.
alamcculloch:
The early 70s was only a boom time for some workers.,I remember the inflation and miners holding the rest of us to ransom.Good riddance to that way of life.I worked with very old machine tools there was little or no investment in workplaces.Then containerisation came along and the rest was history.
The economic growth figures actually show that it was the best the economy ever got.
The miners actually had to go on strike because their pay was lagging behind just about every other industry at the time.Lack of investment was a totally different issue.Then of course we had the idea of wage restraint as an answer to price led inflation under Callaghan and look where that got the place.Although that would take an understanding of the difference between price led inflation as opposed to wage led.No surprise that was all too much for Healey and the Thatcherite tendency in the rank and file of the unions to understand.Which was the reason for the early 1980’s crash and it’s why the economy is where it is now. 
.
FLUNKEY:
I know this is an age old post Baroness Thatcher(rip) topic…but I feel that it may be time to bargain collectively with our employers. Especially with regard to pension funds/job descriptions/working hours e.t.c.? Bring it on
■■■■ me, I must be living in a different world, with different experiences, and different evidential…ah ■■■■ it, suppose you’ll tell us that the “Banksters” didn’t rip us all off.
Solly:
Carryfast:
The American economy of the 1950’s/60’s proved that there’s nothing wrong with Capitalism…
I’ll put it another way would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one.Whereas now and in future it won’t really matter because everyone is heading for the same zb living standards as those Russian and Chinese workers have put up with over the years because it’s their zb type of administrations and weak unions that are now calling the shots in the developed western economies not unions like the UAW working under Kennedy’s and LBJ’s .
As for the unions breaking away from the Labour Party
The breaking away from simply being paymasters without influence in the Labour party is proof that the rank and file membership do have some control over the leaders.
This is exactly what my branch and dozens of others have been fighting for over the last few years.
Eventually the leadership has begun to get the message, it’s taken a long time but it is happening.
At the same time union membership is on the increase, I wonder if there is a connection?
del949:
As for the unions breaking away from the Labour Party
del949:
At the same time union membership is on the increase, I wonder if there is a connection?
There seems a good possibility.
In the unlikely event that those opting out are unlikely to join the labour party, wonder if those opting out of the political levy would consider paying to a newly formed party?
Food for thought for the whole of the “Union” membership/movement?
Carryfast:
…would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one…
Nah! I’m not of the communist persuasion.
Just for you C/F from your “Wayward capitalist” hero.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
― Henry Ford 
Solly:
Carryfast:
…would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one…
Just for you C/F from your “Wayward capitalist” hero.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
― Henry Ford
Which just confirms what I’ve been saying in that the bankers aren’t representative of the ideals of capitalism it’s people like Ford and the unions working with him ( and sometimes against when required ) which built those ideals of the America of the 1950’s/60’s and the Britain of the early 1970’s. 
As for Russia and China suggest you translate the meaning of CCCP which certainly doesn’t relate to Communist and I don’t think there can be any doubt that they were the two regimes which those idiots in the Labour Party here were referring to every time they were singing the Keep the Red Flag Flying Here not Truman’s,Eisenhower’s,Kennedy’s and Ford’s America.
Carryfast:
Solly:
Carryfast:
…would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one…
Just for you C/F from your “Wayward capitalist” hero.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
― Henry FordWhich just confirms what I’ve been saying in that the bankers aren’t representative of the ideals of capitalism it’s people like Ford and the unions working with him ( and sometimes against when required ) which built those ideals of the America of the 1950’s/60’s and the Britain of the early 1970’s.
As for Russia and China suggest you translate the meaning of CCCP which certainly doesn’t relate to Communist and I don’t think there can be any doubt that they were the two regimes which those idiots in the Labour Party here were referring to every time they were singing the Keep the Red Flag Flying Here not Truman’s,Eisenhower’s,Kennedy’s and Ford’s America.
