Honestscott76:
There’s those who can and those who can’t!
There’s also…
Those who did for over 12 years, with accountants, VAT registered, company liabilty insurance etc and then happily dissolved their Ltd company status too.
Franglais:
albion:
Honestscott76:
Conor:
Trucker-Millward:
I’m 29, I want to go from £11.50 an hour to £18.50 with this new job. You work it out.Accountant costs him 200.00
He pays for his own phone, call it 300.00
So he ends up with 43243.00
Someone employed on 12.00 per hour on say time and a third for 60 hours would get 41600.00.
So … Self employed £43,243.00 per annum and Direct (PAYE) £41,600.00 per annum.
The direct employee has 20% tax stopped at source and 15% National Insurance stopped (£14,560.00) bringing that to £27,040.00 take home. Right?
The self employed has all £43,243.00 go into his ‘business account’ and is legally allowed to spend the full amount on whatever he sees fit, these are called ‘expenses’. Only ‘after’ expenses are paid this leaves ‘profit’. Only then does the company pay its percentage of tax.
Now here’s the appealing part!
Should the self employed person spend everything on expenses, there is no ‘profit’ to make tax deductions from, thus paying nowt. The self employed has use of ‘every penny’.
I personally know who’s better off!
yourhavingalarf:
Honestscott76:
There’s those who can and those who can’t!There’s also…
Those who did for over 12 years, with accountants, VAT registered, company liabilty insurance etc and then happily dissolved their Ltd company status too.
Good on them!
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
You need to read the article in Truckstop News issue 335 13th June.
BIG article on SE/Ltd drivers working for haulage companies driving THEIR trucks.
“Loophole” is closing and HMRC are coming and BIG tax bills back dated a few yrs are coming too!!!“Public enquiry” On going and HMRC will have their pound of flesh as it’s NOT your decision if your SE/Ltd company driving another man’s truck,
your simply a PAYE employee!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Tosh!
So your saying the article in Truckstop News is a load of lies then!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
I have a limited company and work for that company (PAYE) as director. The limited company then uses my ‘personal services’ as a HGV driver to conduct driver services for various haulage companies and employment agencies.
It’s perfectly legal and above board to sell your ‘personal Services’ and charge a fee. It’s no different to an electrician, bricklayer, plasterer etc. HGV driving is no different.
For HMRC to outlaw this practice they would have to abolish employment agencies.
Somehow I don’t think that will ever happen!
An Electrician/Plumber etc all use their OWN tools!!!
What tools does a truck driver use??
Why can’t every factory/service/construction worker in the country not opt for SE/Ltd and save themselves a fortune in tax/NI etc!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.
[zb] all to do with his tools!
You are deluded!!!
Have you put your personal circumstances against that questionnaire a few posts back??
As plenty of others have said you need to own/insure/“plan it’s use”
a “tool” I.E. the truck you are driving!!!
Don’t matter if ST or single employee of your Ltd company.
You may be paying all your taxes/NI but don’t mean HMRC condone the practice!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
igloo mike:
the question I would ask is “how can I be self employed if your paying for my training”.
By agreement.
wouldn`t that be a “benefit in kind” ?
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
You need to read the article in Truckstop News issue 335 13th June.
BIG article on SE/Ltd drivers working for haulage companies driving THEIR trucks.
“Loophole” is closing and HMRC are coming and BIG tax bills back dated a few yrs are coming too!!!“Public enquiry” On going and HMRC will have their pound of flesh as it’s NOT your decision if your SE/Ltd company driving another man’s truck,
your simply a PAYE employee!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Tosh!
So your saying the article in Truckstop News is a load of lies then!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
I have a limited company and work for that company (PAYE) as director. The limited company then uses my ‘personal services’ as a HGV driver to conduct driver services for various haulage companies and employment agencies.
It’s perfectly legal and above board to sell your ‘personal Services’ and charge a fee. It’s no different to an electrician, bricklayer, plasterer etc. HGV driving is no different.
For HMRC to outlaw this practice they would have to abolish employment agencies.
Somehow I don’t think that will ever happen!
An Electrician/Plumber etc all use their OWN tools!!!
What tools does a truck driver use??
Why can’t every factory/service/construction worker in the country not opt for SE/Ltd and save themselves a fortune in tax/NI etc!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.
[zb] all to do with his tools!
You are deluded!!!
Have you put your personal circumstances against that questionnaire a few posts back??
As plenty of others have said you need to own/insure/“plan it’s use”
a “tool” I.E. the truck you are driving!!!Don’t matter if ST or single employee of your Ltd company.
