hi all, bear with me on this please, I’m on furlough at the mo, my boss rang me up yesterday. a bit about myself 1st, I’m a driver of 38 yrs, 33 on artics on uk euro/work, always employed, at the mo driving a 10t on uk work, generally south Wales, we had work delivering bathroom & kitchen products, but we are classed as a distribution company so can rightly carry anything, but wasn’t overly busy, as I said my boss rang, & an idea has been formed by those I’m charge, that, they may be closing down the transport side, but keeping the cpc, or if it’s viable, asking drivers if they , either want to carry on the work as owner drivers, taking over the payments for the vehicles, or, send them back to merc & financing their own, using the work we have to cover outgoing routes e.g filling the truck witjh north & south Wales & maybe Bristol/ Somerset depending on weight, them get a return load north, i rightly could go up to 15t but with some of the villages houses etc. anything bigger is be struggling, I know I’d need to put down insurance costs etc into it firstly, but am not sure what costs per mile I’d be looking for to make a wage / profit as it’s only a small rigid, all cabs are sleepers, we have fuel cards we could use but not gone into any specific details as yet.
any help would be appreciated
thanks for taking the time taken to read this
Just gonna jump right in with the O licence comment… every individual “owner driver” would need their own operator’s licence, 8k cash in the back.
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AlexBarclay:
Just gonna jump right in with the O licence comment… every individual “owner driver” would need their own operator’s licence, 8k cash in the back.Sent from my SM-A920F using Tapatalk
thanks for that Alex, I didn’t realise, I thought a cpc holder could work for multiple clients, I haven’t got a cpc, only the driver one, so my options would be take the cpc myself or hire a holder? as for the 8 grand, I can cover them costs, use where I work as a operated base, what are your thoughts on carrying on with the merc on contract, it’s a heavy vehicle even by today’s standard, they always have been, or looking for something a bit lighter?
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A transport manager CPC holder can work for 4 clients or 50 vehicles - can’t go higher on either part.
That’s correct, I seen prices for external transport managers starting about £250, if you can do thr CPC yourself I would, £1200 odd pound, they only do 4 tests per year. If you go external make sure they’re relatively local and done the CPC last 5 years or done refresher training or some similar course - one of my clients had to send their TM on refresher training as their CPC was from years ago.
I waited 6 months to get my licence granted, cost about £600 between advertising in newspaper and licence grant fee.
For the operators licence you need £8k in bank (to show you can pay for repairs - even if you take a brand new truck on repair n maintenance contract). Maintenance provider (for 6 weekly checks- about £90 a time for a local garage to do). Operating centre you’ve got sorted. Would strongly recommend setting up your own LTD company to do this - protects your personal assets if you write a truck off and the insurance don’t pay the full amount out etc. Insurance - I was quoted £12k for 44t Renault premium + curtain last year, so insurance could make the whole venture not worth your while.
As for the vehicle, I don’t know much about the Mercedes, other than they seem to be good on fuel? Fuel will be one if your bigger costs so an extra mile per gallon will make all the difference. If you try to take a new truck on lease they may want a personal guarantee, I would avoid that if possible. You could find the current deal they have could be extended for another year or two, if it’s hire purchase then it’ll be cheap as chips and you’ll have an asset to sell on at the end, if it’s a lease, you should get a cheaper deal to keep the vehicle after the lease ends, repair and maintenance is good but expensive, new ad blue pump could be a few grand if that goes bad.
As for the size of the vehicle, I’m not sure on how much work there is for smaller vehicles, a lot of work I see advertised on the Facebook group’s is for full artics, running from about 80pence per mile.
The whole venture will depend on how well the outbound pays, if your making your costs or very near to it on your outbound load then return load is a bonus, most return loads pay your fuel and that’s about it. Then you need to worry if you’re actually going to get paid or how long you need to wait for payment - the worst I seen was 120 day payments, could you survive without cashflow til then? If no, invoice factoring where they’ll give you 75% upfront, another 20% when customer pays then and they keep the 5% would be a better idea.
I know ive rambled a bit and probably not really answered the question you’ve asked but I dont really know much about the smaller vehicles but I hope ive given you a reasonable overview of the whole process.
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AlexBarclay:
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A transport manager CPC holder can work for 4 clients or 50 vehicles - can’t go higher on either part.
