rearaxle:
What was the average training hours car to artic pre 97…and all trucks would be manual back then. Unlike today.
7 days of 2 to 1 with tests on day 7
All manual and usually straight 6 gearboxes on training vehicles with a 30 foot flatbed trailer
In the 70s mine was 5 days Monday to Friday with the test early Friday pm.
Training was 2 to 1 but the other bloke was an experienced driver who did the test on Wednesday, so Thursday and Friday morning was 1 to 1.
I took my straight to class 1 in '76, a 9 day course with test on the Friday 10th day.
Cost £296 then, and after passing i went on general on a decent paying outfit averaging some £93 gross a week, so cost around 3 or 4 times a decent for the time wage, maybe 5 times a typical take home wage…wonder how that compares to now?
The long training period allowed near enough a full day on the maneuvering pad, and my instructor (Jimmy Morrison) to whom i am eternally grateful) wasn’t happy with teaching you to pass the test maneuver he wanted you competent, the forward test going round the cones he wanted you to be able to reverse it by the end of the day.
Had the course been shorter, anyone’s guess whether i would have passed, as far as i’m aware Export and General’s driving school didn’t offer any shorter courses, 10 day was what they deemed right, in retrospect i’m glad i went with them because it stood me in good stead.
One funny moment on the course, the other trainee waas driving, thankfully, and on the slippery wet (previously melted tarmac due to the hot summer) road from Leighton Buzzard to Hemel, he took a corner a shade too fast, lost it and we ended up nose down in the ditch, thankfully all unhurt.
I’m pleased for new drivers that we’ve resumed straight to class 1 testing, might take a bit longer to train but get it all done in one.
stu675:
Pete, I can’t answer which is best yet as I’ve never set foot in either, but I can tell you what I want to and have booked to do.
I cancelled my C training and just booked CE training. It was going to be a C test on the fifth day, but instead, it will be a CE test on the eighth day. It saves me £1,000. I’ve just started driving C1 while I wait for my training, I’ve no great desire to start with C’s but will go with whatever my trainer offers.
I hope it happens this year!
What was the cost for 7 days n test on 8th if you don’t mind me asking.
stu675:
I cancelled my C training and just booked CE training. It was going to be a C test on the fifth day, but instead, it will be a CE test on the eighth day.
I think it could be useful if people highlighted exact durations and ratios - for example, is that 8 full days, 1-to-1?
flammen:
I would definitely say for someone who’s not driven a big van it would definitely be advantageous to do a few “laps” with a Rigid. If only to get used to the higher driving position and the inevitable difficulties that arises as a result of that, [blind spots, judging gaps etc]. And it means they can get familiar with driving a truck, being forward of the front axle is not what most people are used to when manoeuvring. I think it just makes sense in that way.
I wouldn’t have thought many training companies are going to hold a rigid back so a trainee can have a short go in one, I would have thought the rigid driving is going to be a day or two or nothing.
The learner is going to have to get used to driving a large vehicle with all that it entails and I would have thought that having to step up to a longer vehicle that bends in the middle part way through the training is adding unnecessary complications.
If a wannabee HGV driver really lacks confidence there may be a psychological advantage to starting in a shorter rigid vehicle, but otherwise I suspect the disadvantages of starting in a rigid then changing to an artic may outweigh any possible advantages.
Having said that, I suppose only time will make it clear what the success and failure rate is in each possible scenario, it’s going to be a learning curve for the trainers as well as the trainees
No, I didn’t mean laps literally, that’s why I had it in lights.
You don’t start racers on a MotoGP bike or an F1 car, there’s a hierarchical process. Tortoise and the hare if you ask me, I’d say the ones overly eager to skip the rigid process are probably gung ho. I think people who treat it seriously and with respect are likely going to take the opportunity to drive rigid before artic.
At the end of the day, It would make more sense to do a driving assessment in a rigid at least those who appear good enough to the instructor can progress more quickly than those who need a bit more time.
stu675:
Pete, I can’t answer which is best yet as I’ve never set foot in either, but I can tell you what I want to and have booked to do.
I cancelled my C training and just booked CE training. It was going to be a C test on the fifth day, but instead, it will be a CE test on the eighth day. It saves me £1,000. I’ve just started driving C1 while I wait for my training, I’ve no great desire to start with C’s but will go with whatever my trainer offers.
