Straps on trailers!

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

cav551:
The point being that if the load is not anchored effectively to the floor it will try to do this. There seems to be a general worry or argument about whether A load is going to fall out of the curtains, or possibly be seen by some official who opens the back doors to not see a cross strapping of the rearmost pallets. Other threads on a similar theme often see views expressed that pallets of drink in cans or bottles only need cling film or cling film and internals to secure the load. I am far more worried about being joined in the cab by what is on the trailer than any issue with vosa. Yes this is a picture from the USA and it was a bonneted vehicle which did hit something, but the driver may well have survived the collision if it hadn’t been for the load, in what seems to be a box trailer, bursting through the headboard.
.

Pray, how does one anchor pallets securely to the floor in a box trailer?

62

Jesus we ran all over Europe with palletised loads without strapping as some bang on about on here. nothing came out / moved in a head on collision a few straps wont make much difference.

for 24 pallets of nappies I wouldn’t have bothered at all.

no wonder some of these rules come in the way some drivers bang on about it on here.

63

The point being missed by many isn’t whether or not it will come out of the sides or even move. It doesn’t have to for you to get £100 and a PG9.

DVSA have given us their official policy information. If we break those rules we get £100 for the driver and a PG9.

Therefore - whether you agree or disagree, no matter what you know or think, no matter how clever you think you are at driving with an unsafe load or a safe load - according to their policy a pallet under 400kg is ok on internals and a pallet over 400kg must be secured to the deck. The resulting PG9 and fine is for breaking that rule. If you have an XL rated vehicle then as long as no gaps a positive fit load doesn’t need securing.

You could elect not to pay the fine and have your case heard in court but I for one would like to sit in and see a driver/company prove the load was safe against the recognised evidence DVSA would have in the form of known and recognised standards and codes of practice. That link to the story about the skip wagon - it cost them a fortune to get the independent expert to write up his report etc - at which point VOSA as was dropped it and it went no further. In my opinion that’s a win for VOSA.

Even if you elect to have your chance in court - you are still stuck at the roadside with an immobilised vehicle that they aren’t going to release until the load is secured to their satisfaction. Either way you lose at some point.

So they issue the PG9 and £100 penalty as well as immobilise your vehicle. You mess about sorting the load, pay your release fee, contest the fixed penalty and therefore don’t pay it - they drop the case and it goes no further. You still paid the release fee, still got held at the roadside for hours and the operator still got a PG9 hammering their OCRS.

They have published the rules of the game. Make your own choices as to whether to follow those rules or go your own way.

It is no different than they say a tyre at less than 1mm tread is illegal. We all know on a dry road a smooth bald tyre will grip better anyway so does that make it OK to drive round on slicks if it’s sunny?

The rules aren’t necessarily correct but they are the rules we have.

64

Apparently someone asked the question to a vosa officer, because we take a lot of tissue paper and when the pallets are double stacked they are near enough touching the roof of the trailer, so it’s physically impossible to actually pull the trailer straps over the load. Question was asked the vosa, I appreciate you want me to have every single thing strapped but how do you suggest, in the real world, I strap this? The answer…you should use ratchets. For tissue paper? It will either be really loose and do nothing, or with any tension at all on it will crush the load.m but the vosa said that’s what he’d expect, he’d want ratchets on every pallet. These people have a read a book and don’t live in the real world!

65

shep532:
The point being missed by many isn’t whether or not it will come out of the sides or even move. It doesn’t have to for you to get £100 and a PG9.

DVSA have given us their official policy information. If we break those rules we get £100 for the driver and a PG9.

Therefore - whether you agree or disagree, no matter what you know or think, no matter how clever you think you are at driving with an unsafe load or a safe load - according to their policy a pallet under 400kg is ok on internals and a pallet over 400kg must be secured to the deck. The resulting PG9 and fine is for breaking that rule. If you have an XL rated vehicle then as long as no gaps a positive fit load doesn’t need securing.

