Brentanna:
Wheelnut was on earlie he is just ignoring your stupidity, as he has already stated, and you argued with; he and yourself are not in agreement.
I have’nt ‘argued with’ anything that wheelnut has said on this topic.
I don’t think I have posted anything since page 2 and that was about Mr. Tinkler winning a CBI business award. The other thing I mentioned was gas fumigation which no-one is arguing with, yet!
hummmmm looks like he already stated his position doesnt it.
Wheel Nut:
swansea jack:
aldi supermarket scanias are running on duel fuel LPG/DERV system and mc donalds and owens llanelli had a few volvos the gas is sucked into the air inlet system then mixed with diesel and air i think
I believe you are talking of gas fumigation which can make a diesel run smoother, but not sure it does anything for economy.
For Brentanna’s benefit.
Brentanna:
I don’t think I have posted anything since page 2 and that was about Mr. Tinkler winning a CBI business award. The other thing I mentioned was gas fumigation which no-one is arguing with, yet!
hummmmm looks like he already stated his position doesnt it.
If I 've read it right he said that a diesel won’t run on LPG without spark ignition and even if it could run on LPG it would get damaged by using that fuel instead of diesel.He then said that references to dual fuel Diesel/LPG trucks were fumigation which is’nt exactly the same thing as using LPG as the actual fuelling source of a diesel engine instead of diesel 
.
He is not argueing after the facts have been presented only you have been. Clue
Brentanna:
He is not argueing after the facts have been presented only you have been. Clue
So here’s a clue.Put a set of spark plugs in a truck diesel engine and run the thing on LPG instead of Diesel that would allow truck operators to fill up with fuel for around half the price of diesel without having to buy diesel to light the LPG with.Simples.So does wheelnut agree with that or not.If not why not .
That would require a new head to fit the plugs in, distributor system etc etc. Why not just carry on igniting the gas with a little bit of the fuel the engine was actually designed for and replace the rest of the normal fuel with one a little cheaper like they do? That way you have a truck that will run on either. It’s not quite the vast saving that some think. The fuel (whichever gas that may be) will have duty put on it if it is going to be used as a fuel to run a vehicle on, add to that the fact that they tend to use a little more of this slightly cheaper fuel and you will start to see why there is not a great queue to have the system fitted by everyone. There are loads of things that could be used to make an explosion and therefore run an engine, it is the storage, delivery, metering and getting rid of the residue that causes the tricky bits.
I saw an explosion caused by flour once (and I still don’t understand why it explodes). Absolutely amazing that a bag of flour can be so damaging (nearly put me off cakes, but I’m assured the wife’s scones are past exploding (and they also make a ■■■■ good wheel chock in an emergency) so that’s OK), so in theory, you could run an engine off that, but I suppose metering the fuel in and getting rid of the ash would be a massive problem so we stick with liquid and gas.
The reason I asked about your car is that if you do own a car (and I would assume you do), you could run it for virtually 25% of what you are paying now. A diesel running on your own blend of fuel, just filtered and cleaned cooking oil with a bit of cetane added and you are allowed to produce 2500lts per yr (50 lts or 10 gallon a week) with no duty (and you don’t have to keep a log of how much you have made so in reality, it’s as much as you want).
My mate who is a sparky runs his van on it 75% own blend, 25% bought and it runs better than all pump. It’s been dyno’d and exhaust gas tested and he even sent a sample of used engine oil for analysis, all came back as better than normal. Not sure what would happen if you used it to run a truck with he customs folk, but I would guess that you as a company, would still be allowed the 2500 lts quota, though obviously it would need checking first.
We could all do it, but do we bother? No, we would rather moan about the price at the pumps than do anything positive.
I fear, we have lost the ‘pioneering’ spirit!
but but but if you just do what they are doing now, and using diesel to ignite, carryfast would have no points to argue, the fact that it is being done, makes no difference to him as he say’s it cant be done the gas would ignite before it was fully compressed. 
It gets worse.
Some lying ■■■■ has only made a video explaining about how this thing that doesn’t exist works.
DoYouMeanMe?:
That would require a new head to fit the plugs in, distributor system etc etc. Why not just carry on igniting the gas with a little bit of the fuel the engine was actually designed for and replace the rest of the normal fuel with one a little cheaper like they do? That way you have a truck that will run on either. It’s not quite the vast saving that some think. The fuel (whichever gas that may be) will have duty put on it if it is going to be used as a fuel to run a vehicle on, add to that the fact that they tend to use a little more of this slightly cheaper fuel and you will start to see why there is not a great queue to have the system fitted by everyone. There are loads of things that could be used to make an explosion and therefore run an engine, it is the storage, delivery, metering and getting rid of the residue that causes the tricky bits.