That’s correct, I seen prices for external transport managers starting about £250, if you can do thr CPC yourself I would, £1200 odd pound, they only do 4 tests per year. If you go external make sure they’re relatively local and done the CPC last 5 years or done refresher training or some similar course - one of my clients had to send their TM on refresher training as their CPC was from years ago.
I waited 6 months to get my licence granted, cost about £600 between advertising in newspaper and licence grant fee.
For the operators licence you need £8k in bank (to show you can pay for repairs - even if you take a brand new truck on repair n maintenance contract). Maintenance provider (for 6 weekly checks- about £90 a time for a local garage to do). Operating centre you’ve got sorted. Would strongly recommend setting up your own LTD company to do this - protects your personal assets if you write a truck off and the insurance don’t pay the full amount out etc. Insurance - I was quoted £12k for 44t Renault premium + curtain last year, so insurance could make the whole venture not worth your while.
As for the vehicle, I don’t know much about the Mercedes, other than they seem to be good on fuel? Fuel will be one if your bigger costs so an extra mile per gallon will make all the difference. If you try to take a new truck on lease they may want a personal guarantee, I would avoid that if possible. You could find the current deal they have could be extended for another year or two, if it’s hire purchase then it’ll be cheap as chips and you’ll have an asset to sell on at the end, if it’s a lease, you should get a cheaper deal to keep the vehicle after the lease ends, repair and maintenance is good but expensive, new ad blue pump could be a few grand if that goes bad.
As for the size of the vehicle, I’m not sure on how much work there is for smaller vehicles, a lot of work I see advertised on the Facebook group’s is for full artics, running from about 80pence per mile.
The whole venture will depend on how well the outbound pays, if your making your costs or very near to it on your outbound load then return load is a bonus, most return loads pay your fuel and that’s about it. Then you need to worry if you’re actually going to get paid or how long you need to wait for payment - the worst I seen was 120 day payments, could you survive without cashflow til then? If no, invoice factoring where they’ll give you 75% upfront, another 20% when customer pays then and they keep the 5% would be a better idea.
I know ive rambled a bit and probably not really answered the question you’ve asked but I dont really know much about the smaller vehicles but I hope ive given you a reasonable overview of the whole process.
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thanks for the info bud, ours is only a small company, most are day drivers, from what I know of them, they just want an easy life, staying with the firm for the cash only, so I reckon they will just leave with the payoff, I’ll have to ask but if I can price it ok, I’ll probably be the one to take up the offer, so I may need to sit down with them if they decide to take that route, as for money wise, all our customers pay up front for goods so payment should not be a problem & I can discuss payment terms, I heard the average is 30 days? the boss mentioned using our fuel cards to start, keyfuels& bp, payment to be discussed, if the cpc holder/ tm is willing to help out to start, I could look into getting the national/international at some point,
as for my 19 reg merc, it is not bad on fuel, ave 17- 19 mpg, but it is heavy, drivers I know have similar sleeper cabbed vehicles of same weight, longer bodies, on bed deliveries & can carry. similar or more e.g ( iveco,daf ) & the price of merc (dealer) parts are eye watering, so may have to look elsewhere, tbc,
I could also be looking at hotshot work to Europe in time, & other options depending on rates!
as it stands, I could cover a lot of mileage in a day as my standard outbound deliveries are boxes similar to parcel deliveries, in & out in 5 mins,
I was working sums. roughly out today & looking for £1.25 - £1.40 pm, distance-local,
on my normal s Wales run I do average 500- 600 on the 1st day, finish the run & possibly (hopefully) get. a return load north 2nd- 3rd day back north from avonmouth or similar,
as I said earlier I could possibly cover 8-10k start up costs,
without going into it deeply how does it sound?
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tonyofleeds:
AlexBarclay:
Just gonna jump right in with the O licence comment… every individual “owner driver” would need their own operator’s licence, 8k cash in the back.Sent from my SM-A920F using Tapatalk
thanks for that Alex, I didn’t realise, I thought a cpc holder could work for multiple clients, I haven’t got a cpc, only the driver one, so my options would be take the cpc myself or hire a holder?
Hi tonyofleeds,
Alex has answered your question, but it may be that I can explain it a bit differently for you…
A CPC holder and an Operator’s Licence are two different things.
An Operator’s Licence must have a nominated CPC qualified Transport Manager, which you’re not quite correctly calling just “a CPC holder” at this time.