You could elect not to pay the fine and have your case heard in court but I for one would like to sit in and see a driver/company prove the load was safe against the recognised evidence DVSA would have in the form of known and recognised standards and codes of practice. That link to the story about the skip wagon - it cost them a fortune to get the independent expert to write up his report etc - at which point VOSA as was dropped it and it went no further. In my opinion that’s a win for VOSA.

Even if you elect to have your chance in court - you are still stuck at the roadside with an immobilised vehicle that they aren’t going to release until the load is secured to their satisfaction. Either way you lose at some point.

So they issue the PG9 and £100 penalty as well as immobilise your vehicle. You mess about sorting the load, pay your release fee, contest the fixed penalty and therefore don’t pay it - they drop the case and it goes no further. You still paid the release fee, still got held at the roadside for hours and the operator still got a PG9 hammering their OCRS.

They have published the rules of the game. Make your own choices as to whether to follow those rules or go your own way.

It is no different than they say a tyre at less than 1mm tread is illegal. We all know on a dry road a smooth bald tyre will grip better anyway so does that make it OK to drive round on slicks if it’s sunny?

The rules aren’t necessarily correct but they are the rules we have.

The other day I had pallets over 400kg each but it was kind of like paper bags stacked on em,many I know for sure ratchets would have damaged them. I used trailer straps. We are also responsible for taking a load and delivering it in the same condition as when it was out in our vehicle. Stuck between a rock and a hard place there really aren’t you. It’s over 400kg so vosa want me to ratchet it all, but I’m also responsible for taking it in the same condition and ratchets would damage it…

Ps from my last 2 posts I look like I’m against ratchets. Far from it! I do use them when appropriate. But in my opinion if I know the tension of a ratchet is going to damage my load then I try and find an alternative.

66

Rowley010:
Apparently someone asked the question to a vosa officer, because we take a lot of tissue paper and when the pallets are double stacked they are near enough touching the roof of the trailer, so it’s physically impossible to actually pull the trailer straps over the load. Question was asked the vosa, I appreciate you want me to have every single thing strapped but how do you suggest, in the real world, I strap this? The answer…you should use ratchets. For tissue paper? It will either be really loose and do nothing, or with any tension at all on it will crush the load.m but the vosa said that’s what he’d expect, he’d want ratchets on every pallet. These people have a read a book and don’t live in the real world!

Unfortunately this ‘real world’ you talk of injures or kills people and costs millions in damaged goods every year. Accidents are a daily occurrence. I don’t just mean falling out on the road, I also mean during unloading, loading etc etc. It is this that DVSA are tasked with dealing with to try and bring the accident rates down. Nobody should have to go to work and get injured etc. Tissue paper stacked roof high is going cause some kind of injury if it falls

However - it is not the DVSA’s job to advise industry. This industry is supposed to know what it is doing. DVSA simple enforce the rules they are given. The load securing matrix they use was devised in conjunction with the Health & Safety Laboratory in Buxton (part of the HSE).

With regard to loads that aren’t suitable for strapping there are many solutions. Netting or sheets (watch the videos on the DVSA load safety website and you’ll see these), better more suitable packaging, a box van etc etc etc. With you example of double stacked up to the roof preventing strapping - don’t double stack them. that is just greed on the suppliers part. Pallets are not supposed to be double stacked - they become too difficult to secure, damage the pallets below etc etc.

I am sure that if that supplier was shipping their product abroad by airfreight they wouldn’t send it to the airport in that state. The airline simply would not take it. In my time involved in transport I have seen many cases where a british trailer is loaded completely differently to a foreign registered trailer. This is because the German/Belgian etc won’t take it unless it is fit to be secured. One place called it ‘export packed’. On our trailer it was loaded simply stacked on pallets. On foreign trailers it was stacked inside wooden crates and the crates were strapped down.

As long as you or other drivers keep taking the loads and making excuses as to why it can’t be secured - nothing will improve.

