On any given day there are a couple of tractors left in our yard. They generally get used for shunting trailers by anyone and everyone. Not all of whom have a digicard.
So said tractors will have a number of 30 second movements (its only a small yard) down as “driving without card”. Maybe half a dozen.
Am I expected to make everyone put a card in to move a trailer 100 yards or is there a bit of leeway on this? What’s the official position.
It is probably not strictly kosher but will prevent a host of minor infringements recording driving without card on numerous driver cards and having to account for missing mileage, so probably the easiest is to get the first driver to select out of scope in the vehicle, and then leave the vehicle on that all day unless someone needs to go on the road. That person then inserts his card and the tacho automatically reverts to normal operation. You could get someone to do a vehicle print out at the end of the day if you wish.
cav551:
It is probably not strictly kosher but will prevent a host of minor infringements recording driving without card on numerous driver cards and having to account for missing mileage, so probably the easiest is to get the first driver to select out of scope in the vehicle, and then leave the vehicle on that all day unless someone needs to go on the road. That person then inserts his card and the tacho automatically reverts to normal operation. You could get someone to do a vehicle print out at the end of the day if you wish.
How is anyone going to get a “Driving Without Card” infringement on their card when there’s no card in the tacho on which to record said infringement?
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The tacho will display driving with no card if the vehicle has been moved. If a driver then does not cancel that before putting his card in then it will appear on his print out. I have instructions to do just that for the rare occasions when any driving I do is not exempt from using my card.
The tacho head will record the vehicle use without a card in. That’ll show up on the vehicle download. Provided it’s all for short times and distances it wouldn’t be particularly suspicious would it?
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cav551:
The tacho will display driving with no card if the vehicle has been moved. If a driver then does not cancel that before putting his card in then it will appear on his print out. I have instructions to do just that for the rare occasions when any driving I do is not exempt from using my card.
It will display “Driving Without Card” on the VU display, and it will be flagged as such when the VU is downloaded and subsequently analysed. But it won’t appear on any driver’s card. In common with a good many places, our vehicles are moved on and off the loading bays with no card every single night. No-one (including me) bothers to cancel the Information message before inserting their cards, none of us (including me) have ever had an infringement for “Driving Without Card” and it doesn’t appear on any printout I make.
As others have said, the operator needs to keep tabs on such unaccounted-for running, but everyone (including DVSA) accepts that a couple of kilometres shunting without a card in the yard is perfectly normal.
It is on private land, so not a problem, if on a public road it would be, DVSA know this happens, and some are ex drivers.
Mechanics at my place would move my lorry when i have booked off and gone home, made the mistake of leaving my digi card in overnight to record daily rest, then the garage has driven it for a road test or four miles to the Scania workshop.
toby1234abc:
It is on private land, so not a problem,
Have proper read of the posts above. 
The issue isn’t missing mileage.
The legal issue is if someone has driven under EU regs in a shift, then any subsequent off road driving is also in scope of the EU regs for that shift, so legally someone who’s driven under EU regs that shift needs to put their card in the vehicle they’re shunting in. If they haven’t driven under EU regs that shift or don’t hold licence, Digi card, then they can shunt it round fine without a card in.
The driving without card message, it’s irrelevant if you cancel or not before you put your card in, it won’t be saved to the card either way, but it will when you do a printout in that vehicle be at the bottom of the printout, as all printouts have the last 5 events on the drivers card and same for the truck
if its not your truck,then after the end of your shift and your card ejects what happens to that truck until you start again is not your concern until you bung your card in again so nothing at all to do with you.
its the owner/operators concern,not yours.
any vostapo question then thats your reply…nothing to do with me,not my truck,i dont give a toss,take it up with the owner/transport manager.and byebye.
dieseldog999:
if its not your truck,then after the end of your shift and your card ejects what happens to that truck until you start again is not your concern until you bung your card in again so nothing at all to do with you.
its the owner/operators concern,not yours.
any vostapo question then thats your reply…nothing to do with me,not my truck,i dont give a toss,take it up with the owner/transport manager.and byebye.