Yo white boy…since I started this thread I have been watchin’ a very confused bunch’ o wannnnnnabezzz. If you pull your ■■■■ out and wanto swing it then fine but I don’t see any really big dicks just a bunch of weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeners.(there are a few exceptions they know whom they are -and all good.)
Don’t worry about -back in the day…■■■■ changes-even gearboxes/immigrants/flip flopz…the issue IS NOW NOT THEN!
The Question Was: SOLIDARITY-JOIN THE UNION OR NOT?
Put up or Shut up…Brother!
Remember the bigger it is… 
.
FLUNKEY:
Carryfast:
Solly:
Carryfast:
…would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one…
Just for you C/F from your “Wayward capitalist” hero.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
― Henry FordWhich just confirms what I’ve been saying in that the bankers aren’t representative of the ideals of capitalism it’s people like Ford and the unions working with him ( and sometimes against when required ) which built those ideals of the America of the 1950’s/60’s and the Britain of the early 1970’s.
As for Russia and China suggest you translate the meaning of CCCP which certainly doesn’t relate to Communist and I don’t think there can be any doubt that they were the two regimes which those idiots in the Labour Party here were referring to every time they were singing the Keep the Red Flag Flying Here not Truman’s,Eisenhower’s,Kennedy’s and Ford’s America.
Yo white boy…since I started this thread I have been watchin’ a very confused bunch’ o wannnnnnabezzz. If you pull your ■■■■ out and wanto swing it then fine but I don’t see any really big dicks just a bunch of weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeners.(there are a few exceptions they know whom they are -and all good.)
Don’t worry about -back in the day…[zb] changes-even gearboxes/immigrants/flip flopz…the issue IS NOW NOT THEN!
The Question Was: SOLIDARITY-JOIN THE UNION OR NOT?Put up or Shut up…Brother!
0
Remember the bigger it is…
The relevant thing in this case,regardless of racial stereotypes,is how good the brains behind the operation are.Of which at least since the end of the 1970’s both the Labour Party and the unions have been a bit short of. 
Therefore the answer to the question is as things stand since that point in time to date it won’t make the much difference because,even if that solidarity was to miraculously appear again,it’s too late because of the anti union laws which have been in place since the 1980’s which aren’t going to be removed in the foreseeable future.Sometimes history is everything.
Carryfast:
FLUNKEY:
Carryfast:
Solly:
Carryfast:
…would you have preferred to have been an American worker working for a big highly unionised employer at that time or a Chinese or Russian one…
Just for you C/F from your “Wayward capitalist” hero.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
― Henry FordWhich just confirms what I’ve been saying in that the bankers aren’t representative of the ideals of capitalism it’s people like Ford and the unions working with him ( and sometimes against when required ) which built those ideals of the America of the 1950’s/60’s and the Britain of the early 1970’s.
As for Russia and China suggest you translate the meaning of CCCP which certainly doesn’t relate to Communist and I don’t think there can be any doubt that they were the two regimes which those idiots in the Labour Party here were referring to every time they were singing the Keep the Red Flag Flying Here not Truman’s,Eisenhower’s,Kennedy’s and Ford’s America.
Yo white boy…since I started this thread I have been watchin’ a very confused bunch’ o wannnnnnabezzz. If you pull your ■■■■ out and wanto swing it then fine but I don’t see any really big dicks just a bunch of weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeners.(there are a few exceptions they know whom they are -and all good.)
Don’t worry about -back in the day…[zb] changes-even gearboxes/immigrants/flip flopz…the issue IS NOW NOT THEN!
The Question Was: SOLIDARITY-JOIN THE UNION OR NOT?Put up or Shut up…Brother!
0
Remember the bigger it is…The relevant thing in this case,regardless of racial stereotypes,is how good the brains behind the operation are.Of which at least since the end of the 1970’s both the Labour Party and the unions have been a bit short of.
