where the trailer is picked up from must have an office, so go to the office and ask if someone can be in attendance whilst a trailer check takes place, and a new seal issued and fixed, if they refuse, refuse to collect it, it is the drivers responsibility for any load carried on any vehicle, so its on your head, and its your licence if it goes pearshaped, and the fines come out of your pocket, in the eyes of VOSA, you are the one in control and who will take all blame, transporters should take responsibility for the safety of the load also, and therefore seek restitution from the shippers that their trailers will be opened and checked for safety and security reasons, if a boss refuses your request, tell them your not taking it…simple…
wheelnutt:
rob22888:
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Picking up a loaded, sealed container from a port?
More so than other trailers, that thing came down here by sea, plenty of chance for the load to have shifted. How do you know the muppet on the other end loaded it correctly? How do you know the ship didn’t encounter 20ft waves on the way over?
You are responsible for your load, ignorance is no defense.
How acceptable is it though for a driver to break a seal on a container at the port to have a look inside?
Fair enough opening up a sealed supermarket trailer and asking for it to be resealed, I just imagine it’d be a lot more of an issue in this instance. Aggro from the end customer when the box hasn’t got its original seal on etc.
wheelnutt:
robert1952:
If you’ve got roll-cages of vodka on a pre-loaded and pre-sealed trailer, I’d check with the company to see who accepts responsibility for a load that shifts (always the driver). Ask them to review their policy / procedure if necessary, so that you can make a visual check yourself before sealing at all times before taking out loaded trailers RobertFixed it for ya…
I agree with your re-wording of my text. I have always been a stickler for getting in the back to check load-retraint, security and for stowaways, especially on general haulage. And yes, it is down to the driver. Most of the companies I worked for prior to retirement not only facilitated this level of checking, but encouraged it too. There are always weak links in the chain, I suppose, like trailer change-overs and after-hours warehouse pick-ups - not to mention unaccompanied trailers with bonded goods. In the end, company policy has to cover these eventualities. Happy New Year! Robert 
rob22888:
wheelnutt:
rob22888:
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Picking up a loaded, sealed container from a port?
More so than other trailers, that thing came down here by sea, plenty of chance for the load to have shifted. How do you know the muppet on the other end loaded it correctly? How do you know the ship didn’t encounter 20ft waves on the way over?
You are responsible for your load, ignorance is no defense.
How acceptable is it though for a driver to break a seal on a container at the port to have a look inside?
Fair enough opening up a sealed supermarket trailer and asking for it to be resealed, I just imagine it’d be a lot more of an issue in this instance. Aggro from the end customer when the box hasn’t got its original seal on etc.
In container work you can’t brake custom seals if the merchandise have shifted then no problem because the voyage is for and under client responsibility the driver just insures to keep the rubber down. By the way the most difficult loads is the tanks with low viscosity liquids need over 5 min to calm down and take the weight at the exit of the port.
Replying to the post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In container work you can break any seal you want to justify you are taking a load you are responsible for.
Of course you follow correct procedures, port staff, customs , consigner and consignee.
I still stand by my challenge of asking the entire internet to give me a situation where I would not be able to check my load before I drive on a public highway?
I once caught up to a box jockey whilst driving my car who had one of those mini JCB all terrain fork lifts hanging out the rear doors of the container.
I managed to gesture for him to follow me in to the MSA.
d2m2s if that all terrain fork lift had fell out the back doors onto lane 2 of a motorway,
Is the client, customer, captain of the ferry or you the driver who is at fault?
Only one of the above choices has actually taken responsibility for the carriage of the above on a motorway, so I doubt the ferry captain is at fault for example. 
A picture for those who are hard of hearing!
.
chester:
Replying to the post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In container work you can break any seal you want to justify you are taking a load you are responsible for.
Of course you follow correct procedures, port staff, customs , consigner and consignee.
I still stand by my challenge of asking the entire internet to give me a situation where I would not be able to check my load before I drive on a public highway?
I gather that you’re on container work? If so, do you check each and every loaded container you pick up? What is the actual procedure that you use to do so?
I know on ferry trailer work I’ve often hooked up to a trailer that the load has already shifted and smashed to pieces inside and had to move it elsewhere to be re-worked and it didn’t feel wrong or different, there was nothing to indicate there was a problem aside the visual examination, but in that line of work its only a minority of trailers that have any sort of meaningful seal on that breaking could be an issue later so it was easy to check the load eight or nine times out of ten. I’m gathering that deep sea containers are always sealed and as such you would need to physically follow some sort of procedure every single time you left the port or rail head?
I have to say, Chester’s position is logically solid and right on this one. Here’s an analogy: a good driver’s first rule of the road is, 'If you can’t see to go, you don’t ‘king go!’. Well, it’s the same with load restraint: if your’e not sure whether it’ll move, you don’t ‘king go!’
Two examples spring to mind. The first is back in the early '80s when I picked up an unaccompanied trailer from the (then) Chatham docks and strapped down the reinforcing wire murder-tight with straps before proceeding. I hadn’t gone far before I noticed in my mirror that the load was beginning to sag to the offside. I pulled onto a construction site and paid a small fee for the forklift man to right the load and help me re-secure it. No heroics there: every half-sensible driver’s done it - job done.