You may be paying all your taxes/NI but don’t mean HMRC condone the practice!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
HMRC are powerless to stop it, the practice of owning a Limited Company is perfectly legal and within the Law.
I object to being forced to take 45 hrs weekly rest but I’m powerless to do anything about it because it’s written in law.
There’s some mighty fine creative accounting going on there Scott. I think you are being over optimistic about what you will get away with in expenses for someone that doesn’t have a truck.
But what would I know, 26 years of a proper limited company paying employees, nah, nothing.
Franglais , there’s nothing wrong with looking at the moral aspect. That 100k pays for three experienced nurses, three teachers, all the stuff we need. People who think they are being clever by ducking tax are takers pure and simple.
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
You need to read the article in Truckstop News issue 335 13th June.
BIG article on SE/Ltd drivers working for haulage companies driving THEIR trucks.
“Loophole” is closing and HMRC are coming and BIG tax bills back dated a few yrs are coming too!!!“Public enquiry” On going and HMRC will have their pound of flesh as it’s NOT your decision if your SE/Ltd company driving another man’s truck,
your simply a PAYE employee!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Tosh!
So your saying the article in Truckstop News is a load of lies then!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
I have a limited company and work for that company (PAYE) as director. The limited company then uses my ‘personal services’ as a HGV driver to conduct driver services for various haulage companies and employment agencies.
It’s perfectly legal and above board to sell your ‘personal Services’ and charge a fee. It’s no different to an electrician, bricklayer, plasterer etc. HGV driving is no different.
For HMRC to outlaw this practice they would have to abolish employment agencies.
Somehow I don’t think that will ever happen!
An Electrician/Plumber etc all use their OWN tools!!!
What tools does a truck driver use??
Why can’t every factory/service/construction worker in the country not opt for SE/Ltd and save themselves a fortune in tax/NI etc!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.
[zb] all to do with his tools!
You are deluded!!!
Have you put your personal circumstances against that questionnaire a few posts back??
As plenty of others have said you need to own/insure/“plan it’s use”
a “tool” I.E. the truck you are driving!!!Don’t matter if ST or single employee of your Ltd company.
You may be paying all your taxes/NI but don’t mean HMRC condone the practice!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
The Driver is the ‘tool’.
The operator’s tool is the truck a physical object. The drivers ‘tools’ are ‘personal service’, knowledge and experience, ‘tools’ of the trade. As long as the ‘tool’ is accountable it’s perfectly legal.
For example:
An ■■■■■■ girl provides herself, its perfectly legal to sell her ‘personal service’ for an agreed fee. This practice only becomes illegal when she charges for ■■■ as this is against the law.
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
Honestscott76:
Big Truck:
You need to read the article in Truckstop News issue 335 13th June.
BIG article on SE/Ltd drivers working for haulage companies driving THEIR trucks.
“Loophole” is closing and HMRC are coming and BIG tax bills back dated a few yrs are coming too!!!“Public enquiry” On going and HMRC will have their pound of flesh as it’s NOT your decision if your SE/Ltd company driving another man’s truck,
your simply a PAYE employee!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Tosh!
So your saying the article in Truckstop News is a load of lies then!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
I have a limited company and work for that company (PAYE) as director. The limited company then uses my ‘personal services’ as a HGV driver to conduct driver services for various haulage companies and employment agencies.
It’s perfectly legal and above board to sell your ‘personal Services’ and charge a fee. It’s no different to an electrician, bricklayer, plasterer etc. HGV driving is no different.
For HMRC to outlaw this practice they would have to abolish employment agencies.
Somehow I don’t think that will ever happen!
An Electrician/Plumber etc all use their OWN tools!!!
What tools does a truck driver use??
Why can’t every factory/service/construction worker in the country not opt for SE/Ltd and save themselves a fortune in tax/NI etc!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.
[zb] all to do with his tools!
You are deluded!!!
Have you put your personal circumstances against that questionnaire a few posts back??
As plenty of others have said you need to own/insure/“plan it’s use”
a “tool” I.E. the truck you are driving!!!Don’t matter if ST or single employee of your Ltd company.
You may be paying all your taxes/NI but don’t mean HMRC condone the practice!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
I’m not Deluded. Answer me this;
If you hire a gardener and give him or her instructions on how you want your garden but he or she uses your mower and tools, is he self employed or do you have to employ him?
So many differeing views on here, it’s just like speaking with HMRC officials. What with Self Employed, Sole Trader, Ltd Company, Personal Service Company, Managed Service Company Legislation, IR35 to name but a few. All surrounded by differing shades of grey and vague answers from HMRC, just so they can lob some legtislation at you further down the line.
