pete 359:
Hi Dennis and Dai,
Those memories aren’t boring me mate,i can assure you.I think Bernie told me it was new in 1967 or 68? The Atki in the article,was so i am told? a seed vehicle supplied discounted to JR,for vehicle evaluation whilst at work.I echo your thoughts on the Brown V Fuller,no contest imo.They were that good then that they still use them now! Can’t recall the last time i saw a Dai Brown box in a new truck? Thanks for the Maldwyn Davies shots,i remember the firm well.when i had my F88 one year at the Swansea festival of Transport he came across and introduced himself to me,a really nice guy. i met him again several times at a few other events.
regards Andrew.
I think it was probably '69 Andrew as the last MK1’s were F reg 68’s and those Silver Knights were basically MK 1 chassis with the early Borderer cab fitted . I reckon Chris Gardener could give us exact “pin point” dates. Bloody interesting though all the same !! Cheers Dennis.
It is indeed a Mk.2 ‘Silver Knight’ and must have been registered between August 1969 and July 1970. As the owner of a Fuller-equipped, 6LXB-engined Mk.2 ‘Silver Knight’ myself, I can tell you that it absolutely transforms the wagon. Mine was originally fitted with a DB 6-speed, and was then modified in the late 70s to take an RTO-610. These days it has an RTO-609 out of an ERF, but it can still climb a house side whilst cruising comfortably at 60-ish, whilst being much more relaxing and rewarding to drive.
Interesting to read that JRT used to move the motors on after only a year - pretty unusual for premium motors in those days, I would have thought
Paul John:
Tremendous photo’s Andrew. The older lorries seem to have character and the guys that drove them tough as old boots.
Can anyone put a model type to the van in the photo with the BRS Dodge, J4s were square, that one is rounder, possibly J2? The JU250 which came much later seemed to be a mix of both!
Regards Paul
The van is an Austin or Morris (can’t see the grille!) J2 Paul.
Hi Andrew,that was some game,excitingfrom start to end the boys were epic i had a chat to your in-laws in the club last night the club was bouncing all night.
Regards Tony.
beaver 680:
Hi Andrew,that was some game,excitingfrom start to end the boys were epic i had a chat to your in-laws in the club last night the club was bouncing all night.
Regards Tony.
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the reply.An outstanding rugby game and so good for our town,shame the council didn’t do anything to commemorate it! We left the rugby club whilst the party was still in full swing.
Regards Andrew.
pete 359:
Hi Dennis and Dai,
Those memories aren’t boring me mate,i can assure you.I think Bernie told me it was new in 1967 or 68? The Atki in the article,was so i am told? a seed vehicle supplied discounted to JR,for vehicle evaluation whilst at work.I echo your thoughts on the Brown V Fuller,no contest imo.They were that good then that they still use them now! Can’t recall the last time i saw a Dai Brown box in a new truck? Thanks for the Maldwyn Davies shots,i remember the firm well.when i had my F88 one year at the Swansea festival of Transport he came across and introduced himself to me,a really nice guy. i met him again several times at a few other events.
regards Andrew.
I think it was probably '69 Andrew as the last MK1’s were F reg 68’s and those Silver Knights were basically MK 1 chassis with the early Borderer cab fitted . I reckon Chris Gardener could give us exact “pin point” dates. Bloody interesting though all the same !! Cheers Dennis.
It is indeed a Mk.2 ‘Silver Knight’ and must have been registered between August 1969 and July 1970. As the owner of a Fuller-equipped, 6LXB-engined Mk.2 ‘Silver Knight’ myself, I can tell you that it absolutely transforms the wagon. Mine was originally fitted with a DB 6-speed, and was then modified in the late 70s to take an RTO-610. These days it has an RTO-609 out of an ERF, but it can still climb a house side whilst cruising comfortably at 60-ish, whilst being much more relaxing and rewarding to drive.
Interesting to read that JRT used to move the motors on after only a year - pretty unusual for premium motors in those days, I would have thought
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
Hi punchy dan ,the truck looks great with the signwrighting on it where was you heading off to ,I thought it was you coming towards me the morning cheers John
Bewick:
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
You’re welcome, Dennis
Yes, the 220 ■■■■■■■■ in particular, was pretty hopeless with a 6-speed Brown, especially if it was a high-geared motor. If you wound it up to max revs, and then changed up, it would drop straight onto 1500 rpm, which was its peak torque - OK so far but… what if you’re going up a hill?? By the time you’d matched the revs you’d no chance of holding the new gear. Also, the gap between 4th and 5th was wider than the others, so it would arrive in 5th about 150 rpm below peak torque, and then couldn’t hold the gear on even a gentle climb if it was fully freighted.
