DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
No need to shout!
del949:
There is not going to be a new party, it is simply impossible to pretend that there is.
Well I believe there is at present a movement preparing to form a “New party”.
del949:
Absolutley not!
The sheer logistics and expense of starting a new party from scratch is prohibitive.
If I remember correctly the political levy is around 4p per week, so getting the finances for a new party is going to be a long term task!The way forward is to take back control of those organisations that we already have, i.e. the Labour party and the Unions.
The mechanisms of these organisations are already in place, they just need re-aligning.
Although I accept your argument in part, according to the Dept. of BIS (2012) there are 6.4million trade union members in the UK. At 4p/wk that is a total membership contribution of approx. £250,000/wk. The money is potentially there, and I agree, but from a differnet perspective, it’s convincing the membership, rather than the labour party, to re-align to a new party that would be the biggest problem.
Either way, joining a “Union” and swelling membership numbers is the key.
Solly:
Carryfast:
‘…The American economy of the 1950’s/60’s proved that there’s nothing wrong with Capitalism…’'…[zb] me, I must be living in a different world, with different experiences, and different evidential … ah [zb] it, suppose you’ll tell us that the “Banksters” didn’t rip us all off…’
As well as Bliar & the the Gold-selling Muppet, Brown - who was it (ie, the entire Labour Government) that presided over the Banksters whilst spouting ‘…no more boom & bust…’ 
Either way, joining a “Union” and swelling membership numbers is the key.
We completely agree on that, it’s just a pity that so many are still remembering what things used to be like 30-40 years ago and still believing the propaganda put out by the Tory tabloids.
As well as Bliar & the the Gold-selling Muppet, Brown - who was it (ie, the entire Labour Government) that presided over the Banksters whilst spouting '…no more boom & bust…
Remember Keith , that there is a difference between the labour Government (approx 30 people, ministers etc) and the Labour party.
There were many who did not agree with either Blairs policies or Browns actions.
Pretty much the same as now when there are lots of Tories disagreeing with Camerons actions.
The answer is to get true labour supporters to join, attend, vote, and otherwise make their presence felt and to bring the party back to its’ roots, with less university input and more working man input.
del949:
‘…Remember Keith , that there is a difference between the labour Government (approx 30 people, ministers etc) and the Labour party … There were many who did not agree with either Blairs policies or Browns actions … The answer is to get true labour supporters to join, attend, vote, and otherwise make their presence felt and to bring the party back to its’ roots, with less university input and more working man input…’
Maybe a bit like how the theory of communism is a brilliant concept until lemming humans are ‘invited’ to abide by it?
Is it thus that the divisiveness of regionalised tribes in the UK today have fractured democracy to the extent that the undemocratic/socialist EU rules us regardless of which mainstream Lib/Lab/Con puppet one might blindly vote for?
del949:
Either way, joining a “Union” and swelling membership numbers is the key.
We completely agree on that, it’s just a pity that so many are still remembering what things used to be like 30-40 years ago and still believing the propaganda put out by the Tory tabloids.
As well as Bliar & the the Gold-selling Muppet, Brown - who was it (ie, the entire Labour Government) that presided over the Banksters whilst spouting '…no more boom & bust…
Remember Keith , that there is a difference between the labour Government (approx 30 people, ministers etc) and the Labour party.
There were many who did not agree with either Blairs policies or Browns actions.
Pretty much the same as now when there are lots of Tories disagreeing with Camerons actions.The answer is to get true labour supporters to join, attend, vote, and otherwise make their presence felt and to bring the party back to its’ roots, with less university input and more working man input.
Del like minded thinkin’-expand the brotherhood 
My Union has gone to bat and we have won every time a better deal£ £££££- slowly slowly cahtchee monkeyee/management…
del949:
… it’s just a pity that so many are still remembering what things used to be like 30-40 years ago and still believing the propaganda put out by the Tory tabloids.
Nail, Hammer, Head. And herein lies the problem that the Unions and true labour supporters have to overcome.
del949:
Remember Keith , that there is a difference between the labour Government (approx 30 people, ministers etc) and the Labour party.
There were many who did not agree with either Blairs policies or Browns actions.
