Stobarts new volvos gas power

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
oh really O2 wont combust by itself eh. Think you better learn a bit more in the area of chemistry and physics. O2 will combust I have photos of the side of a T33 where an O2 tank ignited burns through metal real nice. Now do you wish that I look in my handbook of chemisty and physics for the ignition temp of o2 I can do that as well. Want to know what the byproduct of o2 burn is its called Ozone.

It was’nt the O2 that burned through the zb metal it was the metal burning in O2.Ever seen what a thermic lance can do.

[brentanna]

As well they are not burning pure LP gas the LP is used pre turbo to lower the temperature of the air causing it to condense, the LP enters the cylinders, where it mixes with the ionized diesel fuel, the ignition of the diesel causing the internal temp to ignite the PLgas. It is an inexpensive way to increase the burn of the diesel while lowering the emissions as you are getting a cleaner burn through the ignition of the PL gas. any more stupid questions Carryfast.

[brentanna]

It was’nt the O2 that burned through the zb metal it was the metal burning in O2.Ever seen what a thermic lance can do

Oh really want to tell me what the fuel was since there was no combustibles in that area ? I was there for the investigation. An o2 tank by itself it wasnt magnisium.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:

It was’nt the O2 that burned through the zb metal it was the metal burning in O2.Ever seen what a thermic lance can do

Oh really want to tell me what the fuel was since there was no combustibles in that area ? I was there for the investigation.

The fuel was the metal and/or whatever else the oxygen would have come into contact with.The relevant bit is the source of ‘ignition’ not the fuel source.Just about anything will combust in a pure oxygen environment ‘if’ there’s a source of ignition (Apollo 1).But it is’nt the oxygen that is the fuel source O2 is just the oxidiser side of the equation.Which is why if you’re going to make a IED to blow up your school you need sugar as well as fertiilizer.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
As well they are not burning pure LP gas the LP is used pre turbo to lower the temperature of the air causing it to condense, the LP enters the cylinders, where it mixes with the ionized diesel fuel, the ignition of the diesel causing the internal temp to ignite the PLgas. It is an inexpensive way to increase the burn of the diesel while lowering the emissions as you are getting a cleaner burn through the ignition of the PL gas. any more stupid questions Carryfast.

You’ve just defeated your own argument you can’t run a diesel engine on just LPG unlike a spark ignition engine.Simples.You’re learning something here unlike you did at zb school.

[carryfast]

dieseldave:

Carryfast:
LPG needs spark ignition so it’s not compatible with diesel engined trucks or cars and it’s got less calorific value than petrol or diesel.But it’s got much better octane rating than petrol so what’s needed is a supercharged spark ignition truck engine.But when everyone’s fitted one of those the zb’s in the government would just raise the tax on LPG.

Hi Carryfast,
That’s very interesting.

I visited a website on the subject of Diesel/LPG and I didn’t see a “supercharged spark ignition truck engine,” so now I’m not sure what’s going on.

Could you explain please?

Definitely.Did’nt even bother to read it all because there’s no way that they can be talking about running diesels just on LPG because it won’t work.If it’s cost efficiency then we need something like a modern version of the Merlin engine running at around 65 tonnes gross or more on just LPG.But first we’d have to get rid of the Brit government to get the relevant weight increases and a tax guarantee on the fuel for the next 100 years +.

[brentanna]

Carryfast with enough compression you can make any cylinder operate as a combustion source for anything that has an autocombustion temperature. You just need to raise the temperature through compression to reach the critical temp. How ever that is not what they are doing at this time it is possible to do. So you are learning something arent you. The main problem with the new greenhouse gas laws is how to get rid of the carbon, LP gas is clean burning, so by adding it into the deisel engines ignition sequence you are burning the unburnt carbon from the diesel fuel. Which will also increase the power the engine produces it is a win win situation. You will attain better economy while at the same time lower the gas emissions. They could use a number of other gases as well like H2S, H2, butane ect. LP gas is plentiful and cheap. That does not mean that it is impossible to run a diesel engine solely on propane.That is not what they are doing at this time, but it is able to be done as LP gas has a autoignition temp. You keep arguing that point I will keep showing you where you are wrong. Actually if I wanted to blow up anything I would just have to mix 2 readily avalible acids to make nitro.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
Carryfast with enough compression you can make any cylinder operate as a combustion source for anything that has an autocombustion temperature. You just need to raise the temperature through compression to reach the critical temp. How ever that is not what they are doing at this time it is possible to do. So you are learning something arent you. The main problem with the new greenhouse gas laws is how to get rid of the carbon, LP gas is clean burning, so by adding it into the deisel engines ignition sequence you are burning the unburnt carbon from the diesel fuel. Which will also increase the power the engine produces it is a win win situation. You will attain better economy while at the same time lower the gas emissions. They could use a number of other gases as well like H2S, H2, butane ect. LP gas is plentiful and cheap. That does not mean that it is impossible to run a diesel engine solely on propane.That is not what they are doing at this time, but it is able to be done as LP gas has a autoignition temp. You keep arguing that point I will keep showing you where you are wrong. Actually if I wanted to blow up anything I would just have to mix 2 readily avalible acids to make nitro.