I saw an explosion caused by flour once (and I still don’t understand why it explodes). Absolutely amazing that a bag of flour can be so damaging (nearly put me off cakes, but I’m assured the wife’s scones are past exploding (and they also make a ■■■■ good wheel chock in an emergency) so that’s OK), so in theory, you could run an engine off that, but I suppose metering the fuel in and getting rid of the ash would be a massive problem so we stick with liquid and gas.The reason I asked about your car is that if you do own a car (and I would assume you do), you could run it for virtually 25% of what you are paying now. A diesel running on your own blend of fuel, just filtered and cleaned cooking oil with a bit of cetane added and you are allowed to produce 2500lts per yr (50 lts or 10 gallon a week) with no duty (and you don’t have to keep a log of how much you have made so in reality, it’s as much as you want).
My mate who is a sparky runs his van on it 75% own blend, 25% bought and it runs better than all pump. It’s been dyno’d and exhaust gas tested and he even sent a sample of used engine oil for analysis, all came back as better than normal. Not sure what would happen if you used it to run a truck with he customs folk, but I would guess that you as a company, would still be allowed the 2500 lts quota, though obviously it would need checking first.
We could all do it, but do we bother? No, we would rather moan about the price at the pumps than do anything positive.
I fear, we have lost the ‘pioneering’ spirit!
Not for me thanks I can put up with diesel but you’ll probably have seen I’m a petrolhead by choice but I’m convinced of the octane advantages of LPG and the price of the stuff (assuming that those thieving gits in the government don’t start taxing the zb out of it like petrol in the future).So at the moment I’d prefer to just look into replacing the Zafira with a dual fuel petrol/LPG one and modifying the V12 Jag’s present weber multiple throttle injection system for dedicated LPG fuelling.
But the ‘relevant’ and interesting thing about that Jag system is that it’s got distributorless ignition too which just gets fired by a signal from a crankshaft sensor going to the same ECU as runs the fuelling which has drivers to run two sets of coil packs job sorted and (much) simpler and better than the standard lash up 
.
On that note why can’t they just use the Diesel heads modified to take the plugs .That’s assuming that diesel engine really can run on that LPG stuff without blowing big holes in it’s pistons. 
Because at £5 + per gallon diesel seems like an expensive way of replacing spark plugs to me.
DoYouMeanMe?:
It gets worse.
Some lying [zb] has only made a video explaining about how this thing that doesn’t exist works.
.Well that’s job sorted.But if the idea has been around for so long why the zb are they still running trucks on expensive diesel when it’s that easy to run the thing for 95% of the cost of LPG + 5% of the cost of diesel and why are they still making petrol engines if we can run diesels on petrol.Can you understand why those of us who think that petrol engines have to run on petrol/LPG and diesel engines have to run on diesel are confused .
Especially when someone tells us that we can’t run LPG at compression ratios above around 12:1 without running into detonation issues and that’s before we start putting forced induction into the equation.
Brentanna:
he say’s it cant be done the gas would ignite before it was fully compressed.
Get it right.I said the issue was detonation.Under that scenario it’s not a case of ignition being the issue.
Carryfast:
Brentanna:
I’m still waiting to hear from wheelnut to see what he thinks.If he’s changed his mind then I’ll give up .
But you were not in agreement
If wheelnut is’nt in agreement with me,about the unviability of running a turbo diesel truck engine on 95% LPG with a 5% diesel pilot,then let him say it for himself.But as I remeber it he said that you’ll ‘probably knock the bottom end out’ even if you could provide it with the spark/ignition source
I am totally in agreement, unfortunately not with carryfast. I agree totally with bob the dogs succinct posting;
bobthedog:
I bow to curryfarts superior knowledge of the entire world… I have to say that he must be the most intelligent man on the face of the planet. Einstein pales by comparison…Now then, as you are so [zb] clever, curryfary, tell me how the carburetter engine works on LPG… Furthermore, please tell me the compund differences between Liquified Petroleum Gas and gaseous LPG… I want to know your take on it…
You, as the fount of all knowledge on everything must be able to tell this dumbass truck driver, who lives in an igloo in the middle of the barren wasteland which is Canada because I need to know.
While you are at it, can you please advise me on how best to deal with icy conditions (-30 tonight) and how I should act with regard to the unions… Also, my wife has had a heart attack and is suffering from heart failure and kidney failure, so could you please get over here as soon as possible and fix her up?
Either that or, for the love of God, SHUT THE [zb] UP!!!
