safer work and are still in business.

Well we agree on something then. I do work out the risks with any load fully or partially strapped and drive accordingly!

And with reels that is one thing that I personally wouldn’t use anything other than ratchets on. Fortunately we have corner pieces in our units as we get reels a lot, but if I didn’t have them id phone my office and tell them I haven’t got corner pieces, the ratchets could damage the paper, so it’s your choice, I strap it and damage it or don’t take the load…what would you like me to do? I personally wouldn’t take reels on just trailer straps.

Rowley010:
Well we agree on something then. I do work out the risks with any load fully or partially strapped and drive accordingly!

And with reels that is one thing that I personally wouldn’t use anything other than ratchets on. Fortunately we have corner pieces in our units as we get reels a lot, but if I didn’t have them id phone my office and tell them I haven’t got corner pieces, the ratchets could damage the paper, so it’s your choice, I strap it and damage it or don’t take the load…what would you like me to do? I personally wouldn’t take reels on just trailer straps.

Sounds like we do agree afterall :smiley:

shep532:
The rest of Europe recognises EN12642 a basic standard for body construction on goods vehicles - the UK doesn’t. This standard stipulates basic requirements for lashing points - the UK doesn’t. A vast majority of operators simply do not have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to buying/specifying trailers or securing a load.

:open_mouth:

That’s interesting.In which case would that account for all the obvious anchorage provision shown in the video ?.

While realistically it should be a case of vehicle manufacturers using best practice anchorage provision and then advising operators and drivers as to why it’s there. :bulb:

shep532:
You are quite right with regard to inertia and momentum but I am a believer that if the required restraints, blocking etc are used to prevent the load gaining inertia or any movement at all then the problem is solved. The principle of the BSEN 12195 standard is to prevent it moving rather than trying to deal with it once it is moving.

We know the maximum G forces acting on the loads from testing and experiment (0.8g). Calculate the restraints accordingly and the load becomes part of the vehicle just as the cab is bolted to the chassis and in normal driving never gains any momentum.

When I lived in Germany it was pretty common to see drivers use friction matting, a few bits of wood and some nails, then a couple of straps. They knew that if you prevent it sliding (friction and blocks nailed down), prevent it leaving the floor and losing friction by tipping (straps) then it wouldn’t move.

Guidance tells us a maximum G of 0.8 acts forwards under emergency braking. Have restraints to equal that and the load will not move and therefore will not gain any momentum and make things worse. It is easier to stop it moving BEFORE it moves than stop it once it is moving.

That’s the bit which I think they’re possibly underestimating ?.The stored energy contained within the load is all about the speed it’s actually travelling at relative to the outside world.IE it is already moving and therefore contains momentum in the form of kinetic energy.On that note an emergency stop from 40 - 56 mph involves a lot more forces acting on the load and therefore restraints and anchorages than an emergency stop from 25 mph although the actual G loading hasn’t changed.IE the extra kinetic energy contained in the faster moving load has to go somewhere ?. :bulb:

nicsawalker:
I have a question. … I’m working with a trailer that has internal trailer straps and I also have ratchets and straps on hand if needed.
I’m happy to use the internal straps but some of my colleagues are not.
Is there a right time to use them or not? ■■
Is there a weight limit on the internal straps, and should you use ratchets and straps on heavier items. … or its it just a common sense thing?

The bottom picture with blue straps…you got them hooked to the side rail of the trailer, thats not meant for strapping? Over time or if the loads are heavy it’ll damage the side rail edge part. I always strap to the trailer chassis or tie down hooks.

Carryfast:
That’s the bit which I think they’re possibly underestimating ?.The stored energy contained within the load is all about the speed it’s actually travelling at relative to the outside world.IE it is already moving and therefore contains momentum in the form of kinetic energy.On that note an emergency stop from 40 - 56 mph involves a lot more forces acting on the load and therefore restraints and anchorages than an emergency stop from 25 mph although the actual G loading hasn’t changed.IE the extra kinetic energy contained in the faster moving load has to go somewhere ?. :bulb:

I’m the kind that tends not to question experts. The EN12195 standard claims the maximum G force is 0.8 to the front. If you HIT the brakes at 10mph it’ll create a similar force as at 56mph because at 56mph the brakes are less effective and have more to do. The truck stops much quicker at low speed than high speeds. So they suggest the maximum G is 0.8 and that really would be a worse case scenario and unlikely to happen except with the best brakes/tyres etc

It is my belief this is based on ‘normal’ driving conditions for a HGV and normal driving includes an emergency stop.

The standard reckons 0.5 to the side. Having seen EN12642XL trailers being tested - to generate 0.5g they need outriggers on or they’ll simply roll over. So 0.5 is a lot of force.

The 0.8g to the front and 0.5 sideways and rear wards are unlikely to be achieved on the road by a truck. Therefore if we secure the load to these figures it should never move.

I suppose we have to consider that during an emergency stop all the bits bolted to the truck stay where they are. If we strap to the EN12195-1 standard this will achieve the same thing when combined with friction. Tilt the load bed to 55 degrees and that will generate 0.8G. 90 degrees is obviously 1G. Strap it to withstand 55 degrees and the load won’t shift under braking.

