Stobarts new volvos gas power

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Carryfast:
What I’m saying is that the ‘combination’ of factors such as heat and compression pressures in a diesel engine,which are designed to ignite and burn a charge of diesel fuel,can (probably would) detonate a charge made up of high octane fuel designed to be ignited and burnt in a spark ignition engine which has a totally different set of factors designed for use of that type of fuel.You’re not going to believe me so just ask any diesel engine/truck manufacturer if the engine’s warranty would be upheld if you decide to run the thing on LPG instead of Diesel.Simples.

Hi Carryfast,

:open_mouth: Whereabouts were we discussing truck manufacturer’s warranties?
I’m trying to stick to basics for a very good reason, so please humour me for a while. :wink:
I asked you a very straightforward question:

dieseldave:
Are you saying that the normal running temperature achieved by a normal diesel engine would be hot enough to ignite/detonate a petrol/air mixture by compression igniton alone?

:bulb: Of course, you’d need to bear in mind the automatic ignition temperature for petrol when you answer.

BJD has asked you pretty much the same question:

Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast have you now accepted that simply replacing diesel fuel with petrol, in an otherwise unchanged diesel engine, will not result in the petrol/air mix igniting before the diesel/air mix would have done. Yes or no will be fine, we can take it further if need be, but your answer will show if you have understood anything we have been saying.

I’d say that yes or no would be fine, but please feel free to add an explanation that’s to the point you’re making if you wish.

It looks to me (and I’m always prepared to be wrong) that you’re theorising advanced stuff seemingly without you first having a grasp of the basics.
I think that’s the issue with your posts on this subject in a nutshell.

I’m not knocking your ability at explanation, but you do seem to be shifting uneasily from one idea to another.

Just above, you wrote “can (probably would)” which doesn’t quite seem the same as what you wrote previously:

Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.

In the second quote, you seem quite certain because you wrote “would.” Some proof of “would ignite petrol” would be good please.

You also seemed quite confident and definite when you wrote this:

Carryfast:
There’s no way that petrol can withstand the cylinder pressures and temperatures generated in a diesel engine without detonating unlike diesel fuel.Simples.

If it’s so “simples,” could there be some proof one way or the other please??

It might just be me, but I’ll own up that I’m really struggling to understand just what you’re saying, and I believe that it’s a lack of anything independent and verifiable in support of your contentions regarding the basics that’s preventing me from doing so.

322

Brentanna:
LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite

And a diesel engine compresses to?

323

the “if” is quite easy to explain. It is in the equation

If Carryfast had a clue then he would have stopped argueing 7 pages ago

it is actually part of an if/then statement common in mathematics and computer sciences.

324

Carryfast:
LPG is a gas in a liquid state and can actually be injected and atomised in just the same way as petrol or diesel by common rail Liquid Phase Injection.

Really, you have just got to be taking the ■■■■… No, seriously, you must be… Let me see if I have this right… You are saying that LPG is naturally a liquid??

Are you going to start saying that coal gas is ■■■■■■■ solid and can be burned in your furnace?

Mein Gott… Sagen sie immer dieses scheisse?

325

And a diesel engine compresses to?

depends on the engine but normally under 250psi

326

Diesel Dave, you have a wonderful way with words. I wish I had teachers like you when I was at school. Seriously.

327

Hi rob welcome to our little swarie

328

Brentanna:
Why he keeps doing so is that his answer will prove he is wrong Dave already knows the answer. It is kind of like court you never ask a witness a question to which you dont already know the answer.

That’s me busted then!! :blush: :blush:

It’s a fair cop, I’ll go quietly. :frowning:

On a separate note…

Carryfast, could I interest you in an avatar?

329

:frowning: Im sorry Dave I thought beinging it to his attention would get him to budge but it didnt.

330

bobthedog:

Carryfast:
Are you going to start saying that coal gas is [zb] solid and can be burned in your furnace?

I’m waiting for Carryfast to say something like: “Oh, you know about that, then?” :laughing: :laughing:

Hope your wife improves, Bob. We’re thinking of you.

331

bobthedog:

Carryfast:
LPG is a gas in a liquid state and can actually be injected and atomised in just the same way as petrol or diesel by common rail Liquid Phase Injection.

Really, you have just got to be taking the ■■■■… No, seriously, you must be… Let me see if I have this right… You are saying that LPG is naturally a liquid??

Are you going to start saying that coal gas is [zb] solid and can be burned in your furnace?

Mein Gott… Sagen sie immer dieses scheisse?

What does the L stand for in LPG :question: .It’s not naturally a liquid or there would’nt be a G. :unamused:

332

God he cracks me up really you should do standup, no really this is really really funny stuff no one can be that stupid.

333

dieseldave:

Carryfast:
What I’m saying is that the ‘combination’ of factors such as heat and compression pressures in a diesel engine,which are designed to ignite and burn a charge of diesel fuel,can (probably would) detonate a charge made up of high octane fuel designed to be ignited and burnt in a spark ignition engine which has a totally different set of factors designed for use of that type of fuel.You’re not going to believe me so just ask any diesel engine/truck manufacturer if the engine’s warranty would be upheld if you decide to run the thing on LPG instead of Diesel.Simples.

