This is something I’ve often thought about. Personally, I would like folks taking CE to have the option of taking the test as it is or being able to do a test comprising show me/tell questions, coupling/uncoupling and reversing as one test. Issue a certificate valid for, say, 6 months which must be produced when the next test - road drive only - is conducted. And it would work the other way around ie complete the road drive, issue certificate then pass the yard exercises within 6 months.
I can only speak for myself, but I rarely have a fail on the driving part of the CE test (regardless of artic or w+d). But we get silly fails from time to time cos folks forget to check the park brake on the trailer or to do 2 tugs forward. And, of course, the reverse develops a mind of it’s own sometimes!
Seems a pity to me to have a perfectly sound (going forwards) driver who fails the whole test for a daft mistake in the yard.
I must emphasise that there is no proposal in the system (so far as I am aware) to make this happen. Just a talking point.
Pete
Out of interest, would newbies take up this option if it was available?
The argument against a 2 part test (same as when Mod1 and 2 was introduced for bikes) is that it penalises the well prepared candidate who would have to go through 2 booking procedures and have 2 lots of travelling to the test centre etc.
Not only do I 100% agree with the points Peter has made, it is something I have written to the DSA policy branch about on more than one occasion. In addition to the points made by the OP I would like to add something.
Approx 3 years ago the reversing area was greatly reduced in size from approx 90m X 18m to 66m X 11m. At the same time the stopping exercise was removed from the test. The reason for this being done was to hopefully enable more trainers to open their own test centre because of the smaller area needed. It would hopefully enable the DSA to close some test centres, saving them the running costs. In our area this is what happened with the Purfleet test centre.
I made the point the problem is that many trainers have reversing areas on old airfields etc in the middle of nowhere with no suitable test routes nearby. I made the point that if the test was split as suggested above the reversing could be tested at the trainers own area and the drive could begin and end somewhere near the existing test centres.
But the argument then is if you can’t do all of the tasks in that one hour your not capable a bit like saying… a level English will be tested in 2 parts, on Thursday this week spelling will be the main focus and in a months time you do the grammar… afraid it’s all or nothing
I’m not sure you would think that if you came back with 2 minor driving faults and one serious fault for not checking the trailer brake on the uncoupling after getting it perfect every time during the training.
I’m not sure you would think that if you came back with 2 minor driving faults and one serious fault for not checking the trailer brake on the uncoupling after getting it perfect every time during the training.
Maybe then the training should be longer a min of a months worth of driving… Let’s get it right 1st time every time then… stop all this pass in a week nonsense. … Let’s see what trainer will agree with that.
I’m not sure you would think that if you came back with 2 minor driving faults and one serious fault for not checking the trailer brake on the uncoupling after getting it perfect every time during the training.
Short of having an examiner sit in on all the training sessions, how else can it be assessed? The whole point of “Serious” faults is that they are the things that must be done properly first time, every time - not just when the pressure is off or the driver is having a “good day”.
I understand the OP’s viewpoint - but I don’t think there should be shortcuts aimed at making it easier for candidates to pass. I’m probably in a minority of one here, but I think the existing training regimes are simply too short/intensive.
Peter Smythe:
a test comprising show me/tell questions, coupling/uncoupling and reversing as one test. Issue a certificate valid for, say, 6 months which must be produced when the next test - road drive only - is conducted.
Almost exactly how the test for both C and CE is conducted here in France. The main difference is that depending on how many faults you get in the first part, you will get 1 or 3 shots at the driving part. Not sure or cannot remember if there is a time limit between the two. Personally found it a very good system.
Although slightly off topic I do agree that for some people the courses are simply too short to take it all in 100% properly.
In the old days when the normal was to do car straight to Class 1 I can’t remember a course less than 8 days and 10 was more the normal. You didn’t even need to uncouple the trailer on the test. I don’t remember the pass rate being any higher though.