The other example is more relevant to this debate because it involves an experienced TIR driver back in '97 who stopped in Romania at a customs / TIR point in Sibiu to gain permission to unseal his load of aluminium so that he could ‘right’ it. All went according to plan until he damaged his leg whilst doing so, resulting in my ‘jumping ship’ from the lorry I was double-manning to drive his lorry back to Blighty. BUT HE DID THE RIGHT THING. He was an old campaigner on the TIR-trail and he knew damned well that being driven home by someone else who’d have to be paid was better than being dead or living with someone else dead on his conscience. He was a true professional. Robert
robert1952:
I have to say, Chester’s position is logically solid and right on this one. Here’s an analogy: a good driver’s first rule of the road is, 'If you can’t see to go, you don’t ‘king go!’. Well, it’s the same with load restraint: if your’e not sure whether it’ll move, you don’t ‘king go!’
It is of course, but how do you apply that logic away from trucknet and out in the real world. We all know full well that no one checks inside every sealed deep-sea container they collect, they just wing it because its always been alright in the past, until the time it isn’t. As I said in my above post, a shifted or a load that isn’t secured properly and could be an issue further down the road doesn’t necessarily make itself known by feel in the few hundred metres from having the box put on the trailer to the gate, beyond which its your responsibility and its too late. So are we to actually stop 100% of the time and demand every container to be opened by someone, who do you ask? who breaks the seal? where is the seal to be broken? does every container port have loading dock facilities to rectify a compromised load etc? Now as I’ve said, I’ve never done deep sea containers, only ferry trailers and in most terminals you simply wouldn’t find anyone who would give you the time of day if you asked to break an important seal, so its one thing to say what we should be doing on paper, but how is it to be done on the ground in reality? Resorting to the final straw of refusing to take the trailer or container on grounds of not being able to check inside will only last so long and will see you unemployed within the week. How does a driver in that line of work remain employed and responsible for having a secured load, or in reality is the only way to take risks like we all already do and carry on out the dock gate and just hope it’ll be alright because as far as I can see, thats whats happening.
robinhood_1984:
robert1952:
I have to say, Chester’s position is logically solid and right on this one. Here’s an analogy: a good driver’s first rule of the road is, 'If you can’t see to go, you don’t ‘king go!’. Well, it’s the same with load restraint: if your’e not sure whether it’ll move, you don’t ‘king go!’It is of course, but how do you apply that logic away from trucknet and out in the real world. We all know full well that no one checks inside every sealed deep-sea container they collect, they just wing it because its always been alright in the past, until the time it isn’t. As I said in my above post, a shifted or a load that isn’t secured properly and could be an issue further down the road doesn’t necessarily make itself known by feel in the few hundred metres from having the box put on the trailer to the gate, beyond which its your responsibility and its too late. So are we to actually stop 100% of the time and demand every container to be opened by someone, who do you ask? who breaks the seal? where is the seal to be broken? does every container port have loading dock facilities to rectify a compromised load etc? Now as I’ve said, I’ve never done deep sea containers, only ferry trailers and in most terminals you simply wouldn’t find anyone who would give you the time of day if you asked to break an important seal, so its one thing to say what we should be doing on paper, but how is it to be done on the ground in reality? Resorting to the final straw of refusing to take the trailer or container on grounds of not being able to check inside will only last so long and will see you unemployed within the week. How does a driver in that line of work remain employed and responsible for having a secured load, or in reality is the only way to take risks like we all already do and carry on out the dock gate and just hope it’ll be alright because as far as I can see, thats whats happening.
Thinking back to when I did containers, I think there are various reasons for the status quo you mention. Firstly, containers tend to keep the load confined within the body, more perhaps than any other trailer, so fear of losing the load is less. Secondly, because of the high centre-of-gravity of containers, and their propensity to swing on roundabouts and bends (the ‘pendulum effect’), drivers tend to drive more carefully with them. Thirdly, an experienced driver usually has a reasonable idea of how any given container is going to behave on its journey, before he reaches the dock gates. I’m not saying all this means you don’t have to check; I’m simply suggesting why a ‘real life’ pattern has emerged as accepted practise. Robert
chester:
Replying to the post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In container work you can break any seal you want to justify you are taking a load you are responsible for.
Of course you follow correct procedures, port staff, customs , consigner and consignee.
I still stand by my challenge of asking the entire internet to give me a situation where I would not be able to check my load before I drive on a public highway?I once caught up to a box jockey whilst driving my car who had one of those mini JCB all terrain fork lifts hanging out the rear doors of the container.
I managed to gesture for him to follow me in to the MSA.d2m2s if that all terrain fork lift had fell out the back doors onto lane 2 of a motorway,
Is the client, customer, captain of the ferry or you the driver who is at fault?
Only one of the above choices has actually taken responsibility for the carriage of the above on a motorway, so I doubt the ferry captain is at fault for example.A picture for those who are hard of hearing!