Hi Carryfast,

:open_mouth: Whereabouts were we discussing truck manufacturer’s warranties?
I’m trying to stick to basics for a very good reason, so please humour me for a while. :wink:
I asked you a very straightforward question:

dieseldave:
Are you saying that the normal running temperature achieved by a normal diesel engine would be hot enough to ignite/detonate a petrol/air mixture by compression igniton alone?

:bulb: Of course, you’d need to bear in mind the automatic ignition temperature for petrol when you answer.

BJD has asked you pretty much the same question:

Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast have you now accepted that simply replacing diesel fuel with petrol, in an otherwise unchanged diesel engine, will not result in the petrol/air mix igniting before the diesel/air mix would have done. Yes or no will be fine, we can take it further if need be, but your answer will show if you have understood anything we have been saying.

I’d say that yes or no would be fine, but please feel free to add an explanation that’s to the point you’re making if you wish.

It looks to me (and I’m always prepared to be wrong) that you’re theorising advanced stuff seemingly without you first having a grasp of the basics.
I think that’s the issue with your posts on this subject in a nutshell.

I’m not knocking your ability at explanation, but you do seem to be shifting uneasily from one idea to another.

Just above, you wrote “can (probably would)” which doesn’t quite seem the same as what you wrote previously:

Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.

In the second quote, you seem quite certain because you wrote “would.” Some proof of “would ignite petrol” would be good please.

You also seemed quite confident and definite when you wrote this:

Carryfast:
There’s no way that petrol can withstand the cylinder pressures and temperatures generated in a diesel engine without detonating unlike diesel fuel.Simples.

If it’s so “simples,” could there be some proof one way or the other please??

It might just be me, but I’ll own up that I’m really struggling to understand just what you’re saying, and I believe that it’s a lack of anything independent and verifiable in support of your contentions regarding the basics that’s preventing me from doing so.

The complexity of all the factors concerning combustion characteristics of different engine designs is difficult enough for the designers let alone me to explain.I reckon that I’ve done as good a job as possible,of ‘trying to’ explain why we don’t see Diesel engined trucks running just on LPG instead of Diesel at least yet anyway.It’s only that context that I’m referring to which just seems to be in agreement with wheelnut’s comments on the topic. :question:

334

Brentanna:

And a diesel engine compresses to?

depends on the engine but normally under 250psi

So LPG compresses to 600psi before it ignites without a spark and diesel engines only compress to 250psi.

Let us assume that we only want to use diesel engines for whatever reason.

The LPG won’t ignite if we simply used LPG in a diesel engine, will it Carryfast?
But diesel would ignite wouldn’t it? So if we were really clever, we could use LPG, CNG, LNG or horrors…petrol :exclamation: , and add just a little bit of diesel. As none of the fuels except the diesel will ignite at below 250psi we need the diesel to provide a spark to replace the spark plug that would normally be needed to use the other fuels.

Never mind your preference for 2 strokes or superchargers or any other distractions, stick to the point.

I can’t recall without looking back at previous posts but is any of the above wrong?

335

The complexity of all the factors concerning combustion characteristics of different engine designs is difficult enough for the designers let alone me to explain.I reckon that I’ve done as good a job as possible,of ‘trying to’ explain why we don’t see Diesel engined trucks running just on LPG instead of Diesel at least yet anyway.It’s only that context that I’m referring to which just seems to be in agreement with wheelnut’s comments on the topic

Well since the topic was on the current engines which use liquified gas being ignited by 5% diesel would you not say you were argueing just for the sake of argueing, Basically trolling as the diesel engine will never get to the point where the combustion chamber will withstand 600psi which would be the pressure required to auto ignite the gas. Thus the need for a diesel shot. which can be as low as 3% in theory.

336

I for one think you have been disgraced by your own stupidity ,if I were you would limit my comments to one’s where I can prove my post with independent reliable resources.

337

PS

You may want to consider accepting that avitar from Dave.

338

Are you actually that dense?

Are you going to say that liquid oxygen is a liquid in its natural state as well?

Look at the ADR codes… Gas is 2, liquid is 3…

My Christ…

339

Big Jon’s dad:

Brentanna:

And a diesel engine compresses to?

depends on the engine but normally under 250psi

So LPG compresses to 600psi before it ignites without a spark and diesel engines only compress to 250psi.

Let us assume that we only want to use diesel engines for whatever reason.

The LPG won’t ignite if we simply used LPG in a diesel engine, will it Carryfast?
But diesel would ignite wouldn’t it? So if we were really clever, we could use LPG, CNG, LNG or horrors…petrol :exclamation: , and add just a little bit of diesel. As none of the fuels except the diesel will ignite at below 250psi we need the diesel to provide a spark to replace the spark plug that would normally be needed to use the other fuels.

Never mind your preference for 2 strokes or superchargers or any other distractions, stick to the point.

I can’t recall without looking back at previous posts but is any of the above wrong?

If LPG can withstand and sustain correct combustion,under diesel engine type cylinder pressures,without detonation issues,then why bother with petrol or diesel and why not just use spark ignition engines running at diesel engine compression ratios.That way you don’t need to use expensive diesel to act as an ignition pilot instead of a spark plug :question: .Simples.

340

no then you would have an electronic ignition systen with plugs which can fail why not oliminat that headache as they have done and use a fuel that will do the job