It is time that suppliers did their bit to make sure loads are fit to travel by the means being used. Problem is why would they? They don’t get fined, their staff don’t get hurt, they get paid for the stock if it gets damaged they don’t pay for vehicle or trailer damage if the load shifts … etc. The law needs changing to be similar to most of Europe - the loader is held legally responsible as well as the haulier and driver. Unfortunately UK law just dumps it on the driver.

I could go on and on and on … this industry needs to improve with regards to load safety and it all starts with the driver.

67

^^
Exactly. Consignor liability is necessary. The RHA and the FTA are either too timid and frightened of their customers, or have a vested interest in doing nothing to bother about making any noise. It would be far more in drivers’ interest to make that noise than complain about the possibility of being fined. E petition any one?

The week before last one of the Yellow army arrived at one of my customers with an unstrapped load of cardboard sheets for packaging. These are banded on cheapo flimsy pallets with a sheet of fibreboard on top so that another pallet can be stacked on top of it. Some sheet sizes are on larger than normal pallets. Each pallet is probably about 150 kg. Curtains were opened and four top ones fell out. This is not an unusual occurrence, only the actual numbers involved making it worthy of any comment by the customer. Even when internals are used it is common to see that these have either gone over backwards or are about to topple when the internals are undone.

68

jesus and Hse have not gone waaay overboard in recent years either have they?

69

Does shep532 work for vosa? Seems to be as oblivious to the real world as vosa are.

I’m not disputing the fact the rules are there for a reason, but in the real world they can’t always be followed 100%. Like with tacho breaks, sometimes you are simply forced to go a little over due to unforeseen circumstances.

I appreciate the vosa text book answer of I should use netting or whatever else…but what if I don’t have it and my company don’t use it and all I’ve got is trailer straps and ratchets. Comes back to what is the text book answer and what is the real world answer.

If every unit and trailer carried every kind of strap and load restraint device known to man then I’m sure we could all always strap everything to dvsa standard all the time …but again, real world. We don’t and can’t carry all that so have to do the best with what we’ve got, and that can often mean it’s not as good as what dvsa would like.

70

shep trains people on the dcpc amongst others, in his defence all he is doing is stating what the legal requirement is.

I disagree with him on quite a few things and the trouble is too many of these rule get passed with no effort or resistance to them, that’s the sad bit for me as accidents will always happen no matter how far we go with the ‘rules’, there is no common sense or discretion allowed and that the really sad part.

71

That’s fair enough, but my dcpc trainer says what the book tells you, but he also know what it’s like in reality and tells us in some situations, these are the rules, but obviously you can’t do a b and c so just do your best. Do something rather than nothing. Ie back to the kitchen towels, you can’t strap everyone along st the sides but at least strap it at the back. It’s not what dvsa want but at least you’ve done something with what you’ve got available to you.

This highlights a problem with dcpc as well but that’s for another topic. Dcpc is designed for a perfect world where you can always park your trailer on level ground and there’s no traffic delays and you have every kind of strap and tool available to you whenever you are.

I appreciate dvsa have got a job to do in the interest of public and workers safety, but is a fining a driver because he can’t fully restrain a load as he doesn’t have the equipment to do it the right way of going about it?

72

I agree with what you are saying we used to load reels of paper stood on end with internal straps as a ratchet cut into the paper. things like chip board and plaster board yes strap with as much as you can.

I went to a site last year where I was stopped for not holding the handrail!

73

Yeah yeah yeah - he’s a DCPC trainer so he only knows what he reads in a book. Yawn …

I’m sorry but I don’t agree a DCPC trainer should be telling anyone ‘just do your best’. That is why things are not improving and accidents happen each and every day. This ‘real world’ talk is just crap.

The U.K. Are way behind some of the main Euopean countries with regard to load safety. I have yet to come across a uk haulier or driver that uses friction enhancing material under their load - yet anyone with any knowledge knows this can reduce the risk of the load sliding tremendously and so reduce the strap requirement. cheap and easy.

Unfortunately it’s just the laws of physics and I doubt anyone on here is capable of rewriting those - they’ve been around a while now. Gravity and G force are proven facts and that’s all load safety is about.