Having said that, Bowker spec’d the Brown box in their double shifted motors because they reckoned that the night trunk men weren’t bright enough to cope with a range-change gearbox!
Bewick:
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
You’re welcome, Dennis
Yes, the 220 ■■■■■■■■ in particular, was pretty hopeless with a 6-speed Brown, especially if it was a high-geared motor. If you wound it up to max revs, and then changed up, it would drop straight onto 1500 rpm, which was its peak torque - OK so far but… what if you’re going up a hill?? By the time you’d matched the revs you’d no chance of holding the new gear. Also, the gap between 4th and 5th was wider than the others, so it would arrive in 5th about 150 rpm below peak torque, and then couldn’t hold the gear on even a gentle climb if it was fully freighted.
Having said that, Bowker spec’d the Brown box in their double shifted motors because they reckoned that the night trunk men weren’t bright enough to cope with a range-change gearbox!
Hiya Chris, your comment about Bowkers speccing the DB 6:600 box confirms my recollection of years ago that any “new” innovation which deviated from the , then, accepted principals i.e. that David Brown were the “de rigour” box and this new fangled American box would be a guaranteed disaster was correct. From painful experience I certainly found out which box was the most reliable and kinder to the 205/220 ■■■■■■■ engines. Cheers Dennis.
I wonder if that was why when our first Sed Ak 400 came fitted with a 180 Gardner and six speed DB box it was soon returned and changed for the DB eight speed range change one? I don’t believe the eight speeder had any problems apart from the range change set up, I contacted Sed Ak’s and spoke to the ‘Technical Officer’ who told me he had no idea what the fault could be and to let them know if and when I cured it! Can’t remember now just how it was sorted but I didn’t tell them. I remember that you had to be spot on with gearchanging compared to a Fuller though.
windrush:
I wonder if that was why when our first Sed Ak 400 came fitted with a 180 Gardner and six speed DB box it was soon returned and changed for the DB eight speed range change one? I don’t believe the eight speeder had any problems apart from the range change set up, I contacted Sed Ak’s and spoke to the ‘Technical Officer’ who told me he had no idea what the fault could be and to let them know if and when I cured it! Can’t remember now just how it was sorted but I didn’t tell them. I remember that you had to be spot on with gearchanging compared to a Fuller though.
Pete.
Got say Pete that your “handle” is very topical at the moment ! You wasn’t one of them that come over on that ship ? Anyway, back to gear boxes ! I was fortunate never to have come into contact with the infamous DB 8 speed which by all accounts was a right ■■■■■■■ disaster ! The 6:600 was fine behind a 180 LXB, well tolerable but not a patch on the Fuller 610/609’s but it took a while to filter through to the vehicle builders that this indeed was the better spec.Once they started fitting the DB 6:600 behind the ■■■■■■■ trouble soon erupted as I can willing testify ! Cheers Dennis.
smallcoal:
Hi punchy dan ,the truck looks great with the signwrighting on it where was you heading off to ,I thought it was you coming towards me the morning cheers John
Hiya John ,thanks for the compliment I’d been to cwmbran with a drop and was on route to Llanelli for a waste collection ,I did think you’d be about cheers Dan .
We had no issues with the main box on the DB eight speeder Dennis, the vehicle was doing two loads to Essex daily for a while (day and night) and the box was trouble free. It was a light lever action compared to the later fullers as well, however it was only on the fleet for six years which was standard Tilcon practice then.
Oh and yes, I was (quote, ‘one of them’) who came to the UK on the Empire Windrush.
Bewick:
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
You’re welcome, Dennis
Yes, the 220 ■■■■■■■■ in particular, was pretty hopeless with a 6-speed Brown, especially if it was a high-geared motor. If you wound it up to max revs, and then changed up, it would drop straight onto 1500 rpm, which was its peak torque - OK so far but… what if you’re going up a hill?? By the time you’d matched the revs you’d no chance of holding the new gear. Also, the gap between 4th and 5th was wider than the others, so it would arrive in 5th about 150 rpm below peak torque, and then couldn’t hold the gear on even a gentle climb if it was fully freighted.