I hope it happens this year!
What are you paying for straight-to-C+E vs. C then C+E route?
Juddian:
.
Cost £296 then, and after passing i went on general on a decent paying outfit averaging some £93 gross a week, so cost around 3 or 4 times a decent for the time wage, maybe 5 times a typical take home wage…wonder how that compares to now?
.
If you can realise the savings of straight to CE, then maybe the same ratio? What’s a wage now, £600? My course is £2500 so 4 weeks to earn it back.
To answer other questions my course will be 7am to 3pm, 8 hrs, don’t know what breaks will be, 2 trainees to 1
I was expecting my subsequent CE to be £1500, instead it is just an extra £500 on top of what I had agreed for C.
Pete S:
Like it says, let’s have a sensible discussion on whether folks think they should stick with the current system of C then CE or if they would prefer to go direct to CE. And, if that’s the case, is a day or 2 on a C desirable?
I’m not expressing an opinion, except to say that any configuration of training delivered by a good instructor with correct facilities and a decent vehicle will succeed. But I’m interested in your views. (Clearly those folks with a current C provisional are in a strange situation).
Fire away, Pete S
I am in that situation myself. Passed my Theories recently, and scheduled to do my Cat C practical 22nd November (with 3 days training 17th-19th). Once I have passed this I can get my DCPC and Tacho and carry on with some element of employment until my Cat C+E is scheduled - probably in the New Year. I also have an ADR course scheduled for December 9which will go towards my DCPC).
If I am being honest, I think I am happy doing the C then the C+E seperate. As has been said before, this is only my personal opinion, but I think based on me having to wait till 15th November before resubmitting for my Provisional (especially with the amount they will be receiving around then) and then having to book a test after I receive it back (god only knows how long that will take), I could probably have BOTH courses complete. Even if I haven’t, at least I can work a little while waiting for my C+E practical.
I really don’t know if I would be of the same opinion if I was a few months later, but I think I would still prefer a couple days driving a C before jumping into an Artic - I may be wrong we shall see lol.
I think some of the trainers are going to be a nightmare with the changes tbf - mine is not the most responsive to emails to say the least.
Juddian:
.
Cost £296 then, and after passing i went on general on a decent paying outfit averaging some £93 gross a week, so cost around 3 or 4 times a decent for the time wage, maybe 5 times a typical take home wage…wonder how that compares to now?
.
If you can realise the savings of straight to CE, then maybe the same ratio? What’s a wage now, £600? My course is £2500 so 4 weeks to earn it back.
To answer other questions my course will be 7am to 3pm, 8 hrs, don’t know what breaks will be, 2 trainees to 1
I was expecting my subsequent CE to be £1500, instead it is just an extra £500 on top of what I had agreed for C.
So all in all, costs about the same as it did 45 years ago by the time you’ve got your artic ticket.
Pete S:
Like it says, let’s have a sensible discussion on whether folks think they should stick with the current system of C then CE or if they would prefer to go direct to CE. And, if that’s the case, is a day or 2 on a C desirable?
I’m not expressing an opinion, except to say that any configuration of training delivered by a good instructor with correct facilities and a decent vehicle will succeed. But I’m interested in your views. (Clearly those folks with a current C provisional are in a strange situation).
Fire away, Pete S
Personally I want to go straight to ce
I have a pre 97 licence and am use to driving all types of vehicles from cars to 18tonners with a 26ft trailer behind it
I have also shunted artics around and have experience in coupling up
I’m.glad that the coupling up and reversing are separate from the test as I think on the day the reversing would be what stuffs me up buy now you pratice reversing then get tested on it and hopefully that will give you a better of chance of passing
The same goes with the coupling up
After much debate, I’ve settled on C then C+E, if for no other reason than I get experience of both, and after passing C it takes the pressure off C+E and enables me to find work as well.
TruckerGuy:
After much debate, I’ve settled on C then C+E, if for no other reason than I get experience of both, and after passing C it takes the pressure off C+E and enables me to find work as well.
Thise are my exact reasons as well…Good choice as far as I’m concerned.