Earlier in this thread I posted about something different, the reason was that Swansea Jack mentioned about gas, now I do know there is a difference between Liquefied Petroleum Gas and Compressed Natural Gas, there is also Liquefied Natural gas if I am correct in the parlance. Now in laymens terms in my understanding, introducing petroleum gas into a high compression diesel is going to cause problems, even with a spark to ignite it, whether that is ignited by spark plugs or high tension whatever he called it. There is one thing I am always willing to do, if I am wrong I will learn from it.
Now let me take you back to a much earlier thread on these forums where Carryfast proved he is a bigoted racist, remember the support for the Triple K. He does it to provoke reaction which unfortunately he gets. I feel he has the same attitude towards an engineer with a different view, especially when that engineer is a female.
Remember the book by Lynne Truss called; Eats, Shoots and Leaves. It reminds me of Carryfast every time I ignore his posts: If, But and Should. He has obviously got a modicum of intelligence to be able to read and write. However, it transpires that we are of a similar age and this great man was unable to get a job in the transport industry in the most profitable and pioneering days of International work. He says he was not able to get a job and was stuck on a mundane night trunk, although he quite often says he can drive an A frame drawbar outfit better than anyone else.
It makes me wonder if he had the same reception at interview with these pioneering transport companies of which the South and South East of England was bursting at the seams. He speaks regularly of how it should be done, yet has never driven a commercial vehicle past Ramsgate or Folkstone.
I use Trucknet to keep up with the haulage industry which has been a big part of my life and still interests me. I will read a post and do comment on many, but still willing to learn from those with the experience and up to date knowledge. I was recently accused by member Green, of living in the past, quite possibly, my home is 180 years old. I like visiting museums and vintage transport shows, yet can still understand the modern parlance, music and street speak of youth, and girls 
I find the ignore button quite useful occasionally, just wish I had one for the “wife”
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Brentanna:
I’m still waiting to hear from wheelnut to see what he thinks.If he’s changed his mind then I’ll give up .
But you were not in agreement
If wheelnut is’nt in agreement with me,about the unviability of running a turbo diesel truck engine on 95% LPG with a 5% diesel pilot,then let him say it for himself.But as I remeber it he said that you’ll ‘probably knock the bottom end out’ even if you could provide it with the spark/ignition source
I am totally in agreement, unfortunately not with carryfast. I agree totally with bob the dogs succinct posting;
bobthedog:
I bow to curryfarts superior knowledge of the entire world… I have to say that he must be the most intelligent man on the face of the planet. Einstein pales by comparison…Now then, as you are so [zb] clever, curryfary, tell me how the carburetter engine works on LPG… Furthermore, please tell me the compund differences between Liquified Petroleum Gas and gaseous LPG… I want to know your take on it…
You, as the fount of all knowledge on everything must be able to tell this dumbass truck driver, who lives in an igloo in the middle of the barren wasteland which is Canada because I need to know.
While you are at it, can you please advise me on how best to deal with icy conditions (-30 tonight) and how I should act with regard to the unions… Also, my wife has had a heart attack and is suffering from heart failure and kidney failure, so could you please get over here as soon as possible and fix her up?
Either that or, for the love of God, SHUT THE [zb] UP!!!
Earlier in this thread I posted about something different, the reason was that Swansea Jack mentioned about gas, now I do know there is a difference between Liquefied Petroleum Gas and Compressed Natural Gas, there is also Liquefied Natural gas if I am correct in the parlance. Now in laymens terms in my understanding, introducing petroleum gas into a high compression diesel is going to cause problems, even with a spark to ignite it, whether that is ignited by spark plugs or high tension whatever he called it. There is one thing I am always willing to do, if I am wrong I will learn from it.
Now let me take you back to a much earlier thread on these forums where Carryfast proved he is a bigoted racist, remember the support for the Triple K. He does it to provoke reaction which unfortunately he gets. I feel he has the same attitude towards an engineer with a different view, especially when that engineer is a female.
Remember the book by Lynne Truss called; Eats, Shoots and Leaves. It reminds me of Carryfast every time I ignore his posts: If, But and Should. He has obviously got a modicum of intelligence to be able to read and write. However, it transpires that we are of a similar age and this great man was unable to get a job in the transport industry in the most profitable and pioneering days of International work. He says he was not able to get a job and was stuck on a mundane night trunk, although he quite often says he can drive an A frame drawbar outfit better than anyone else.
It makes me wonder if he had the same reception at interview with these pioneering transport companies of which the South and South East of England was bursting at the seams. He speaks regularly of how it should be done, yet has never driven a commercial vehicle past Ramsgate or Folkstone.
