Sleeping in warehouse, legal or not?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi folks, I have a health and safety question regarding my employers policy of having drivers sleep overnight in a warehouse whilst their truck is serviced overnight. I believe this practice to be wrongful and demeaning and I was hoping others may be able to help me regarding this.
I am based at a depot that has no workshop facility and when my truck is due for service it is done overnight at our main yard. This means a night out and no truck to sleep in. Rather than put the driver up for the night in one of the many nearby hotels or b&b’s my company insist on their drivers having to sleep in one of two rooms that can be best described as like police cells within a warehouse. This warehouse has nobody on duty at night and can contain hazardous materials. There are smoke detectors but most of the doors within the building are locked. The warehouse does have vehicular traffic coming and going throughout the night as well as drivers coming in and out to use the washroom and canteen which are right beside these cells. This makes getting a proper rest almost impossible.
I refused to sleep in one of these rooms last week and was brought before one of the directors. I was told that i would sleep where ever they deemed appropriate and at the end of the arguement that followed i was given a verbal warning for my attitute! I must also note that the director when asked if he would be prepared to sleep in these rooms stated that he wouldn’t and he then went on to tell me that this was because he isn’t a driver.
I have two main questions regarding this. Firstly is it indeed legal to have staff sleep in commercial premises? And secondly would you do it legal or not? Ironically when given my verbal warning I was told that my behaviour was not what he expected from a ‘professional driver’. Seems that professional standards only apply when it suits as asking drivers to sleep in a warehouse doesn’t tally with my expectations as a professional.

What say you folks?

2

I would tell him to ■■■■ off. It really is THAT simple. :unamused:

3

This topic along with the one currently above it in the listings ie ambition, only goes to show the lack of proffessional status we enjoy as drivers. Its a dead end job reasonably well paid for just buckling down and getting on with it. I do it as a last resort after my business failed after twenty years and havng made a decent living. Ido it for a reasonable wage and not being stood over all day by management. The many downsides I just shrug off and cosole myself with a trade of between earning a crust and not. If I ever thought about whether this aspect or that is unfair or demeaning I would think it time to get out

4

i would say he is out of order, and no friggin way would i do that.
you are required by law to have 9 or 11 hrs undisturbed rest.
so tell him to go get sha£ted and go home for the night or tell him that you will see him in court.
you all should grow some balls and stick together.

also it is fraud when claiming a night out at base.

5

greggy:
i would say he is out of order, and no friggin way would i do that.
you are required by law to have 9 or 11 hrs undisturbed rest.
so tell him to go get sha£ted and go home for the night or tell him that you will see him in court.
you all should grow some balls and stick together.

also it is fraud when claiming a night out at base.

Stick together how does that work? :laughing: If you can overcome the age old problem of getting everyone to pull in the right direction on any given point you will have cracked the impossible :smiley:

6

greggy:
also it is fraud when claiming a night out at base.

Looking at it the night out is in a different depot :wink:

And no I wouldn’t do it :wink:

7

It’s a good job your boss doesn’t own W H Bowkers or Harry Parkinsons because you might be catching Zzzz on a permanent basis.

Is there any reason why you can’t go home?

W

8

do the fire brigade no your company do this :confused:

9

greggy:
i would say he is out of order, and no friggin way would i do that.
you are required by law to have 9 or 11 hrs undisturbed rest.
so tell him to go get sha£ted and go home for the night or tell him that you will see him in court.
you all should grow some balls and stick together.

also it is fraud when claiming a night out at base.

Are you required by law to have undisturbed rest or just to have rest,you can have 9 off and spend 2 hours driving home and back to work

10

1st: You may be given a verbal warning, but it has no relevance to your employment. Only a written warning is relevant and you need two of those.

2nd: Unless the accommodation you’re being asked to sleep in is bone fide sleeping accommodation, then you cannot be expected to sleep in it. I would be booking this time not as rest but as POA, and therefore payable.

3rd: All bona fide designated sleeping accommodation must have adequate and signed fire evacuation procedures, even in the event of a power cut, i.e. emergency lighting and signed evacuation routes. Escape routes must not be locked - this would be a major breach of HS and fire regulations and in the event of locked doors causing death in the event of a fire, would almost certainly lead to a charge of manslaughter, both personal and corporate, as well as corporate negligence. (5-10 if found guilty.)

Two questions: 1.) Yes, it is legal to have people sleeping in commercial premises. 2.) No, I would not do it, legal or not.

Observation: As a professional driver I think it’s only fair to think of the children before blowing my stack and getting “brought before one of the directors.” (Note: You are an individual employee, not a member of the Armed Forces. You can be brought before a judge, but not before a director of a business. You might be invited to attend a meeting with a director, but never “brought before one of the directors!”

Suggestion: Go back and ask for a meeting with said director. If granted, apologise and explain you were overwrought/tired/stressed/felt intimidated, but have since reflected on the company’s request that you sleep in what either is or is not, acceptable overnight accommodation, and you have decided to either accept or reject their offer (depending whether it either is or is not, acceptable overnight accommodation.)

Start looking for a new job.

Contact a lawyer with regard to launching an action for constructive dismissal against your current employers.

11

Why isn’t a verbal relevant and it may not be 2 written…It all depends on what is written in your company’s disciplinary procedures,surely.

Edited to add that your employers can give you any warning they like…they can go straight to a final if they deem it serious enough but this isn’t anything like stealing.