How can anyone argue it’s ok not to use straps on reels on end because it damages the paper … If this is the case they need packing properly. I have seen it in Germany - large plastic disc like mushrooms that fit in the reel and accommodate the straps without damaging the reels. There’s a solution for most loads. Check this video … That’s the setup a professional haulier would have http://youtu.be/ieRPR4t2Y8g

so let’s get back to this real world you keep talking about. This is fine if you choose to cut corners, not secure it etc and that’s your choice. It’s fine if you ‘know’ how to secure it but YOU choose not to and understand the consequences. Tell yourself you live in the real world and carry on.

But when a load isn’t secured because the driver is forced into that position due to lack of correct equipment, wrong vehicle, lack of knowledge etc then that is totally wrong and operators/suppliers/consignors etc are getting away with it and endangering those employees for financial gain.

Those that have attended my DCPC load safety course can leave that room able to make an informed decision. They will have enough understanding of the physics, laws, rules, equipment capabilities, body strengths etc to decide for themselves. They will know what they need to know to look after themselves or choose to take risks.

Unfortunately many drivers cannot make an informed decision because they just don’t know enough. They are guessing how to secure the load. They ‘think’ they have secured a load and will only find out if they are correct when that thing happens on that day when that car driver makes that move and that event happens.

If you can get to Burnley come along to a load securing course - FREE - and let’s have a chat. Let me explain where I’m coming from and show you what I think and you explain where you’re coming from and what you think. Some things just can’t be explained in type. No harm in a conversation and you can have 7 hours CPC free of charge. :wink: then walk away and carry on in your real world ways or change your ways.

74

shep532:
The U.K. Are way behind some of the main Euopean countries with regard to load safety. There’s a solution for most loads. Check this video … That’s the setup a professional haulier would have http://youtu.be/ieRPR4t2Y8g

Firstly it seems obvious that the DCPC is a case of putting the cart before the horse in putting the emphasis on drivers.When it should first obviously be a case of getting the engineering right through ISO and/or national type approval standards,especially regards the essential issue of anchorage provision but then also forcing operators to take it up through the MOT testing and O licencing requirements regime.‘Engineering’ standards in this case being not only applying to new equipment but also by way of compulsory retro fit/modification of older equipment.

As for the video that’s the type of best case practice that’s needed.Although even that example contains flaws like over reliance on head boards and the strength of box body sides.When the design shown at 2.45 - 3.19 should be the default choice in most cases regards longitudinal restraint.In which case why the dodgy cargo net v pipes design :confused: ,when the former design,but using closed end plates,would obviously be a better method.With the floor type anchorages shown at 7.09 being available on all types including box bodies.As for straps on steel coils no thanks I’d prefer chains.

75

Rowley010:
That’s fair enough, but my dcpc trainer says what the book tells you, but he also know what it’s like in reality and tells us in some situations, these are the rules, but obviously you can’t do a b and c so just do your best. Do something rather than nothing. Ie back to the kitchen towels, you can’t strap everyone along st the sides but at least strap it at the back. It’s not what dvsa want but at least you’ve done something with what you’ve got available to you.

This highlights a problem with dcpc as well but that’s for another topic. Dcpc is designed for a perfect world where you can always park your trailer on level ground and there’s no traffic delays and you have every kind of strap and tool available to you whenever you are.

I appreciate dvsa have got a job to do in the interest of public and workers safety, but is a fining a driver because he can’t fully restrain a load as he doesn’t have the equipment to do it the right way of going about it?

This place is a warped version of reality. Our place is a backdoor tip and everything comes and goes wrapped on blue chep pallets. No-one that rocks up ever arrives in a curtainsider with the pallets strapped in any way.

The DVSA advice is essentially contradictory. As a drama queen asked earlier if people would take pallets out unstrapped on a flat, as curtains are just weather protection. Well I certainly wouldn’t take 400kg pallets out on a curtainsider, with no curtains, with just the internals on - which is what the DVSA are essentially saying is ok if the curtains are just weather protection.

