Taken from the forward by Bev Bell, in the official rules on drivers’ hours manual, published by the government:
Traffic commissioners have made it clear that the rules on drivers’ hours and the use of
tachographs are absolutely paramount to ensuring that the roads are safe, both here and abroad.
The rules have been put in place to prevent drivers suffering fatigue and to protect them from
employers who try to by-pass the regulations for commercial gain. This practice is unacceptable.
I wonder if she can explain how being allowed to work 15 hours with only 9 off before starting the next 15 hours is in line with the statement about preventing drivers suffering from fatigue?
When i started we had a 12 and half hour spreadover, start at 0500 you had to be off the road at 17.30, then we gained tachographs for safety and increased the working day to 15 hours because our EU masters decreed it so, brilliant.
About the same time we gradually dumped (in line with EU again) our third air line fully independent braking system (blue line via dead man), another good safety modification that was…not.
they legally stop you working a 20 hour shift with 4 off !!
Seriously, its only the driver who decides to take only 9 off between shifts because there is nothing to stop a driver doing 3 x 15 hour shifts and having 12 hours off between each one if that is what safety demands
All those 12s off will only count as 9s for the regs but that is not the point - safety is
Juddian:
When i started we had a 12 and half hour spreadover, start at 0500 you had to be off the road at 17.30, then we gained tachographs for safety and increased the working day to 15 hours because our EU masters decreed it so, brilliant.
About the same time we gradually dumped (in line with EU again) our third air line fully independent braking system (blue line via dead man), another good safety modification that was…not.
■■■■ right…I started more recently and can remember my astonishment at finding out a driver is allowed to work twice as many hours in a day as is considered the ‘norm’…
I really think it is time the whole fiasco was reviewed and actually reflected the aims they claim to want to achieve!
I think in this day and age 15 hours is fine the problem being only 9 hrs driving in the trafic on the road we need more drive time but I’m a tramper so 9 hrs off doesn’t realy bother me I only sleep for 5 of them
i hate the way the law is on taco’s,i’m driving 16 years and i still dont understand them but that maybe because for 10 odd years i ran bent.i just knew to have the card pulled so as i would have 9 hrs off to head back up the road again.however lately and because of vosa and irsa(irish vosa)this crack about 15hr spreads and 13hrs spread is something i still cant get around.jaysus my head does be fried at times…got the not just make it easyier and do it like a 12hr on and a 12hr for local and 15hr on and 11hr off for non local■■?
and make it simpler… how about ■■
maximum shift 13,
minimum daily rest 10,
minimum weekly rest 30 hrs,
maximum driving 10 every day,
maximum week of 6 shifts,
keep break rules as they are now (45 off before 4½ hrs driving).
And shove the WTD where it will never ever see daylight again.
I’m sure we all have our different opinions, but we need to get rid of all the complications…
Even Vosa have to use a computer to tell them if we have any infringements…
so what chance has the average driver got unless he/she goes out and buys a card reader and program to tell them they have gone wrong ■■, and that’s after they are already guilty…
Must be one of the e.mails i sent to them outlining the amount of hours a driver can work, the amount of rest he is allowed to take, and not including the travelling time etc. Its something i do on a regular basis, to keep them informed as to why they think its safe to legally drive so tired, Ok its not rocket science to know that a driver who parks up in his truck, may be able to get away with 9 hrs rest, but even then, perhaps vosa thinks that when a driver parks up, for a 9 hr break, he immediately jumps into the bed, what i am trying to make them see, is the fact that a shower, something to eat etc, is eating into their rest time, and obviously it is even worse when parked at base, hopefully one day, they may realise that the present regulations actually hinder a drivers safety, and thats not to mention a european driver who often is forced to drive excessive miles, in order to get the job done. I want to see an increase in the rest periods, and a reduction of the hours on duty, so will keep fighting my one man war to get a 12 on and a 12 off system, you know it makes sense. maybe more drivers can e.mail Vosa to remind them i am not alone in this quest.
12hrs work / drive.
1hr break every 4hrs of work/drive.
12hrs rest between shifts (no reductions)
after 6 cards 48hrs rest (No Reductions) = 6 days working 2days rest would be the max . but you could do any mixture as long as you have 48hrs rest this resets the 6 on 2off clock.
Drive max 10hrs per day.
and there’s gonna be some that say I don’t need 12 off just as there is some that say I don’t need 9 off… all I’m saying is Make the rules SIMPLE and BULLET proof. BUT …
The Gov need to look at their part in all of this and make free parking areas for TRUCKS only at regular intervals on all major routes this could be monitored by the ANPR system to ensure vehicles aren’t abusing parking etc . weigh stations could be run like the USA , ANPR system picks up a reg of a vehicle that then displays on approaching boards informing the driver to exit onto the weigh station , driver pulls in drives over bridge if all’s good its green light allows it to continue without further ado simple and quick
Juddian:
When i started we had a 12 and half hour spreadover, start at 0500 you had to be off the road at 17.30, then we gained tachographs for safety and increased the working day to 15 hours because our EU masters decreed it so, brilliant.