Take a look at direct.gov and acas for proper advice but jeez it’s a road I’d try to avoid if you can.

12

EastAnglianTrucker:
Start looking for a new job.

Contact a lawyer with regard to launching an action for constructive dismissal against your current employers.

13

I think if you start digging up the dirt, the finger will point directly at you ( unless other colleagues have also complained ) and therefore you could end up on a disciplinary.
I dont think its legal to sleep overnight in a commercial premise, but a phone call to the local council, would in my opinion sort things out.
Of course there are the health and safety act, the fire regulations, and of course the locked doors, although there are some doors open so that could be an escape route. Hazardous materials should not be stored if a room has been provided for drivers to sleep in. If your paid a night out allowance for the night in question, why not spend it at one of the local hotels anyway, minus your food, the room shouldnt be too expensive. Or you can ask the boss to pay for the room, and not pay you for a night out, one or the other is a fair way.

14

mac12:

greggy:
i would say he is out of order, and no friggin way would i do that.
you are required by law to have 9 or 11 hrs undisturbed rest.
so tell him to go get sha£ted and go home for the night or tell him that you will see him in court.
you all should grow some balls and stick together.

also it is fraud when claiming a night out at base.

Are you required by law to have undisturbed rest or just to have rest,you can have 9 off and spend 2 hours driving home and back to work

The word is uninterrupted rest, not undisturbed

If the warehouse is unmanned how come there are vehicles entering at all times of the night and drivers using the washrooms?

It is not ideal and not seeing the room it is difficult to decide, but many truck dealers in Europe have a room where drivers can sleep whilst the lorry is being serviced and repaired, and 5 star they aint.

An alternative would be to sleep in another lorry cab which is what many companies do, again not ideal but not illegal

15

ShropsBri:
Why isn’t a verbal relevant and it may not be 2 written…It all depends on what is written in your company’s disciplinary procedures,surely.

Edited to add that your employers can give you any warning they like…they can go straight to a final if they deem it serious enough but this isn’t anything like stealing.

Take a look at direct.gov and acas for proper advice but jeez it’s a road I’d try to avoid if you can.

You’re correct, direct.gov is the place to look, and yes, a verbal warning can be given, but it has no relevance to any disciplinary action leading to a dismissal, that is likely to succeed in any employment tribunal. Too much chance for he said, she said, with no accurate record of what was said, by whom, and when, for what reason.

If you want to know what employers do need to do to get rid of you for anything other than gross misconduct, (like theft, or ■■■■■■/racial/religious harassment) try this link: Solve a workplace dispute: Formal procedures - GOV.UK

To wit:

Employer’s disciplinary procedures

In line with the Acas Code of Practice, your employer’s disciplinary procedure is likely to include the following steps:

a letter from your employer setting out the issue
a meeting with your employer to discuss the issue
the ability to appeal your employer’s decision

Your employer should put their disciplinary procedure in writing, and make it easily available to you. For example, they could give you the details in the staff handbook. The details should include:

your employer’s disciplinary procedure rules
what performance and behaviour might lead to disciplinary action
what action your employer might take

Your employer must also give you, in writing, the name of a person you can apply to if you are dissatisfied with your employer’s decision.

Your employer can also set out their own disciplinary procedures in your employment contract. If your employer has done this and did not follow it, you could sue them for breach of contract.

If your employer does anything you think is unreasonable during a disciplinary procedure, you should tell them in writing and suggest ways to resolve the problem. They may decide to carry on with the procedure anyway, in which case you might decide to use the issue as grounds for an appeal.

Given the information in the OP I would say he’s on pretty safe ground.

16

Much would depend on how good the job is overall, and how much you want to keep working there.

With times as hard as they are companies are saving money everywhere they can, maybe stand back and take a long hard look at the overall package, if the only time you have to rough it is once every 6 weeks when the truck is in for service then in the grand scheme of things its not too bad.

If the job is all crap then by all means kick up a fuss or simply find another job and bugger off.

If the job is good with fair pay and reasonable hours then helping in a small way the company to stay viable would be fair.

17

It’s a bloody minefield innit and one of the reasons I prefer to work for small/medium family firms…none of this,if you do wrong you get a bollocking and forgot about and if I don’t like it I can always look for somewhere else.For once every 6 weeks I would sleep there just to keep things going…but then I work nights and am used to being disturbed by inconsiderate drivers revving and blowing and shouting whilst I’m trying to sleep in the day.

And I return you to the thread in hand.

18

Hi
don’t do it tell the boss to go jump. Us as drivers get treated like scum because people just roll over and do what There told.

Look how many people stand and say ur boss has done nothing wrong don’t be treated like a dog in a kennel

19

Depends how long you’ve been there too.

Some firms will just get rid of you :imp:

By the sounds of things, it sounds like it shouldn’t be slept in, but there’s a washroom and canteen, so maybe it should, hard to say off your description.

As long as there’s lit fire escapes, it might be ok, and it doesn’t sound like much or a hardship compared to sleeping in a truck??

Maybe I’m missing something, as others have said, depends on the job etc, if the job’s good other than that, depends how bad the room situation is, but sounds like a lot of fuss over nothing?

20

Uniterupted rest is defined as a rest period where no other work related duties are carried out oy doesn’t mean 9 or 11 hrs perfect sleep