The DVSA trainers register test comes with 2 options. Either take the driving test and then the insructional ability test on the same day straight after each other or on 2 separate days. If you choose the 1st option and fail the driving the 2nd test fee is lost. If you choose the 2nd option and fail the driving, the 2nd test can be used as a retest. I’ve never known a trainer fail the driving part but I’ve also never seen a trainer choose the 1st option. Everybody likes a safeguard.
I’m not sure you would think that if you came back with 2 minor driving faults and one serious fault for not checking the trailer brake on the uncoupling after getting it perfect every time during the training.
Maybe then the training should be longer a min of a months worth of driving… Let’s get it right 1st time every time then… stop all this pass in a week nonsense. … Let’s see what trainer will agree with that.
Oh yeah by the way I didn’t pass 1st time either but I had been driving 7.5t for a few years prior … so maybe there should be a time line between taking car - to cat c- to a c+e lets say it has to be a min 2years between cat’s that way doing a C+E you should have enough experience to pass with confidence … and lets say your NOT allowed to use any part of the test route as that would be like having notes on any other test …
Splitting would certainly open up the option of extending the non-driving elements to explore a candidate’s training and capabilities more deeply.
I was woefully unprepared for the real world with my fresh CE licence in my hand. I needed more depth and variety in reversing skills particularly, and I don’t think the choreographed test in its current form delivers that depth. A few more scenarios would make all trainers have to deliver greater understanding of the skill, and ultimately produce better drivers from the start.
Two part testing could provide a good way of preventing those little errors that the pressure of a test can cause.
Another idea, why not have trainers trained up to examiner level, and therefore allow the instructor(also examiner) to assess the competence of the candidate over a period of time after an initial set number of hours training.
Obviously the instructor/examiner role can cause a conflict of interest though, but let’s face it, the instructors see the trainees over a period of time and can see how they drive on open roads amongst public and can judge their competence.
Just an idea but I know it’s not ever an option in the eyes of the DVLA
Another idea, why not have trainers trained up to examiner level, and therefore allow the instructor(also examiner) to assess the competence of the candidate over a period of time after an initial set number of hours training.
I have argued this for years as well. And use existing examiners to check the performance of the trainers. Also use mystery shoppers so that any misbehaving would be discovered.
But they cant even get their head around making instructors registered. So I’m afraid there’s little hope for progressing to even more common sense.
I was a motorcycle instructor and could sign of a CBT. The same with fork lift. But cant be trusted with a lorry it seems!
Maybe then the training should be longer a min of a months worth of driving… Let’s get it right 1st time every time then… stop all this pass in a week nonsense. … Let’s see what trainer will agree with that.
Count me in. I fully support longer training periods. The current system works - but only just. It relies on the employer putting time in to familiarise the driver with the job required. And some employers don’t accept their responsibilities. And this despite the fact it’s a legal requirement under H & S.
I have considered all sorts of schemes to raise the standards - including operating trucks commercially to give new drivers experience. But my research indicates that most folks don’t see the value in this.
The current system of training/testing is flawed IMO but it’s not likely to change anytime soon so it’s a case of doing the best we possibly can with it.
The DVSA trainers register test comes with 2 options. Either take the driving test and then the insructional ability test on the same day straight after each other or on 2 separate days. If you choose the 1st option and fail the driving the 2nd test fee is lost. If you choose the 2nd option and fail the driving, the 2nd test can be used as a retest. I’ve never known a trainer fail the driving part but I’ve also never seen a trainer choose the 1st option. Everybody likes a safeguard.
That’s interesting. My experience is the polar opposite. I’ve trained a fair few instructors and all but one have had consecutive tests. And, to date, only one has needed a retest on the test of instructional ability and no-one has failed the driving test.
I’ve been on the register since it started in the late nineties and renewed every 4 years on consecutive tests.
The argument against a 2 part test (same as when Mod1 and 2 was introduced for bikes) is that it penalises the well prepared candidate who would have to go through 2 booking procedures and have 2 lots of travelling to the test centre etc.
[/I would like folks taking CE to have the option of taking the test as it is or being able to do a test comprising show me/tell questions, coupling/uncoupling and reversing as one test. quote]