Pretty much the same as now when there are lots of Tories disagreeing with Camerons actions.The answer is to get true labour supporters to join, attend, vote, and otherwise make their presence felt and to bring the party back to its’ roots, with less university input and more working man input.
These are other points that tend to be overlooked by the “Corporate-media Brainwashed” population who really need to be re-educated in these matters. Big struggle here tho’, methinks.
Solly:
‘…[T]he “Corporate-media Brainwashed” population … really need to be re-educated …’
Since it’s arguably at the core of the thread issue, can anyone suggest a mainstream source or figurehead individual from which those of us so inclined can ‘re-educate’ in order to assist getting a better grip on this 
[My mischievous caveat is that such a font would be a contemporary entity/person and not a European conformist since we are where we are today and the EU’s undemocratic impart has been, remains, and is forecast to be highly significant to conveniently dismiss].
We cant go back to the industrial relations of 30-40 years ago.At that time we had emigration from this Country because lots of people could get a better deal in Canada or Australia.Today we are swamped with Immigration,how will any one get the labour rates up when there are 15 people for every real job.
alamcculloch:
‘… 30-40 years ago … we had emigration from this Country because lots of people could get a better deal in Canada or Australia…’
They’re still going by the plane-load and I’d be amongst them to join family in Oz if I wasn’t too old 
Despite the loss of much young but disillusioned UK talent, the net effect remains an undemocratic and too often un-needed, often EU enabled, largely politically undiscussed but disenfranchising influx to this bloated, distorted, blurrily focussed, uber-liberal and inadequately led, unhealthy place 
The bottom line being that their taxes are wanted/needed - but at what cost to national identity, values & quality of life for established Britons among us 
Great
Happy Keith:
Solly:
‘…[T]he “Corporate-media Brainwashed” population … really need to be re-educated …’Since it’s arguably at the core of the thread issue, can anyone suggest a mainstream source or figurehead individual from which those of us so inclined can ‘re-educate’ in order to assist getting a better grip on this
[My mischievous caveat is that such a font would be a contemporary entity/person and not a European conformist since we are where we are today and the EU’s undemocratic impart has been, remains, and is forecast to be highly significant to conveniently dismiss].
Unfortunately there are no “Mainstream Media” sources or “Figurehead” that could be suggested to help answer your question, as the MSM are “Corporate” financed by very wealthy individuals and institutions that work against true “Democracy” and social justice. This I’m sure you may be aware of.
The “Alternative Media”, I find is helpful in “Re-education” as to the true workings,and it’s knock-on effects of “Government” and “Banking/Finance”.
A couple of really good sources, to start with, of the above info are Prof. Noam Chomsky and John Pilger, and they’re associates.
MediaLens, ZNet, BSNews are others. From these sources anyone interested in what they have to say will be directed to other sites and individuals who know the score and aren’t afraid to publish it.
Carryfast:
Solly:
Carryfast:
The American economy of the 1950’s/60’s proved that there’s nothing wrong with Capitalism…
[zb] me, I must be living in a different world, with different experiences, and different evidential…ah [zb] it, suppose you’ll tell us that the “Banksters” didn’t rip us all off.
I’ll put it another way would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one.Whereas now and in future it won’t really matter because everyone is heading for the same zb living standards as those Russian and Chinese workers have put up with over the years because it’s their zb type of administrations and weak unions that are now calling the shots in the developed western economies not unions like the UAW working under Kennedy’s and LBJ’s .
carryfast
May i suggest you read the folowing book.
“the confessions of a economic hitman” by jon perkins, recriuted by the cia as a economics analyst . This is really how america built its power across the globe by the subversion and exploitation of foreign countries, the pilage of their natural resources in order to matain the status quo.
These policies are still being used today .
We are nothing more than a nodding poodle.
As the trillions that have been spent waging war [economic or otherwise ] goes unchallenged, we scrabble around for the crumbs .
something has seriuosly gone wrong in our morale compass. Here is an interesting take on the subject.
youtube.com/watch?v=oeHzc1h8k7o
twozuluzlu:
Carryfast:
Solly:
Carryfast:
The American economy of the 1950’s/60’s proved that there’s nothing wrong with Capitalism…
I’ll put it another way would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one.Whereas now and in future it won’t really matter because everyone is heading for the same zb living standards as those Russian and Chinese workers have put up with over the years because it’s their zb type of administrations and weak unions that are now calling the shots in the developed western economies not unions like the UAW working under Kennedy’s and LBJ’s .
carryfast
May i suggest you read the folowing book.