Don’t you ever learn .LPG and petrol both have an auto ignition temp.But unlike diesel that temperature is far too low so it’ll ignite too early under compression ignition when the piston is still on it’s way up the cylinder on the compression stroke.Which in practice means that you’ve got expansion in the cylinder right when you don’t want it so at worst the engine blows up by putting a zb great big hole in the top of the piston or the mains and ends on the the crank get knocked out.It’s that old Cetane versus Octane issue.But why the zb would you want to use diesel at all at double the price of LPG if you could get an engine like the Merlin/Meteor running in a truck on just LPG at current fuel prices.

[brentanna]

ummm lowering the stoke would have anything to do with getting the engine to run effectivly on LP. Like I said getting LP gas to autoignite is doable. So your aguement is emply as you just basically admitted yourself it can be done. When you are debating an issue and you end up saying the same thing only in a different manner guess what you LOSE. . As fuel prices go up they will continue to look at using fuels other than diesel and gas for larger units like trucks there is just more to look at than whether it will let the truck look sleek and fast. Oh and by the way by definition a diesel engine is one that runs by autoignition does not matter what fuel you use. If we could compress the hot air you put out in a cylinder so it ignites we would have a diesel engine.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
ummm lowering the stoke would have anything to do with getting the engine to run effectivly on LP. Like I said getting LP gas to autoignite is doable. So your aguement is emply as you just basically admitted yourself it can be done. When you are debating an issue and you end up saying the same thing only in a different manner guess what you LOSE. . As fuel prices go up they will continue to look at using fuels other than diesel and gas for larger units like trucks there is just more to look at than whether it will let the truck look sleek and fast. Oh and by the way by definition a diesel engine is one that runs by autoignition does not matter what fuel you use. If we could compress the hot air you put out in a cylinder so it ignites we would have a diesel engine.

No my argument is based on good old fashioned engineering in which you run Octane rated fuels like petrol and LPG in spark ignition engines and Cetane rated ones like Diesel in compression ignition ones.Fuel prices have already gone up to the point where using the stuff that they usually burn off on the rigs as waste and the current Brit road fuel taxation policies make LPG the most cost effective fuel not diesel,in which case why bother with compression ignition engines anyway.However getting LPG to auto ignite is doable but there’s not much point if it wrecks the engine doing it which is why they don’t make any compression ignition petrol engines .But ‘if’ you’ve found a way of running a compression ignition,internal combustion,engine on nothing more than fresh air as fuel,it would’nt be a diesel engine it would be a compression ignition air engine and you’d be very rich.

[brentanna]

Thats why they use diesel for a ignition source instead of a spark. Christ you jabber on and just end up disproving your own arguements in the next post. Do you ever think about what you are actually saying or just type ? if you use 5% diesel in the cylinder and 95% lp gas you still basically have a gas powered engine. The diesel produces the ignition for the gas so you dont damage the engine you twit. What part of this do you NOT understand ? You are so full of it I am sure we could run any engine on the crap you spew out.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
Thats why they use diesel for a ignition source instead of a spark.

How the zb can they use diesel as the ignition source when all of the zb LPG will ignite,under less cylinder pressure and temperature,therefore before the Diesel can.

[dieseldave]

Hi Carryfast,
Sorry mate, but you’ve possibly bitten off far more than you can chew this time.

The issue is this:

Carryfast:
LPG needs spark ignition so it’s not compatible with diesel engined trucks or cars and it’s got less calorific value than petrol or diesel.

Sorry mate, but the red part is completely untrue. (And I’m being very polite )
The calorific value is nothing to your point, so it’s irrelevant to what’s being said here.

Carryfast:
LPG and petrol both have an auto ignition temp.