The absolute majority of Drivers that set up a company to gain work through agencies/own customers are NOT self employed, they operate their own PSC, (Personal Service Company) and have to take into account IR35 with all of its complexities, (grey areas), each assignment has to be scrutinised for compliancy, though speak with HMRC about this and they WON’T give you a straight answer.
Honestscott76:
mac12:
So Honestscott76 you set your rates which would need to be at least £20 per hour to cover costs, what about most drivers who get told they will get £1 per hour moreYes, I set my own rates but not quite £20 ph but I survive and keep food on the table. managing your money through the quiet times is key.
That’s not really what i ment, you put that it was legal and above board to sell your services and charge a fee most self employed drivers are told how much they will be paid so are they self employed.
Honestscott76:
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.[zb] all to do with his tools!
The “tools” qualification might be better recast as “who has the business capital?”. That’s what it’s really about.
A truck is a capital asset, and the driver’s essential role is to operate one. If the capital asset doesn’t rest in the hands of the driver, then one of the markers of the independence of his supposed business is absent.
mac12:
Honestscott76:
mac12:
So Honestscott76 you set your rates which would need to be at least £20 per hour to cover costs, what about most drivers who get told they will get £1 per hour moreYes, I set my own rates but not quite £20 ph but I survive and keep food on the table. managing your money through the quiet times is key.
That’s not really what i ment, you put that it was legal and above board to sell your services and charge a fee most self employed drivers are told how much they will be paid so are they self employed.
In my perception of the law, where self employed person provides a service, the rate is ‘agreed’ between customer and supplier of the service [driver]. There is no hierarchical relationship it’s purely by mutual agreement in most cases.
Rjan:
Honestscott76:
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.[zb] all to do with his tools!
The “tools” qualification might be better recast as “who has the business capital?”. That’s what it’s really about.
A truck is a capital asset, and the driver’s essential role is to operate one. If the capital asset doesn’t rest in the hands of the driver, then one of the markers of the independence of his supposed business is absent.
The owner could drive his own assets. The issue arises when the business purchases more ‘assets’, then it requires the ‘personal services’ of someone else. The business may either choose to employ a person or use a self employed person to operate the ‘asset’, both are perfectly legal. [emoji6]
Honestscott76:
Rjan:
Employment agencies were around long before this confusion about self-employment. Hence their name!Employment agencies are Limited companies, no difference in law between the two!
Yes, but the point is that they act as, or on behalf of, employers!
The people engaged by employment agencies we naturally think of as being employees in employment, not as buccaneering small businessmen 
Honestscott76:
An ■■■■■■ girl provides herself, its perfectly legal to sell her ‘personal service’ for an agreed fee. This practice only becomes illegal when she charges for ■■■ as this is against the law.
Indeed, but there is something about the nature of the typical relationship between the working girl and the client that we recognise as not being one where the client acts as, and holds the authority of, an employer. That’s my impression anyway.
It would be different as between the pimp and the working girl, or as between a head of household and a nanny.
Sorry but I cannot see how your view of the two is any different to the other, in law.
It’s merely your own perception that “employment agencies are naturally thought of as being employees in employment, not as buccaneering small businessmen”.
I’m afraid I disagree with your view, as both act on behalf of employers in that they supply ‘personal services’.
Honestscott76:
If you hire a gardener and give him or her instructions on how you want your garden but he or she uses your mower and tools, is he self employed or do you have to employ him?
He could well be your employee. For example, you hire a 17 year old lad to run your mower around, and you stand there to supervise and control. Most people would refuse to accept that he’s acting in the capacity of a self employed businessman, but instead that he resembles a domestic servant.
Honestscott76:
Rjan:
Honestscott76:
Unfortunately tools cannot work themselves without the skills of the tradesmen, the same way a truck cannot work without the skills of a qualified driver. It’s the personal service of the person or tradesmen which make the job a complete service.[zb] all to do with his tools!
The “tools” qualification might be better recast as “who has the business capital?”. That’s what it’s really about.
A truck is a capital asset, and the driver’s essential role is to operate one. If the capital asset doesn’t rest in the hands of the driver, then one of the markers of the independence of his supposed business is absent.
The owner could drive his own assets. The issue arises when the business purchases more ‘assets’, then it requires the ‘personal services’ of someone else. The business may either choose to employ a person or use a self employed person to operate the ‘asset’, both are perfectly legal. [emoji6]
The business may choose whether to employ someone or hire another businessman. But a person does not become a businessman, and work in the capacity of a businessman, simply by declaration.