If the load manages to accelerate then the G forces may increase. The strapping stops it accelerating.

So - I believe the experts should be right.

Roberta B:

nicsawalker:
I have a question. … I’m working with a trailer that has internal trailer straps and I also have ratchets and straps on hand if needed.
I’m happy to use the internal straps but some of my colleagues are not.
Is there a right time to use them or not? ■■
Is there a weight limit on the internal straps, and should you use ratchets and straps on heavier items. … or its it just a common sense thing?

The bottom picture with blue straps…you got them hooked to the side rail of the trailer, thats not meant for strapping? Over time or if the loads are heavy it’ll damage the side rail edge part. I always strap to the trailer chassis or tie down hooks.

There are certain sections of the trailer that you cannot get to the chassis underneath to hook them onto. So that’s the only option sometimes.

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shep532:

Own Account Driver:
You talk about most loads but ‘most loads’ are by far and away packaged consumer goods wrapped on chep or euro pallets. Unless precariously double stacked there is little or no evidence of a significant problem with them coming through curtains and certainly no evidence of pedestrians and other road users being harmed by such.

I am sorry but you seem miss the point. You are quite right that most do not come through curtains or harm other road users (the odd one does), but that isn’t the full picture. What about the incidents that happen at delivery or collection points. That item that falls and catches the fork lift driver or the truck driver, or that stock that gets damaged when it fell over, or that damage to the truck/trailer? What about the daily roll overs we hear on the news? Most are caused by load shift which is probably caused by crap driving. But if the load was secured to known standards it wouldn’t shift.

I used to be involved in running general haulage with quite a large fleet. Weekly meetings saw us discussing yet another damage claim from a customer or more damage to trailers or worse - an injured employee.

I had an old chap come for his CPC a few years back. Nice old bloke still driving his own truck. He’s dead now - hit by a Corsa driven by a boy racer on a country road. Police think he had got out to try to secure his load after it leaned precariously and got hit by the car. There was no other reason he had stopped where he had with his hazards on. The load was leaning badly and one strap was undone as though he had been adjusting it.

The consequences of load shift are diverse - not just falling out of the curtains.

I will agree that some lightweight loads in standard curtainsiders will more than likely be fine - but we are talking lightweight, well stacked and wrapped positive fit with no gaps between loads. Anything else will shift - it’s just physics at work. When a force acts on a load due to a direction change or speed change it will either tip or slide. Friction stops sliding but we generally don’t have enough of that and badly stacked/wrapped pallets fall over.

One of my customers runs box van fridges - 18t trucks. They carry palletised stock such as bottles of pop/water. The drivers have been complaining about the state of pallets and lack of equipment such as load lock bars for months. We have held training sessions, tool box talks and discussions with managers etc but nothing changed. They have now had an incident of a 7ft tall pallet falling out as the back was opened - driver is not well at all. It was so obvious it was going to happen and so easily avoided. Who are they blaming■■? The driver saying he shouldn’t have taken the load and should have gone back in the warehouse to get it sorted. Driver says he’s sick of getting fobbed off when he does. However - broken bones are a reportable incident under RIDDOR and they have had a visit from the Health & Safety brigade. They have risk assessments identifying the need for load lock bars, straps, a max pallet height etc etc which has all been ignored. They are now being prosecuted. I know I am waffling on and on but I see all this as avoidable if everyone just did their job properly.

As I have said the consequences of load shift are very varied but all have an impact.

HOWEVER - I take on board your point that the incidents from small to large are a small percentage of the loads carried on the roads each day … I get that but unfortunately I live in the real world where I read a report about a driver with a life changing injury or even dead and it saddens me because it was avoidable. I read of companies going bust I ponder on how much of their profits were lost due to damage claims etc.

I just think there is much room for improvement. I see a lot of loads on flats and low loaders where I can just about guarantee that a sudden stop or swerve or both will see the load shift. It just hasn’t happened yet. The driver gets complacent and one day it’s going to bit him.

I don’t often agree with Carryfast but he is exactly right. it is the operators and legislation that needs changing. The rest of Europe recognises EN12642 a basic standard for body construction on goods vehicles - the UK doesn’t. This standard stipulates basic requirements for lashing points - the UK doesn’t. A vast majority of operators simply do not have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to buying/specifying trailers or securing a load.

Unfortunately I cannot do anything about legislation or operators. We have had the DCPC forced on us and I have decided to do what I can with that. If some drivers change what they do with regard to load safety because of this then it has achieved something - or alternatively they can choose to carry on as they are. Carryfast is right - it’s the wrong way to do it.

DVSA are misguided. Fine - stick to the enforcement rules they have published but investigate each one and when it is proven that the driver had no choice, didn’t have the equipment, was told to shut up and crack on etc etc then go for the management - not the driver. If it is proven the driver had the equipment, knowledge etc and chose not to bother - deal with the driver but based on the severity i.e No accident £100. Road closure - prosecution. DVSA appear to be trying to get at operators via drivers.

Wow! Well written. are you a driver yourself or transport manager? ■■

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