Having said that, Bowker spec’d the Brown box in their double shifted motors because they reckoned that the night trunk men weren’t bright enough to cope with a range-change gearbox!
Hiya Chris, your comment about Bowkers speccing the DB 6:600 box confirms my recollection of years ago that any “new” innovation which deviated from the , then, accepted principals i.e. that David Brown were the “de rigour” box and this new fangled American box would be a guaranteed disaster was correct. From painful experience I certainly found out which box was the most reliable and kinder to the 205/220 ■■■■■■■ engines. Cheers Dennis.
Fullers were fitted to the roaming, single-shifted motors, but it seems that certain night men tried to use a range change like a splitter, and did untold damage to boxes and clutches
windrush:
I wonder if that was why when our first Sed Ak 400 came fitted with a 180 Gardner and six speed DB box it was soon returned and changed for the DB eight speed range change one? I don’t believe the eight speeder had any problems apart from the range change set up, I contacted Sed Ak’s and spoke to the ‘Technical Officer’ who told me he had no idea what the fault could be and to let them know if and when I cured it! Can’t remember now just how it was sorted but I didn’t tell them. I remember that you had to be spot on with gearchanging compared to a Fuller though.
Pete.
Got say Pete that your “handle” is very topical at the moment ! You wasn’t one of them that come over on that ship ? Anyway, back to gear boxes ! I was fortunate never to have come into contact with the infamous DB 8 speed which by all accounts was a right [zb] disaster ! The 6:600 was fine behind a 180 LXB, well tolerable but not a patch on the Fuller 610/609’s but it took a while to filter through to the vehicle builders that this indeed was the better spec.Once they started fitting the DB 6:600 behind the ■■■■■■■ trouble soon erupted as I can willing testify ! Cheers Dennis.
Dennis and trouble in the same sentence? Surely not??
Bewick:
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
You’re welcome, Dennis
Yes, the 220 ■■■■■■■■ in particular, was pretty hopeless with a 6-speed Brown, especially if it was a high-geared motor. If you wound it up to max revs, and then changed up, it would drop straight onto 1500 rpm, which was its peak torque - OK so far but… what if you’re going up a hill?? By the time you’d matched the revs you’d no chance of holding the new gear. Also, the gap between 4th and 5th was wider than the others, so it would arrive in 5th about 150 rpm below peak torque, and then couldn’t hold the gear on even a gentle climb if it was fully freighted.
Having said that, Bowker spec’d the Brown box in their double shifted motors because they reckoned that the night trunk men weren’t bright enough to cope with a range-change gearbox!
Spot on there 240 G. I had D B in an E R F bad, then took sister on with Fuller, wonderful. Couldn’t get on with the DB 8 though. Cheers Paul
Bewick:
Thanks for the “gen” Chris, I hoped you would come up trumps, but anyway as I’m not an expert on Atky’s I was roughly thereabouts ! You are certainly correct about the improvement the RTO 610/609 boxes made to a motor compared to the DB 6:600 boxes. Cheers Dennis.
You’re welcome, Dennis
Yes, the 220 ■■■■■■■■ in particular, was pretty hopeless with a 6-speed Brown, especially if it was a high-geared motor. If you wound it up to max revs, and then changed up, it would drop straight onto 1500 rpm, which was its peak torque - OK so far but… what if you’re going up a hill?? By the time you’d matched the revs you’d no chance of holding the new gear. Also, the gap between 4th and 5th was wider than the others, so it would arrive in 5th about 150 rpm below peak torque, and then couldn’t hold the gear on even a gentle climb if it was fully freighted.
Having said that, Bowker spec’d the Brown box in their double shifted motors because they reckoned that the night trunk men weren’t bright enough to cope with a range-change gearbox!
Spot on there 240 G. I had D B in an E R F bad, then took sister on with Fuller, wonderful. Couldn’t get on with the DB 8 though. Cheers Paul
Thanks Paul - I’ve never actually driven an 8-speed DB, though people don’t speak particularly well of it
Cheers Dennis.
Can’t remember now just how it was sorted but I didn’t tell them. 
I remember that you had to be spot on with gearchanging compared to a Fuller though.
I’d been to cwmbran with a drop and was on route to Llanelli for a waste collection ,I did think you’d be about cheers Dan .