In the scenario you’ve described, each new owner-driver would need their own Operator’s Licence and would each need to fulfil the requirements in order to be issued with and hold that licence.
A CPC holder could then work exactly as Alex described ( = as the nominated Transport Manager,) and could even work for a few of the new Owner-Drivers at the same time. In this instance, you could think of it as a few owner-drivers ‘clubbing together.’
For still more clarity for you… some larger companies have several “CPC holders” on their staff, but would still need at least one nominated ( = CPC qualified and named on the Operator’s Licence) person as the Transport Manger. This is then the person who takes responsibility for regulatory compliance.
If you decide to go it alone, you could obtain your own Operator CPC and become your own CPC holder and Transport Manager all in one go, the downside being that this would take quite some time. On the other hand, you could agree a deal with a CPC holder who is willing to act as your Transport Manager, then he/she might even be able to assist you with your Operator Licence application. This would save you a fair amount of time if you need to act quickly.
In a strange but perfectly legal quirk, some classroom-based Operator CPC courses can offer you Driver CPC hours for taking the Operator CPC course, so you could max out your Driver CPC hours at the same time if the timing fits for you. If you go this route, I’d suggest that you’d best discuss this with the Operator CPC course provider to get your personal options explained to you.
Here’s your freebie from an ex-Operator CPC tutor… It is not legally possible to have several independent owner-drivers all on the same Operator’s Licence. If you were discovered involving yourself in such a scheme, it might then become a possibility that your truck could be impounded.
Another thought is that you should consider that your erstwhile colleagues might eventually become your competitors!!
You have a few options, and I’d like to wish you good luck in whatever you decide. 
And you dont NEED £8k in the bank, merely access to that sort of money, in the form of cash savings, loan or an overdraft, but you must provide proof if needed.
And you can specify your inspection length on your vehicle,(Within reason.) providing you keep to it. I am currently an external CPC holder on a licence, (Due to go on full time soon.) and the vehicles and trailers we run, are on 10 weeks for the trailers, and 8 weeks for the units, and currently running a green OCRS score.
Ken.
Not wanting to ■■■■ on your chips, but why are they getting rid of their own transport? And what will they do if none of the drivers become OD’s?
Use sub contractors I’d imagine. They will know exactly how much it’s costs them to distribute their goods on their own vehicles, and will get prices from logistics companies to move their gear. So you’re not going to make a killing on it as you’ll be competing with these.
You’re in a good position as you have a route to work, which is a lot better than the usual “I’ve bought a v8 scania does anyone know how to get work for it?” crowd that asks questions on here.
There aren’t a lot of owner drivers around any more as you can get the same if not more wages working for a company, and a hell of a lot less risk. Imagine you were an OD now running as a limited company, with no work, you can’t claim furlough pay, and you’re still paying out for your lease and maintenance on the truck and rent to park, and insurance, and tax. How do you think you would manage? Compared to working for someone that’s on 80% of their average wage to sit at home pulling themselves off.
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Got to be off your head to be thinking of becoming an OD in this climate. A fast-track to kissing good-bye all your savings and house.
wait for redundancy and get a job with whoever takes over the work.
money in the bank,steady job that you can change anytime you wish with virtually no risk compared to running as a 1 man band.
whatever rate you start off at,then a subby will cut it and take you out.
if you need to start off factoring the work to lose 5% then you will be broke after a year and looking for a job.
if your doing the work now,then that stands you in good stead to work with whoever takes it on.
Quinny:
And you dont NEED £8k in the bank, merely access to that sort of money, in the form of cash savings, loan or an overdraft, but you must provide proof if needed.And you can specify your inspection length on your vehicle,(Within reason.) providing you keep to it. I am currently an external CPC holder on a licence, (Due to go on full time soon.) and the vehicles and trailers we run, are on 10 weeks for the trailers, and 8 weeks for the units, and currently running a green OCRS score.
Ken.
You won`t get a loan or overdraft in this climate, in fact, he would be lucky to get an appointment with a lender…they are risk-averse at the best of times, so what do you think they will be like today ?
£8k cash will get you absolutely zilch, so £8k with strings will be a short & painful exercise in how not to start a transport business [IMO]….
coiler:
Not wanting to ■■■■ on your chips, but why are they getting rid of their own transport? And what will they do if none of the drivers become OD’s?