About the same time we gradually dumped (in line with EU again) our third air line fully independent braking system (blue line via dead man), another good safety modification that was…not.
Tacho’s had allready been around for sometime when I started, but most off the older drivers I worked with then, complained about the tacho cutting down their working day 12and a half hours, on one log book maybe, or just make it up as you went along seem to be the general feeling.
I agree that the rules are a farse, what kind off logic states you can only count 12 hours rest as 9, because it was preceeded by a 15 hour shift. Dont start telling me about 24 hour clock, I know the rules, but its ilogocal to say 3 hours of rest is meaningless, its still 3 hour not working.
Tacho’s had allready been around for sometime when I started, but most off the older drivers I worked with then, complained about the tacho cutting down their working day 12and a half hours, on one log book maybe, or just make it up as you went along seem to be the general feeling.
True some did bend it, personally i didn’t and the company i worked for didn’t require or condone it either.
Angus25:
I think in this day and age 15 hours is fine the problem being only 9 hrs driving in the trafic on the road we need more drive time but I’m a tramper so 9 hrs off doesn’t realy bother me I only sleep for 5 of them
15 hours isn’t fine when handballing for most of the day.
truckyboy:
Must be one of the e.mails i sent to them outlining the amount of hours a driver can work, the amount of rest he is allowed to take, and not including the travelling time etc. Its something i do on a regular basis, to keep them informed as to why they think its safe to legally drive so tired, Ok its not rocket science to know that a driver who parks up in his truck, may be able to get away with 9 hrs rest, but even then, perhaps vosa thinks that when a driver parks up, for a 9 hr break, he immediately jumps into the bed, what i am trying to make them see, is the fact that a shower, something to eat etc, is eating into their rest time, and obviously it is even worse when parked at base, hopefully one day, they may realise that the present regulations actually hinder a drivers safety, and thats not to mention a european driver who often is forced to drive excessive miles, in order to get the job done. I want to see an increase in the rest periods, and a reduction of the hours on duty, so will keep fighting my one man war to get a 12 on and a 12 off system, you know it makes sense. maybe more drivers can e.mail Vosa to remind them i am not alone in this quest.
Truckulent:
Taken from the forward by Bev Bell, in the official rules on drivers’ hours manual, published by the government:
Traffic commissioners have made it clear that the rules on drivers’ hours and the use of
tachographs are absolutely paramount to ensuring that the roads are safe, both here and abroad.
The rules have been put in place to prevent drivers suffering fatigue and to protect them from
employers who try to by-pass the regulations for commercial gain. This practice is unacceptable.
I wonder if she can explain how being allowed to work 15 hours with only 9 off before starting the next 15 hours is in line with the statement about preventing drivers suffering from fatigue?
Truckulent:
‘…Drivers’ Hours Rules … What do other drivers think…?’
As a non-tramper with a 20 mile each way commute, I’ve (wimpily?) advised my lot that my experience of dipping beneath a ‘regular rest’ period into ‘reduced rest’ corresponds with me not feeling particularly safe the following shift.
What’s more it’s true
Despite the clerks & hierarchy gagging to hear a driver say that they’re ‘refusing’ a reduced rest, which I’m not, as a white-shirted collective they seem universally unimpressed
But, since loads of driver colleagues are similar minded the planners seem compelled to manage us to manage safety together and to achieve a reasonable* quality of life for drivers whilst staying alive beyond a year or two of retirement.
[*NB. Not a cushy life - but simply a reasonable life given today’s working conditions/demands and pay rates compared to 20 years ago, etc.]
In future - and as per another TNUK thread, I shall also remind them that clerks don’t pay as much for life insurance as drivers do, and that any existing pay difference barely accomodates the difference between insurance premiums of clerks & drivers - the pay difference not being intended as an abuse premium
That all being the case, we must surely await the inevitable influx of Romanian & Bulgarian thrusters to grunt in poor English alongside our now established Eastern brethren this coming January 2014: They too will doubtless flog themselves for extended hours & the £££’s into misery & wrinkles since that’s my experience of seeing those that flog themselves look like far too soon in life.
1 Maybe see the ‘SOLIDARITY=Join the Union or Not?’ thread
2 Accept that ‘diversity’, that is now successfully woven throughout the UK’s society is an excellent defence mechanism protecting all political hierarchy currently above us
3 Use one’s rights as an individual
4 At the next General election, sack all Lib/Lab/Con MP’s continuing to prevaricate over staying in the undemocratic EU because it’s done its job and - because our UK Traffic Commisioners seem on the ball with this one, the EU is now un-welcome.
and increased the working day to 15 hours because our EU masters decreed it so, brilliant.
12and a half hours, on one log book maybe, or just make it up as you went along seem to be the general feeling.
Maybe see the ‘SOLIDARITY=Join the Union or Not?’ thread