76

cav551:
^^
Exactly. Consignor liability is necessary. The RHA and the FTA are either too timid and frightened of their customers, or have a vested interest in doing nothing to bother about making any noise. It would be far more in drivers’ interest to make that noise than complain about the possibility of being fined. E petition any one?

The week before last one of the Yellow army arrived at one of my customers with an unstrapped load of cardboard sheets for packaging. These are banded on cheapo flimsy pallets with a sheet of fibreboard on top so that another pallet can be stacked on top of it. Some sheet sizes are on larger than normal pallets. Each pallet is probably about 150 kg. Curtains were opened and four top ones fell out. This is not an unusual occurrence, only the actual numbers involved making it worthy of any comment by the customer. Even when internals are used it is common to see that these have either gone over backwards or are about to topple when the internals are undone.

The DVSA’s load security remit (rightly) only extends to risks whilst on the public highway.

77

shep532:
Yeah yeah yeah - he’s a DCPC trainer so he only knows what he reads in a book. Yawn …

I’m sorry but I don’t agree a DCPC trainer should be telling anyone ‘just do your best’. That is why things are not improving and accidents happen each and every day. This ‘real world’ talk is just crap.

The U.K. Are way behind some of the main Euopean countries with regard to load safety. I have yet to come across a uk haulier or driver that uses friction enhancing material under their load - yet anyone with any knowledge knows this can reduce the risk of the load sliding tremendously and so reduce the strap requirement. cheap and easy.

Unfortunately it’s just the laws of physics and I doubt anyone on here is capable of rewriting those - they’ve been around a while now. Gravity and G force are proven facts and that’s all load safety is about.

How can anyone argue it’s ok not to use straps on reels on end because it damages the paper … If this is the case they need packing properly. I have seen it in Germany - large plastic disc like mushrooms that fit in the reel and accommodate the straps without damaging the reels. There’s a solution for most loads. Check this video … That’s the setup a professional haulier would have http://youtu.be/ieRPR4t2Y8g

so let’s get back to this real world you keep talking about. This is fine if you choose to cut corners, not secure it etc and that’s your choice. It’s fine if you ‘know’ how to secure it but YOU choose not to and understand the consequences. Tell yourself you live in the real world and carry on.

But when a load isn’t secured because the driver is forced into that position due to lack of correct equipment, wrong vehicle, lack of knowledge etc then that is totally wrong and operators/suppliers/consignors etc are getting away with it and endangering those employees for financial gain.

Those that have attended my DCPC load safety course can leave that room able to make an informed decision. They will have enough understanding of the physics, laws, rules, equipment capabilities, body strengths etc to decide for themselves. They will know what they need to know to look after themselves or choose to take risks.

Unfortunately many drivers cannot make an informed decision because they just don’t know enough. They are guessing how to secure the load. They ‘think’ they have secured a load and will only find out if they are correct when that thing happens on that day when that car driver makes that move and that event happens.

If you can get to Burnley come along to a load securing course - FREE - and let’s have a chat. Let me explain where I’m coming from and show you what I think and you explain where you’re coming from and what you think. Some things just can’t be explained in type. No harm in a conversation and you can have 7 hours CPC free of charge. :wink: then walk away and carry on in your real world ways or change your ways.

You talk about most loads but ‘most loads’ are by far and away packaged consumer goods wrapped on chep or euro pallets. Unless precariously double stacked there is little or no evidence of a significant problem with them coming through curtains and certainly no evidence of pedestrians and other road users being harmed by such.

78

Own Account Driver:
This place is a warped version of reality. Our place is a backdoor tip and everything comes and goes wrapped on blue chep pallets. No-one that rocks up ever arrives in a curtainsider with the pallets strapped in any way.

The DVSA advice is essentially contradictory. As a drama queen asked earlier if people would take pallets out unstrapped on a flat, as curtains are just weather protection. Well I certainly wouldn’t take 400kg pallets out on a curtainsider, with no curtains, with just the internals on - which is what the DVSA are essentially saying is ok if the curtains are just weather protection.