“the confessions of a economic hitman” by jon perkins, recriuted by the cia as a economics analyst . This is really how america built its power across the globe by the subversion and exploitation of foreign countries, the pilage of their natural resources in order to matain the status quo.
These policies are still being used today .
We are nothing more than a nodding poodle.
As the trillions that have been spent waging war [economic or otherwise ] goes unchallenged, we scrabble around for the crumbs .
something has seriuosly gone wrong in our morale compass. Here is an interesting take on the subject.
youtube.com/watch?v=oeHzc1h8k7o
I think that accusation would fit America’s and our foreign competition in the form of them dumping stuff on our markets at below cost price as a form of predatory pricing to put our domestic industries out of business.As for natural resources America has always had most of what it needed anyway without needing to go outside to get it with the exception of Canada who can’t really be described as having been exploited.Make no mistake what we’re seeing now is the unbelievable situation of a deliberate transfer of wealth from the west to the east with the Chinese Communist Party being the biggest beneficiary and it’s China which is doing all the exploitation of foreign resources because it has nothing of any value of it’s own.Which will become increasingly obvious as time goes on when China’s agenda will inevitably turn from one of economic exploitation of other countries to one of military force to get what it wants.In general America has been a force of good in the world while,rightly,looking after it’s own interests.
Which leaves the question as to why the sudden change in policy towards China from one of opposition to one of co operation to the point of appeasement and building China’s economy at the expense of it’s own.The plans for which seem to have been made by Reagan.It’s also no surprise that the CIA would also have been supportive of that policy with diversionary tactics used to paint it’s own country in a bad light.
While China has little in the way of natural resources is true.they are buying great swathes of Africa a Continent well endowed with vast wealth in mineral resources.China will very soon hold the balance of world power.
alamcculloch:
While China has little in the way of natural resources is true.they are buying great swathes of Africa a Continent well endowed with vast wealth in mineral resources.China will very soon hold the balance of world power.
I think Pilger isn’t bright enough to work out that it’s China that is exploiting countries like Venezuela not America although no suprise it’s ok in Pilger’s view if it’s under the bs heading of socialism.The ironic thing is that China is using American money to do it since Reagan’s negotiations to transfer US wealth to the Chinese Communist Party. 
I’d sooner gouge me eyes out than join a ■■■■■■ toothless union that fights to protect lazy ■■■■■■■■■ 
Always enjoy reading a well thought out, well reasoned argument with lots of explanation of the the posters reasoning.
lots of mention about working class… what you actually mean is British Working Class.
Unions cant support that because it would be shooting themselves in the foot with both barrels. For years they fought on the grounds of xenophobia is a form of racism… hands tied
Thatchers closure of the pits… inevitable… closure of the closed shop… inevitable… loss of union power… inevitable…
If unions wanted to do anything bar keep their own high wages they would look at the private sector and compete.
Its been mentioned about the high private insurance fees… where is the Union Members scheme? Unions should have a competing scheme, thats how they made their strength historically, not by strikes.
As for telling somebody that is medically unfit to drive a truck anymore that they are perfectly fit for working in planning… whats wrong with that? Incapacity benefit should be for those who are incapacitated from all employment, not just a narrow field.
Unions~? BS organisations harping on about the past regardless of fact or reason. Started reading one of the magazines at the hollies a couple of days ago, first paragraph used con-dem to represent the government… soundbite all you want but it was the union funded liebour (see what i did there) that hid under the false economy of the banking sector encouraging higher and higher mortgage loans to to make a mask over the benefit system compensating for a low wage work force.
Todays ‘austerity’ is a realigning of the work force with the true economy. Council funded and central government funded projects are being stripped out to reveal the true minimal requirements, that that the tax payer should be funding. When unions are honest enough to stop telling you what you want to hear and start standing up for british workers rights I will be interested… feel free to ask if the Polish worker at your place is excluded from membership… but dont be surprised if they try to get you sacked for being racist.
Unions, heal thy self to paraphrase…