Use sub contractors I’d imagine. They will know exactly how much it’s costs them to distribute their goods on their own vehicles, and will get prices from logistics companies to move their gear. So you’re not going to make a killing on it as you’ll be competing with these.
You’re in a good position as you have a route to work, which is a lot better than the usual “I’ve bought a v8 scania does anyone know how to get work for it?” crowd that asks questions on here.There aren’t a lot of owner drivers around any more as you can get the same if not more wages working for a company, and a hell of a lot less risk. Imagine you were an OD now running as a limited company, with no work, you can’t claim furlough pay, and you’re still paying out for your lease and maintenance on the truck and rent to park, and insurance, and tax. How do you think you would manage? Compared to working for someone that’s on 80% of their average wage to sit at home pulling themselves off.
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Sound right.
The company are getting rid of their own transport to save trouble and money. They may well start with the best of intentions in giving ex-employees first shout at the work, but how long will that last? The first cold wind, and the work will go the cheapest out there to protect the production side.
Unless you have a cast iron contract to shift those goods, you are on shaky ground.
I wish you well, but go into this with your eyes open.
Google London gazette and then put Haulage and transport in to the key word search on the insolvency announcement page , then put you works post code in the search as well [emoji20]
Take a look it how many have filled for bankruptcy big and small
I’ve seen 2 big container firms on there
One from Cardiff and one Southampton firm both gone pop since begging of April
Sent while in furlough
blue estate:
One from Cardiff and one Southampton firm both gone pop since begging of April
Which ones?
Ken.
Quinny:
blue estate:
One from Cardiff and one Southampton firm both gone pop since begging of AprilWhich ones?
Ken.
L H transport , Cardiff container link
Sent while in furlough
Cardiff Container link gone. I nearly took a job there in March. That was before i got on Jenkos reasons for leaving. Only Pentalver/Freightliner are left in Cardiff
On another site, I think there are a few that are scathing they have gone, owing substantial amounts out.
Ken.
thanks for all your comments, all very helpful, & a hell of a lot to think about, not all good as it turns out, like I said it was a phone call & a chat, I’m doing some major working outs to do before anything else, with the help of an accountant acquaintance who worked for solo transport cos, & a lot of phone calls,
been told to look at 3.5t hotshot euro work including removals/ courier by the accountant with less hassle all round,
but that’s for another time & place…
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tonyofleeds:
thanks for all your comments, all very helpful, & a hell of a lot to think about, not all good as it turns out, like I said it was a phone call & a chat, I’m doing some major working outs to do before anything else, with the help of an accountant acquaintance who worked for solo transport cos, & a lot of phone calls,
been told to look at 3.5t hotshot euro work including removals/ courier by the accountant with less hassle all round,
but that’s for another time & place…Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
Same ■■■■, different weight…hotshot work has been crucified by the polish, just hang over a bridge on any motorway in the UK, and watch these “sprinter tilts” flying about on PL plates…they are very cheap apparently…tell your accountant to stick to the numbers, he isn’t looking at the bigger picture I`m afraid…
Stanley Mitchell:
tonyofleeds:
thanks for all your comments, all very helpful, & a hell of a lot to think about, not all good as it turns out, like I said it was a phone call & a chat, I’m doing some major working outs to do before anything else, with the help of an accountant acquaintance who worked for solo transport cos, & a lot of phone calls,
been told to look at 3.5t hotshot euro work including removals/ courier by the accountant with less hassle all round,
but that’s for another time & place…Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
Same [zb], different weight…hotshot work has been crucified by the polish, just hang over a bridge on any motorway in the UK, and watch these “sprinter tilts” flying about on PL plates…they are very cheap apparently…tell your accountant to stick to the numbers, he isn’t looking at the bigger picture I`m afraid…
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+1
that would be the truth of it.
your company is offloading the logistics side because thats the side that runs at a loss or at a pittance that is not worth the hassle.
get quotes from shiply,or look on ebay for euro deliveries/relocation ect ans if you were wanting a removal done.
check the expenses,realise they are working for peanuts,then realise that the flipflops are chopping even that rate to death anyway.
your moneymaker will be a pallet or two of wine/vodka,and tabs from belgium or spain. ( andorra has attractive prices) as a part backload if you cant find any brain surgeons and doctors to fill out with. i believe its £1500 cash per head is the going rate?