Maybe sometimes they’ve even confused themselves.In that firstly around 400 kgs would probably fit the description of many of the industrial loads I carried in stillages and pallets on both a drop side flat and a tilt.In which case I always secured them by roping them down in just the same way as anything heavier on the basis that one or more < 500 kgs loads would go through a drop side and/or tilt framework and cover just as easily as an > 400 kgs one or more load would.A curtainsider also being no different in that regard.They also seem to be getting sidetracked by too much emphasis on G loads as opposed to intertia.The latter being based on the simple idea that a load will want to continue going in the direction it’s going in,at the speed it’s going in.IE mass x velocity rather than just concentrating on mass loading.The former arguably taking a bit more to stop than just basing the level of restraint required on the latter.The relevant bit being in all cases they are spot on about curtains just being there to keep the load dry and not to secure it.While I even also roped down empty pallets in that regard wherever possible.Which then leaves the issues of all vehicles being fitted with all the required anchorage points including rope hooks to provide the driver with every option.

79

Carryfast:

Own Account Driver:
This place is a warped version of reality. Our place is a backdoor tip and everything comes and goes wrapped on blue chep pallets. No-one that rocks up ever arrives in a curtainsider with the pallets strapped in any way.

The DVSA advice is essentially contradictory. As a drama queen asked earlier if people would take pallets out unstrapped on a flat, as curtains are just weather protection. Well I certainly wouldn’t take 400kg pallets out on a curtainsider, with no curtains, with just the internals on - which is what the DVSA are essentially saying is ok if the curtains are just weather protection.

Maybe sometimes they’ve even confused themselves.In that firstly around 400 kgs would probably fit the description of many of the industrial loads I carried in stillages and pallets on both a drop side flat and a tilt.In which case I always secured them by roping them down in just the same way as anything heavier on the basis that one or more < 500 kgs loads would go through a drop side and/or tilt framework and cover just as easily as an > 400 kgs one or more load would.A curtainsider also being no different in that regard.They also seem to be getting sidetracked by too much emphasis on G loads as opposed to intertia.The latter calculation being based on the simple idea that a load will want to continue going in the direction it’s going in,at the speed it’s going in.IE a mass x velocity equation rather than just an equation of mass only loading.The former arguably taking a bit more thought to stop than just the latter.The relevant bit being in all cases they are spot on about curtains just being there to keep the load dry and not to secure it.While I even also roped down empty pallets in that regard wherever possible.Which then leaves the issues of all vehicles being fitted with all the required anchorage points including rope hooks to provide the driver with every option.

If they were just weather protection (which is nonsense) they would only be secured by bungees rather than car seat belt material running right the way through them approx. two per pallet.

If you get a 500kg pallet on a pump truck and try using the width of the trailer as a run up to try and break the curtain you’ll seriously struggle.

80

Own Account Driver:

Carryfast:
The relevant bit being in all cases they are spot on about curtains just being there to keep the load dry and not to secure it.While I even also roped down empty pallets in that regard wherever possible.Which then leaves the issues of all vehicles being fitted with all the required anchorage points including rope hooks to provide the driver with every option.

If they were just weather protection (which is nonsense) they would only be secured by bungees rather than car seat belt material running right the way through them approx. two per pallet.

If you get a 500kg pallet on a pump truck and try using the width of the trailer as a run up to try and break the curtain you’ll seriously struggle.

The problem being that the stored/kinetic energy contained within a 500 kgs pallet/s travelling at 30/40/50 mph + is a lot more than you’ll be able to put into it/them by running with it/them on a pallet truck at the curtain.In which case the idea is to use restraint and friction between the load deck and load to act as the brakes not hope that the curtain and curtain straps will stop it because the driver can’t be bothered to put all the required restraints into the equation.As for securing a curtain sider with bungees try it and see what happens to the curtain at speed let alone in a strong wind. :bulb: