… could you enlighten me as to how being a member of a union would protect me from an EED?
The above poem should give a clue as would joining a Union. If Unions have enough members to shout out against the injustices of today…Governments would be foolish to ignore them. Cue Greece.
HTH
The problem is that shouting has never been enough it’s always taken hard fought and equally hard won industrial action on a united secondary action basis to get the job done.That idea was knocked out of the British workforce firstly with Thatcher’s election in 1979 and then with the defeat of the miners.Sadly I think it’s all too late now to do anything about that situation and the union movement is to all intents and purposes finished and defeated.IE in the case of those ‘benefits’ of union membership described by del that all sounds good until the inevitable point where the employers say no because there’s no reason why they need to pay up in which case what are the unions going to do about it in their present weakened neutered 21’st century state as opposed to where they stood in 1972.
… could you enlighten me as to how being a member of a union would protect me from an EED?
The above poem should give a clue as would joining a Union. If Unions have enough members to stand firm against the injustices of today…Governments would be foolish to ignore them. Cue Greece.
HTH
The problem is that shouting has never been enough it’s always taken hard fought and equally hard won industrial action on a united secondary action basis to get the job done…
OK C/F fixed that unfortunate choice of word for you.
… could you enlighten me as to how being a member of a union would protect me from an EED?
The above poem should give a clue as would joining a Union. If Unions have enough members to stand firm against the injustices of today…Governments would be foolish to ignore them. Cue Greece.
HTH
The problem is that shouting has never been enough it’s always taken hard fought and equally hard won industrial action on a united secondary action basis to get the job done…
OK C/F fixed that unfortunate choice of word for you.
That might just work in the 21st century but it’ll first need a total re education of Thatcher’s generation and those since being that they passed all her zb on to the recent generations of workers.Personally,judging by what happened in the case of the miners,I think it’s too much of a tall order.Therefore,from the point of view of unions ever getting back to where they were in the early 1970’s,with an economy to match,I’d say it’s game over and it’s all now just a matter of time.
Carryfast:
That might just work in the 21st century but it’ll first need a total re education of Thatcher’s generation and those since being that they passed all her zb on to the recent generations of workers.Personally,judging by what happened in the case of the miners,I think it’s too much of a tall order.Therefore,from the point of view of unions ever getting back to where they were in the early 1970’s,with an economy to match,I’d say it’s game over and it’s all now just a matter of time.
Agreed, and it has been done throughout history. If the Unions can’t turn things around with our “Elected representatives” then they could start a new “Political party” of and for the workers. Or everyone could wise-up to “Government, City of London”, “Corporate MSM” propaganda, the fraudulent “Money system” and “Banksters”. All is not lost. Yet.
If the Unions can’t turn things around with our “Elected representatives” then they could start a new “Political party” of and for the workers.
Alternatively , they could simply take back control of the labour party as witnessed by recent events, leading to Milliband attempting to further distance the labour party from the unions.
del949:
‘…the Post Office is not being privatised. The Royal Mail is…’
Detail noted, cheers
Solly:
Happy Keith:
Solly:
Happy Keith:
‘… the UK government is kow-towing to EU diktats …’ etc
‘…the privately owned IMF, World Bank/Federal Reserve Bank … dictates the national policy of any government…’
‘…It matters not … what’s the point in splitting hairs…?’
‘… The EU … signed up to the IMF have to do as the above mentioned organisations tell them too. They must obey, or else, as they hold the “Pots of gold”…’
Thus my point stands.
Since the Lib/Lab/Con are all pro-EU (upon which we’ve been hoodwinked, blah) the Unions don’t see beyond their tribal vision that all parties are the same lame sheep yet only their lame sheep, ie., Labour/Red is fantastic: Bizarre indeed
All parties are bound to being throttled by EU ambitions but Labour loving unions gloss over this fact and what’s worse, unions are not championing any vote for their members to bin it
It’s all very well feeling loyal at the pit-head about what good happened to UK industrial relations, etc decades ago - but how is that ever likely to empower any 21st century UK worker when the Lib/Lab/Con are all content to be bound to the same oppressive, minimum wage and immigrant loving EU master
You are correct in saying that no union is currently campaigning to leave the EU.
However to imply that the unions do not challenge some EU directives is not true.
Unions do campaign against measures that they feel are detrimental to UK members.
A 1 second Google found this unitetheunion.org/news/eusai … ebyunions/
I am certain that further searches will show many similar actions.
However in general you are correct in stating that the unions have no desire to leave the EU, In fact unions are at present trying to organise pan european, with some success in certain areas.
Perhaps if we cannot leave the EU a pan european union may be the answer to some problems, with solidarity of workers throughout the EU holding the EU parliament to account…but I won’t hold my breath!
del949:
‘…Unions do campaign against measures that they feel are detrimental to UK members…’
Which, since unions are 100% behind the pro-EU Labour Party adequately exposes that mega-flaw of humungous hypocrisy - but never mind that since their endeavour is to hate anything other than their tribal Red Flag
Thus any ‘…campaign…’ against The Big Brother EU via cloth-eared, UK pro-immigrant pee-boy Labour supporters is transparently futile
del949:
‘…the Post Office is not being privatised. The Royal Mail is…’
Detail noted, cheers
Solly:
Happy Keith:
Solly:
Happy Keith:
‘… the UK government is kow-towing to EU diktats …’ etc
‘…the privately owned IMF, World Bank/Federal Reserve Bank … dictates the national policy of any government…’
‘…It matters not … what’s the point in splitting hairs…?’
‘… The EU … signed up to the IMF have to do as the above mentioned organisations tell them too. They must obey, or else, as they hold the “Pots of gold”…’
Thus my point stands.
Since the Lib/Lab/Con are all pro-EU (upon which we’ve been hoodwinked, blah) the Unions don’t see beyond their tribal vision that all parties are the same lame sheep yet only their lame sheep, ie., Labour/Red is fantastic: Bizarre indeed
All parties are bound to being throttled by EU ambitions but Labour loving unions gloss over this fact and what’s worse, unions are not championing any vote for their members to bin it
It’s all very well feeling loyal at the pit-head about what good happened to UK industrial relations, etc decades ago - but how is that ever likely to empower any 21st century UK worker when the Lib/Lab/Con are all content to be bound to the same oppressive, minimum wage and immigrant loving EU master
The fact is if you’ve got a formula which is providing almost 8 % and climbing economic growth as opposed to an economy that’s crashing through the floor at regular intervals between unsustainable ‘recoveries’ and now total stagnation then surely it’s that former formula you need to be using not the latter.The fact that formula just happened to be in place at a certain point in time and was then chucked out by the powers that be for stupid reasons is irrelevant.What matters is that we get back to that formula.The formula in question being a combination of strong unions and non EU membership with a strong domestic manufacturing base not subject to massive import competition.Nor for that matter the even worse situation now of being in the global free market as a whole.
As for the bs idea that the Labour movement has ever been a tribal organisation based on the idea of Socialism/Communism,as I remember it,just as was the case in the States before it’s unions and industrial base was smashed just like ours,that formula in question was about as capitalist as decent capitalism ever got here.While what we’ve got now is actually closer to a Communist system in which those at the top cream off the profits made off the backs of cheap labour etc with the Chinese Communist party being the main beneficiary in the global free market economy.Just as Shore could have told you all those years ago in those days of almost 8% growth.
but never mind that since their endeavour is to hate anything other than their tribal Red Flag
I expected a better argument from you Keith, rather than such a simplistic throwaway rant.
Unions are far from being 100% behind the present labour party, as recent events in electoral candidates has shown.
The unions are behind the Labour party only in as much as that they are the best of a very bad bunch.
There is more to the unions than the leaders pontificating about things, the membership DOES have a voice and it is heard on the occaisions it is raised loud enough.
Most union members are not die hard socialists but simply hard working men and women trying to make their way through life a bit better by negotiating better pay conditions and terms.
The unions of today are a very different animal to the unions of the '60’s, some would say better some would say worse, but certainly very different.
I have never been to a meeting where the ‘red flag’ was actually played or sung and without looking it up would have no idea of the words…
but never mind that since their endeavour is to hate anything other than their tribal Red Flag
I expected a better argument from you Keith, rather than such a simplistic throwaway rant.
Unions are far from being 100% behind the present labour party, as recent events in electoral candidates has shown.
The unions are behind the Labour party only in as much as that they are the best of a very bad bunch.
There is more to the unions than the leaders pontificating about things, the membership DOES have a voice and it is heard on the occaisions it is raised loud enough.
Most union members are not die hard socialists but simply hard working men and women trying to make their way through life a bit better by negotiating better pay conditions and terms.
The unions of today are a very different animal to the unions of the '60’s, some would say better some would say worse, but certainly very different.
I have never been to a meeting where the ‘red flag’ was actually played or sung and without looking it up would have no idea of the words…
As someone who actually looked at the Socialist ideals of a large sector of the Labour Party with an open mind and rejected them I’d say that’s a simplistic argument.What has actually happened since the 1960’s/70’s is that the unions threw the baby out with the bathwater by not just filtering out the raving red agenda while keeping all the rest in regards to unity and militancy as and when required.They actually just applied a blanket approach of appeasement and weakness towards the CBI which the CBI then recognised and inevitaby then jumped on and tore the unions to pieces with a lot of help from Thatcher’s propaganda machine in the form of the Murdoch media.IE you’re right the unions of today are very different.That difference being all for the worse in mostly being a bunch of cowards who are no longer up for a fight and having allowed the CBI and successive governments,including so called ‘Labour’,to walk all over them.Starting with the fact that the TUC didn’t call a general strike against the introduction of secondary action laws and in support of the 1984 miners strike and probably wouldn’t have got the required support from the rank and file of the union movement even if they had have done.While to add insult to injury having also swallowed all the EU and global free market being a good thing for UK workers bs.
but never mind that since their endeavour is to hate anything other than their tribal Red Flag
‘…I expected a better argument from you Keith, rather than such a simplistic throwaway rant…’
Rant? Hardly mate, though defo simplistic by being chuffed-off with the Unite monthly ‘magazine’ propaganda rag - within which they worship everything Labour and despise everything else. Nowt more & nowt less Sounds simple enough to me without getting full-on depressed & dull at what the EU is doing to our workplaces
rambo19:
‘…The trouble with full sick pay is the working man takes the p*ss…’
Maybe that’s because the ‘…working man…’ feels so disenfranchised and disassociated with the undemocratic system ruling the UK from overseas that they fight a pss-take with a pss-take
It kind of makes sense - and is supported by the fact that fewer of the electorate bother to vote
I can see why they’d not bother when the poor saps only have one master lurking behind all the tribes (ie., the EU) to vote for
rambo19:
The trouble with full sick pay is the working man takes the p*ss…
The pish taking is actually all on the part of the government in not accepting a genuine verdict from GP’s and NHS in the case of workers being diagnosed and put off and then putting it all in the hands of private companies who are employed to provide the verdict the government wants to hear.No doubt to save some money in order to keep up our payments to the EU.
The idea of employers providing sick pay is a red herring and bs because employers have the right to terminate employment on grounds of health and capability anyway which is what they usually do in most cases in the event of any major health issues.In which case full sick pay just creates a bigger incentive for the employer to do so quicker.
The unions aren’t bright enough to realise that their job should be all about getting sufficient wages in order for employees to cover themselves with a decent income protection policy which covers their own occupation with a definition of disability that doesn’t require total paralysis from the neck down to claim it.
We have UNITE at our place.
TBH, the drivers can be thier own worst enemies. Don’t fill out defect cards properly/drive anything despite problems with motor/never attend union meetings etc etc.
But, the union reps, past and present seem to be up the managements arse.
It would be nice to see unions and management working together, not against each other.
rambo19:
But, the union reps, past and present seem to be up the managements arse.
It would be nice to see unions and management working together, not against each other.
That sounds like a contradiction.IE how can the unions be considered as being too militant in the 1970’s when you’re saying that they’ve always been crawling to the employers .If the union is doing it’s job then conflict will be the natural outcome in it’s dealings with management because the interests of the two opposing sides are exactly that opposite. At least that is until the managements realise that economic growth and prosperity is dependent on cash flow between all the different sectors that make up the economy in the form of wages being spent,not on how much money can be saved in wages.
Until that time it’ll just be more of the same of employers dictating terms and conditions to the union and the unions just accepting it.While your post just confirms that the union leadership can’t win in being called both militant and crawling to the management at the same time.
Carryfast:
‘… getting sufficient wages in order for employees to cover themselves with a decent income protection policy which covers their own occupation…’
Learnt this today when researching a potential ‘Loss of Earnings’ insurance policy for a house move & new mortgage happening soon.
HGV/LGV driver’s premiums for such policies are flippin’ monster
So guess what …it won’t be happening so I’ll henceforth be even more ‘Mr H&S by-the-book’ to avoid getting crocked by negligence, etc, etc and I’ll be keeping the fact remembered that I’m ‘High Risk’ when any low risk desk-jockey tries to jack me with bolleaux.
Indeed, a whisper of the realities affecting our status is surely due to the Shop Steward, methinks
So the answer to the question ‘…SOLIDARITY=Join the Union or Not?…’ on this issue alone is a defo ‘Yes’
Carryfast:
‘… getting sufficient wages in order for employees to cover themselves with a decent income protection policy which covers their own occupation…’
Learnt this today when researching a potential ‘Loss of Earnings’ insurance policy for a house move & new mortgage happening soon.
HGV/LGV driver’s premiums for such policies are flippin’ monster
So guess what …it won’t be happening so I’ll henceforth be even more ‘Mr H&S by-the-book’ to avoid getting crocked by negligence, etc, etc and I’ll be keeping the fact remembered that I’m ‘High Risk’ when any low risk desk-jockey tries to jack me with bolleaux.
Indeed, a whisper of the realities affecting our status is surely due to the Shop Steward, methinks
So the answer to the question ‘…SOLIDARITY=Join the Union or Not?…’ on this issue alone is a defo ‘Yes’
The fact is,bearing in mind all the different medical issues that can put a driver out of work,joining the union in that case is just a case of throwing your future future financial security to the mercy of the bs socialist status quo of the so called incapacity benefits system which effectively is just an overpriced policy covering the eventuality of total paralysis even those benefits being worthless anyway.Which is just a symptom of the unions actually working against their own interests by not passing on the real costs of decent income protection cover into the economy by way of sufficient wage demands all to save the employers money.
.If the union is doing it’s job then conflict will be the natural outcome in it’s dealings with management because the interests of the two opposing sides are exactly that opposite.