You are aware what forum you’re posting in right?
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oops,well shave my legs and call me smoothie…i just looked at the new posts and never saw the forum…il just slip out of here quietly now, 
stevieboy308:
The legal issue is if someone has driven under EU regs in a shift, then any subsequent off road driving is also in scope of the EU regs for that shift
Off road driving only counts towards the EU driving time if it’s part of a journey that goes onto public roads, otherwise it counts as other work.
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tachograph:
stevieboy308:
The legal issue is if someone has driven under EU regs in a shift, then any subsequent off road driving is also in scope of the EU regs for that shiftOff road driving only counts towards the EU driving time if it’s part of a journey that goes onto public roads, otherwise it counts as other work.
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It changed a good few years ago, if you drive under EU in a shift, then unless you met the criteria of an exemption or derogation, then all driving is in scope
Lonewolf Yorks:
On any given day there are a couple of tractors left in our yard. They generally get used for shunting trailers by anyone and everyone. Not all of whom have a digicard.So said tractors will have a number of 30 second movements (its only a small yard) down as “driving without card”. Maybe half a dozen.
Am I expected to make everyone put a card in to move a trailer 100 yards or is there a bit of leeway on this? What’s the official position.
Are the people who do the shunting drivers, or warehouse, office, or yard staff? Do they do any driving under eu rules during that day/week?
stevieboy308:
Hmmm, found it in gv262, but it’s moved!But I think gv262 is misleading / contradiction
I don’t think it was misleading as it was in the old GV262 I think it was correct, however the DVSA have now moved the goal posts.
edit: I assume the last image is from the GV262 PDF but I think the last time that was written was in 2011, they’ve moved a few goalposts since then so it’s probably best to stick to the .gov version, however as you’ve pointed out there is a contradiction between the first image and the last .gov image.
Maybe the DVSA use the same useless proof readers that most newspapers seem to use these days 
tachograph:
stevieboy308:
Hmmm, found it in gv262, but it’s moved!But I think gv262 is misleading / contradiction
I don’t think it was misleading as it was in the old GV262 I think it was correct, however the DVSA have now moved the goal posts.
edit: I assume the last image is from the GV262 PDF but I think the last time that was written was in 2011, they’ve moved a few goalposts since then so it’s probably best to stick to the .gov version, however as you’ve pointed out there is a contradiction between the first image and the last .gov image.
Maybe the DVSA use the same useless proof readers that most newspapers seem to use these days
Yeah the last image is from GV262-02 so no longer the upto date version, but I posted it to show the difference between what it used to say and what it now says, but both the old and the current have the same same bit as is the 1st pic.
So I think there’s a contradiction in the current GV262, with the 1st bit saying an off-road journey entirely off-road is out of scope but later on under the definition of driving it basically says if a shift has EU driving in it, then any off-road driving is in scope
dieseldog999:
if its not your truck,then after the end of your shift and your card ejects what happens to that truck until you start again is not your concern until you bung your card in again so nothing at all to do with you.
its the owner/operators concern,not yours.
any vostapo question then thats your reply…nothing to do with me,not my truck,i dont give a toss,take it up with the owner/transport manager.and byebye.
This every time^^^^^^^
A slightly different situation. A vehicle comes in the yard, the driver normally puts his tacho on break and disappears off to the canteen. A trailer needs to be moved but we cannot ask the driver who has just returned to do it. A warehouseman/ manager/fitter etc (ie not employed as a driver) is asked to use this the only vehicle in the yard to carry out the shunting. Let’s assume that this could be a regular occurence. So how do we proceed?
Ask drivers to put their card in slot two when they take a break in the yard? Ask drivers to remove their card if on break in the yard and make manual entries? the shunter changes the card over to slot two and puts it on break then does/doesn’t selects out of scope? or what?
We have ruled out1) Driver refuses to hand over keys. 2) the shunting has to wait 3) shunting without a record to prove that the driver remained on uninterrupted break.