I did enquire about going straight to a class one a few weeks ago. I enquired online. When they phoned up they insisted that the law is you still have to drive a class 2 for a few days then you can drive a class 1. I did say I have been a bus driver for years but they still said I would still have to get use to the size of the vehicle even though I have driven coaches and buses that are bigger than a class 2. Does that make sense ?
Craig2222:
I did enquire about going straight to a class one a few weeks ago. I enquired online. When they phoned up they insisted that the law is you still have to drive a class 2 for a few days then you can drive a class 1. I did say I have been a bus driver for years but they still said I would still have to get use to the size of the vehicle even though I have driven coaches and buses that are bigger than a class 2. Does that make sense ?
No it does not make sense
It seems a provider does not know what they are talking about
Only reason for them to say that is I think is for them to get extra money out of me to do a few days in a class 2. I can understand them to advise me to drive a few days in a class two if I have never driven a large vehicle before but I have for many years.
Craig2222:
I did enquire about going straight to a class one a few weeks ago. I enquired online. When they phoned up they insisted that the law is you still have to drive a class 2 for a few days then you can drive a class 1. I did say I have been a bus driver for years but they still said I would still have to get use to the size of the vehicle even though I have driven coaches and buses that are bigger than a class 2. Does that make sense ?
The class 2 I’m doing my training in is more like a 7.5t vehicle. I would certainly find lane positioning a lot easier in something bigger As a former bus driver they have done me a reduced rate/duration course, 1 1/2 days training and half day test for £900.
I’ve gone the class 2 route partly because i was too impatient to wait for the government timeline announcement (already have provisional and test booked later this week). Also, because I was expecting a delay getting CE training and test booked. At least this way I can get 2-3 months class 2 experience while I wait for CE training early next year.
Jibber:
I’ve gone the class 2 route partly because i was too impatient to wait for the government timeline announcement (already have provisional and test booked later this week). Also, because I was expecting a delay getting CE training and test booked. At least this way I can get 2-3 months class 2 experience while I wait for CE training early next year.
There is no right or wrong way of going about it - everyone is different and it can often depend on availability/needs/confidence/finances.
In reality, it seems the ‘direct’ route to CE from car will save the average Joe a few hundred quid at best.
Jibber:
I’ve gone the class 2 route partly because i was too impatient to wait for the government timeline announcement (already have provisional and test booked later this week). Also, because I was expecting a delay getting CE training and test booked. At least this way I can get 2-3 months class 2 experience while I wait for CE training early next year.
There is no right or wrong way of going about it - everyone is different and it can often depend on availability/needs/confidence/finances.
In reality, it seems the ‘direct’ route to CE from car will save the average Joe a few hundred quid at best.
Best of luck
I wonder whether the pass rate will be lower going straight from car to artic - if so, then the few hundred quid saved is going to be wiped out for a lot of people anyway.
Jibber:
I’ve gone the class 2 route partly because i was too impatient to wait for the government timeline announcement (already have provisional and test booked later this week). Also, because I was expecting a delay getting CE training and test booked. At least this way I can get 2-3 months class 2 experience while I wait for CE training early next year.
There is no right or wrong way of going about it - everyone is different and it can often depend on availability/needs/confidence/finances.
In reality, it seems the ‘direct’ route to CE from car will save the average Joe a few hundred quid at best.
The driving school I have phoned up I explained to them I have driven buses and coaches that are bigger than a class 2. He could not give me any other explanation than you have to get use to the size of the vehicle. I told him I have years of experience driving large vehicles so why would I still need to get use to the size ?. He then started to say that it’s a government requirement when he couldn’t answer me. I think there is a few driving schools that are not liking this new class 1 rule coming in because maybe they will lose money.
Craig2222:
The driving school I have phoned up I explained to them I have driven buses and coaches that are bigger than a class 2. He could not give me any other explanation than you have to get use to the size of the vehicle. I told him I have years of experience driving large vehicles so why would I still need to get use to the size ?. He then started to say that it’s a government requirement when he couldn’t answer me. I think there is a few driving schools that are not liking this new class 1 rule coming in because maybe they will lose money.
They’ll lose money if they have a big class 2 fleet that nobody is interested in anymore, and a shortage of class 1 vehicles.
Sounds like you need to try some other trainers, whereabouts are you?
As a former bus driver they have done me a reduced rate/duration course, 1 1/2 days training and half day test for £900.