Therefore the answer to the question is as things stand since that point in time to date it won’t make the much difference because,even if that solidarity was to miraculously appear again,it’s too late because of the anti union laws which have been in place since the 1980’s which aren’t going to be removed in the foreseeable future.Sometimes history is everything.
CHANGE…CHANGE…CHANGE=www.urtu.com…? Enough said? 
wonder if those opting out of the political levy would consider paying to a newly formed party?
Food for thought for the whole of the “Union” membership/movement?
Absolutley not!
The sheer logistics and expense of starting a new party from scratch is prohibitive.
If I remember correctly the political levy is around 4p per week, so getting the finances for a new party is going to be a long term task!
The way forward is to take back control of those organisations that we already have, i.e. the Labour party and the Unions.
The mechanisms of these organisations are already in place, they just need re-aligning.
del949:
wonder if those opting out of the political levy would consider paying to a newly formed party?
Food for thought for the whole of the “Union” membership/movement?Absolutley not!
The sheer logistics and expense of starting a new party from scratch is prohibitive.
If I remember correctly the political levy is around 4p per week, so getting the finances for a new party is going to be a long term task!The way forward is to take back control of those organisations that we already have, i.e. the Labour party and the Unions.
The mechanisms of these organisations are already in place, they just need re-aligning.
+1. Absolutely %100 right!
del949:
wonder if those opting out of the political levy would consider paying to a newly formed party?
Food for thought for the whole of the “Union” membership/movement?Absolutley not!
The sheer logistics and expense of starting a new party from scratch is prohibitive.
If I remember correctly the political levy is around 4p per week, so getting the finances for a new party is going to be a long term task!The way forward is to take back control of those organisations that we already have, i.e. the Labour party and the Unions.
The mechanisms of these organisations are already in place, they just need re-aligning.
The flaw in that idea is that the Labour Party is now just a name that doesn’t really mean anything having been modified over the years to the point now where it’s just effectively an extension of the whole EU,Globalisation,and banking sector led economy ideology supporting group,just like the Tories and Lib/Dems,that’s got us where we are now.The analogy would be something like a car that had serious design flaws from day 1 and which was then modified creating even worse ones instead of fixing it.There has to be a point where it’s best to scrap the thing and start again which in the case of the Party’s MP’s in government since at least the late 1970’s to date would be no loss and is something that should have been done at that time.
The fact is del,contrary to your ideas of trying to fix the Party by staying with it,the best way of dealing with the issues is for the Unions to turn their backs on the whole lot of them and sideline them thereby making the Party and it’s obviously CBI driven agenda irrelevant.However the issue of finding a way to circumvent the problem of the effective removal of the freedom of association and thereby the right to strike,since the introduction of the outlawing of secondary/sympathy action,will remain and without finding a way of getting that overturned from the nation’s statute books the idea of union solidarity will mean nothing.Which would then still leave the issue of the fact that the internal argument within the union movement,between those that would still want to use that power to follow the bs Socialist cause,instead of putting the country’s economy back where it was in the early 1970’s in terms of economic growth would remain.
I’d suggest that the key to getting those powers back,if at all possible,would be by convincing whoever intends to march into government under the heading of a totally new Party dedicated to that aim,that the unions have chosen to now work under the Capitalist system and that it’s that system which is,ironically,at present,after 34 years of being subject to Thatcherite ideology,now being run for the interests of the Chinese Communist Party not British workers.
I’d suggest that the key to getting those powers back,if at all possible,would be by convincing whoever intends to march into government under the heading of a totally new Party dedicated to that aim
There is not going to be a new party, it is simply impossible to pretend that there is.
The only realistic option is for those workers who still have a few cojones, to bond together within the existing framework and change from within.
Hopefully as things progress those that have only one cojone will be enticed into growing a pair and joining in.
Those without any cojones at all will , as at present, continue to do as their masters tell them.
But the long and short of it is, if the workers don’t do it for themselves, no one else will do it for them!