I use Trucknet to keep up with the haulage industry which has been a big part of my life and still interests me. I will read a post and do comment on many, but still willing to learn from those with the experience and up to date knowledge. I was recently accused by member Green, of living in the past, quite possibly, my home is 180 years old. I like visiting museums and vintage transport shows, yet can still understand the modern parlance, music and street speak of youth, and girls
I find the ignore button quite useful occasionally, just wish I had one for the “wife”
Blimey you was only being called as a witness to verify what you actually said not as judge,jury and executioner. The issue just really now depends on the definition of ‘laymen’ and on wether I can be excused for daring to think that it’s accepted basic engineering practice that using petroleum gas to fuel a high compression diesel is going to cause problems. 
By the way also think that the mods might have commented on that inclusion of BTD’s final sentence in something as trivial as a bit of an argument between other members concerning engines and fuel types.Whatever gets said on here it should’nt have any connection with something as serious as that type of private issue.But if that’s what the site is all about you’ve got your wish BTD.
Like you, Malc, I must also be living in the past. I remember the summers being hotter, the winters with snow… I also like museums and love historical facts. I lived in an area renowned for it’s varied and rich history, much of which was very colourful.
Yet even I, at 41, and from a backwater area, was able to get jobs doing the sort of work I wanted. So it does beg the question as to why our resident mastermind was unable to do so. The way I see it is this. Either he was just generally no good at driving artics, and the A frame firms had moved away from them and he couldn’t cope. Or he was too scared to spread his wings. Or he was too British and thought that speaking French or German involved shouting loudly and slowly into the foreign persons face…
Or he was just too ■■■■■■■ gobby, knowledgable and irritating to be considered!!
Regardless, he has, by dint of posting utter ■■■■■■■■, managed to twist yet another thread into something which suits his agenda and to get to 14 pages…
In all honesty, it is clear that Stobart has got it wrong in using these engines. Obviously, the years of experience Stobarts have count for nothing in the shadow of curryfairys superior knowledge. Same as the countless decades of experience that drivers here have, or manufacturers here have.
I am utterly in awe of curryfairy. When is your flight, curry? Puff is in St Boniface waiting for you to come fix her up. I managed to get home but still feel I need to be trained by you on coping with the weather here…
I notice he ignored me, didn’t he?
i for one would have been interested in this subject but it looks pointless even trying to read through all this childish nonsense , i dont think i’ve ever seen this amount of crap being allowed to go on this long on any forum i’ve ever visited . you all should be ashamed , what a total waste of time not to mention a waste of a subject that we all could have learned something from.
some of you even resorted to petty name calling . you all got very boring pages ago.
pathetic.
Errr chaps I seem to have posted duff gen on page two
The Volvo’s are Volvo FM13 Dual fuel tractor units, Diesel/Liquefied Natural Gas [LNG] not LPG as I stated
It’s a joint field test between Volvo and Stobarts
Main problem found at the moment is there is only 5 sites in the UK which carry LNG so they have to be routed very carefully
Sorry if I caused a 12 page debate for nothing
z
Big Jon’s dad:
The ignited diesel replaces the spark plug. I get it. Will CF?
I lost the will to live by the time I got this far, hope I’m not repeating somebody else, but…
You can run LPG in a diesel engine, you use the diesel for pilot ingnition and the LPG goes bang, I tested an example of this technology on a 385 Renault Premium back in 2001, the system used was from Venezuela were it’s commonplace, it worked very well, but didn’t achieve the fuel savings that would’ve made it economically viable, it didn’t half make that old Premium jog on though
newmercman:
Big Jon’s dad:
The ignited diesel replaces the spark plug. I get it. Will CF?I lost the will to live by the time I got this far, hope I’m not repeating somebody else, but…
You can run LPG in a diesel engine, you use the diesel for pilot ingnition and the LPG goes bang, I tested an example of this technology on a 385 Renault Premium back in 2001, the system used was from Venezuela were it’s commonplace, it worked very well, but didn’t achieve the fuel savings that would’ve made it economically viable, it didn’t half make that old Premium jog on though
We got there eventually without any blood being spilled
From Page 2
Wheel Nut:
swansea jack:
aldi supermarket scanias are running on duel fuel LPG/DERV system and mc donalds and owens llanelli had a few volvos the gas is sucked into the air inlet system then mixed with diesel and air i thinkI believe you are talking of gas fumigation which can make a diesel run smoother, but not sure it does anything for economy.
I imagine driving one will be like driving in fog, much smoother and less vibrations
Soldier z:
Errr chaps I seem to have posted duff gen on page two
Hi Soldier z,
That’s no problem mate and thanks for clearing that up.
Soldier z:
Sorry if I caused a 12 page debate for nothing
Again mate, that’s no problem and it’s been a great discussion during which the wheel has been reinvented and the problem of perpetual motion got solved along the way. 