Yes, indeed they do, but if a person gets the meaning of ‘auto igniton temperature’ all mixed-up with the meaning of ‘flashpoint temperature,’ a person would start saying more completely untrue things like this:

Carryfast:
But unlike diesel that temperature is far too low so it’ll ignite too early under compression ignition when the piston is still on it’s way up the cylinder on the compression stroke.

This statement tells me that you’ve very probably got the definition of ‘flashpoint temperature’ confused with the definition of ‘auto-ignition temperature’ which is a basic and very common error. What you’ve said here would be spot-on if we were talking about flashpoint, but we aren’t discussing flashpoints because they are completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. The rest of your theories are based on TWO untrue premises and therefore fall flat the first time you post them.

There is absolutely no linkage between ‘flashpoint temp’ and ‘auto ignition temp.’
Just because a substance has a fairly low flashpoint, it DOESN’T follow that the same substance has a fairly low auto-ignition temp.

Sorry Carryfast, but unless you quickly own-up to an honest mistake, (and you’ve got this one very wrong) then you’ve been rumbled.

Carryfast:
Which in practice means that you’ve got expansion in the cylinder right when you don’t want it

Errr… No, because that’s all about how many degrees BTDC that the diesel fuel is injected versus the compression ratio versus the auto-ignition temperature of the fuel. This is a fine example of you continuing to post something that’s based on an incorrect premise.

Now to oxygen. According to the UN, (and ADR) the primary danger of oxygen is that it is a non-combustible non-toxic gas = UN Class 2.2
However, and still according to the UN, oxygen has a secondary danger in that it also counts as an oxidiser = UN class 5.1
As presented for carriage, oxygen (in the gaseous state) would be written like this:
UN 1072 OXYGEN, COMPRESSED, 2.2 (5.1)
ADR Transport Category 3.
From that, I’d agree that there’s no clue as to the flammability of oxygen, and that’s because ‘stuff’ is only classified ‘as presented for carriage.’

However, and Brentanna is absolutely spot-on about this; under certain conditions of use, oxygen is combustible.
I’m neither a chemist, nor a physicist, and I don’t use oxygen in the way that Brentanna is talking about, so I won’t pretend to understand it fully, or attempt an explanation of how it works.

Carryfast:
Don’t you ever learn

I could write something really sarcastic just here, but I’m polite, so I’ll stick with: Have you asked yourself the same (your own) question?

[brentanna]

hahahahahaha I guess you best go back to jail to learn the properties of LP and Diesel. Diesel will ignite at a lower compression than LP gas. Maybe do some research before you start talking about things you dont actually understand. Diesel has an autocombustion temp of 410 degrees LP is 1004 degrees so diesel will ignite before LP when compresses as it is the compression that raises the temperature to the ignition point. So that kinda sorta blows your theory all to hell doesnt it.

[carryfast]

dieseldave:
Hi Carryfast,
Sorry mate, but you’ve possibly bitten off far more than you can chew this time.

The issue is this:

Carryfast:
LPG needs spark ignition so it’s not compatible with diesel engined trucks or cars and it’s got less calorific value than petrol or diesel.

Sorry mate, but the red part is completely untrue. (And I’m being very polite )
The calorific value is nothing to your point, so it’s irrelevant to what’s being said here.

Carryfast:
LPG and petrol both have an auto ignition temp.

Yes, indeed they do, but if a person gets the meaning of ‘auto igniton temperature’ all mixed-up with the meaning of ‘flashpoint temperature,’ a person would start saying more completely untrue things like this:

Carryfast:
But unlike diesel that temperature is far too low so it’ll ignite too early under compression ignition when the piston is still on it’s way up the cylinder on the compression stroke.

This statement tells me that you’ve very probably got the definition of ‘flashpoint temperature’ confused with the definition of ‘auto-ignition temperature’ which is a basic and very common error. What you’ve said here would be spot-on if we were talking about flashpoint, but we aren’t discussing flashpoints because they are completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. The rest of your theories are based on TWO untrue premises and therefore fall flat the first time you post them.

There is absolutely no linkage between ‘flashpoint temp’ and ‘auto ignition temp.’
Just because a substance has a fairly low flashpoint, it DOESN’T follow that the same substance has a fairly low auto-ignition temp.

Sorry Carryfast, but unless you quickly own-up to an honest mistake, (and you’ve got this one very wrong) then you’ve been rumbled.

Carryfast:
Which in practice means that you’ve got expansion in the cylinder right when you don’t want it

Errr… No, because that’s all about how many degrees BTDC that the diesel fuel is injected versus the compression ratio versus the auto-ignition temperature of the fuel. This is a fine example of you continuing to post something that’s based on an incorrect premise.

Now to oxygen. According to the UN, (and ADR) the primary danger of oxygen is that it is a non-combustible non-toxic gas = UN Class 2.2
However, and still according to the UN, oxygen has a secondary danger in that it also counts as an oxidiser = UN class 5.1
As presented for carriage, oxygen (in the gaseous state) would be written like this:
UN 1072 OXYGEN, COMPRESSED, 2.2 (5.1)
ADR Transport Category 3.
From that, I’d agree that there’s no clue as to the flammability of oxygen, and that’s because ‘stuff’ is only classified ‘as presented for carriage.’

However, and Brentanna is absolutely spot-on about this; under certain conditions of use, oxygen is combustible.
I’m neither a chemist, nor a physicist, and I don’t use oxygen in the way that Brentanna is talking about, so I won’t pretend to understand it fully, or attempt an explanation of how it works.

Carryfast:
Don’t you ever learn

I could write something really sarcastic just here, but I’m polite, so I’ll stick with: Have you asked yourself the same (your own) question?

If youre right then then just try running a diesel/compression ignition engine on petrol and see how far it gets .But you’ve said yourself oxygen is an oxidiser it is’nt flammable in it’s own right and as any decent bomb maker knows an oxidiser won’t burn by itself without fuel.But if I read it right he did mention magnesium which sounds like a good source of fuel if it’s in contact with oxygen considering the way that thermic lance will burn with just ordinary iron.

[brentanna]

See told you you dont read or understand anything I am not a he, never have been, kinda hard being a he when I am 2 1/2 months pregnant. Secondly I did say the tank was not made of magnisium. So you didnt read what was written but read into it what you were thinking it would say. The tank was fiberglass not even a spark will you get from it. You do not understand the physics you understand the basics of what any back yard mechanic would learn on the street. That does not mean what the back yard mechanic understands to be true is really how it works. In theory you could go as low as 3% diesel fuel if injected at the right time, in relation to the LP gas and still get ignition.

[sir]

Without getting into the complexities of this discussion(Mercedes have done that for me).I did some work on a LPG powered Merc Econic about 2 yrs. ago-it was brand new,and not a spark plug in sight!I do believe however that the ECU was factory re-mapped.BUT,a colleague of mine worked on a V8 Scania running on LPG quite a few years ago. Flak jacket and sandbags in place

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
See told you you dont read or understand anything I am not a he, never have been, kinda hard being a he when I am 2 1/2 months pregnant. Secondly I did say the tank was not made of magnisium. So you didnt read what was written but read into it what you were thinking it would say. The tank was fiberglass not even a spark will you get from it. You do not understand the physics you understand the basics of what any back yard mechanic would learn on the street. That does not mean what the back yard mechanic understands to be true is really how it works. In theory you could go as low as 3% diesel fuel if injected at the right time, in relation to the LP gas and still get ignition.

Fibreglass tank full of oxygen.Why did’nt NASA think of that for the Saturn 5 or the shuttle I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how that diesel fuel will act as an ignition source for LPG in a compression ignition engine.

[brentanna]

Look at the temperatures, what temperature does diesel autoignite 410 degrees, if your engine has been warmed to operational temp you already have 195 degrees temperature in the engine at any given time. Compress the air mixture, electronically meter in you LP, at the proper time in the compression sequesnce inject your diesel. The compression has given you the 215 degree temp increase to ignite the diesel while still far beow the 1004 degrees needed for the LP gas. What temperature will the ignited diesel go to ? 1187 degrees 183 degrees over temp of autoignition of the LP gas. You now have a gas engine with a diesel ignition source.

[carryfast]

Sir +:
Without getting into the complexities of this discussion(Mercedes have done that for me).I did some work on a LPG powered Merc Econic about 2 yrs. ago-it was brand new,and not a spark plug in sight!I do believe however that the ECU was factory re-mapped.BUT,a colleague of mine worked on a V8 Scania running on LPG quite a few years ago. Flak jacket and sandbags in place

Don’t bother with the flak jacket just tell us who’s converting V8 Scanny diesels to run on LPG.If the bs on here is true then surely the best idea is to run an electronic controlled diesel engine with two ECU maps,one for diesel and one for LPG,and just use LPG all the time wherever possible. That’s ‘if’ a diesel will run on LPG of course which I say is bs.But if I’m wrong then there’s loads of idiots out there running on diesel when just a re map would get their diesels running on LPG for half the price in fuel.