If the rear doors was open then no shield to be broken, usually machinery or abnormal freights other types of containers used open top or flat bed so is easy to inspect.
robert1952:
robinhood_1984:
robert1952:
I have to say, Chester’s position is logically solid and right on this one. Here’s an analogy: a good driver’s first rule of the road is, 'If you can’t see to go, you don’t ‘king go!’. Well, it’s the same with load restraint: if your’e not sure whether it’ll move, you don’t ‘king go!’It is of course, but how do you apply that logic away from trucknet and out in the real world. We all know full well that no one checks inside every sealed deep-sea container they collect, they just wing it because its always been alright in the past, until the time it isn’t. As I said in my above post, a shifted or a load that isn’t secured properly and could be an issue further down the road doesn’t necessarily make itself known by feel in the few hundred metres from having the box put on the trailer to the gate, beyond which its your responsibility and its too late. So are we to actually stop 100% of the time and demand every container to be opened by someone, who do you ask? who breaks the seal? where is the seal to be broken? does every container port have loading dock facilities to rectify a compromised load etc? Now as I’ve said, I’ve never done deep sea containers, only ferry trailers and in most terminals you simply wouldn’t find anyone who would give you the time of day if you asked to break an important seal, so its one thing to say what we should be doing on paper, but how is it to be done on the ground in reality? Resorting to the final straw of refusing to take the trailer or container on grounds of not being able to check inside will only last so long and will see you unemployed within the week. How does a driver in that line of work remain employed and responsible for having a secured load, or in reality is the only way to take risks like we all already do and carry on out the dock gate and just hope it’ll be alright because as far as I can see, thats whats happening.
Thinking back to when I did containers, I think there are various reasons for the status quo you mention. Firstly, containers tend to keep the load confined within the body, more perhaps than any other trailer, so fear of losing the load is less. Secondly, because of the high centre-of-gravity of containers, and their propensity to swing on roundabouts and bends (the ‘pendulum effect’), drivers tend to drive more carefully with them. Thirdly, an experienced driver usually has a reasonable idea of how any given container is going to behave on its journey, before he reaches the dock gates. I’m not saying all this means you don’t have to check; I’m simply suggesting why a ‘real life’ pattern has emerged as accepted practise. Robert
^^^^^ think this is just about spot on.
There is the ideal world, and there is the real world. When i did containers this is how i dealt with it, (not saying i was right) but as we all know in the real world you just do the very best you can do. I always treated every container as though it would fall over if you sneezed next to it. Nice smooth, steady driving, gentle on the bends and roundabouts and it always worked for me but we were lucky that we mainly knew what our loads were in advance, mainly packed boxes of meat, or a box full of frozen lambs. I’d still always open those rear doors with caution though
I’m with chester though, we should all be able to check our loads before trundling off down the road with them, but again its ideal world v real world and i can’t see the container shipping industry changing anytime soon. As always, its driver responsibility when the ■■■■ hits the fan though, and it often does.
I’m lucky i don’t do containers anymore but feel its a real catch 22 for those that do.
I’ll soon be moving machinery around, (cherry pickers and the like) on low loaders, beavertails etc so its fully down to me to make sure each machine is correctly loaded and strapped, which is exactly how i like it. Its abit of a steep learning curve, but at least i’m getting the experience in the yard before i start taking them out on the road, once the bloody dvla sort their act out 
ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe … nes_en.pdf
For the Quick give them here a try. Its from another Website.
3.3.5 — Sealed and Containerized Loads
containerized loads generally are used when freight is carried part way by rail or ship. delivery by truck occurs at the beginning and/or end of the journey. Some containers have their own tiedown devices or locks that attach directly to a special frame. others have to be loaded onto flat bed trailers. they must be properly secured just like any other cargo. You cannot inspect sealed loads, but you should check that you do not exceed gross weight and axle weight limits.
Immigrant:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/vehicles/doc/cargo_securing_guidelines_en.pdfFor the Quick give them here a try. Its from another Website.
3.3.5 — Sealed and Containerized Loads
containerized loads generally are used when freight is carried part way by rail or ship. delivery by truck occurs at the beginning and/or end of the journey. Some containers have their own tiedown devices or locks that attach directly to a special frame. others have to be loaded onto flat bed trailers. they must be properly secured just like any other cargo. You cannot inspect sealed loads, but you should check that you do not exceed gross weight and axle weight limits.
End of story!
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Of course, unless it was for the general reasons of being fat, lazy or useless.
I’m pretty sure that someone who uses a set ,documented and recorded loading procedure in line with a risk assesment(i.e Tescos) then yes you are exempt. If you look at the HSE document on safe loading practises then you will see it mentioned in there also.
End of story!
I suggest that anyone who believes that this documnet is the “end of the story” , reads it.
It’s nothing but advice and gives no legal protection at all.
I back haul for tesco and lots are sealed ,I just pick it up,drive it back and leave it in yard ,on bay ,I couldn’t care if it’s strapped ,fallen over or what ,it’s not my problem ,they set the procedure ,so if there’s any issues with load that’s there problem ,you reap what you sow 
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chester1:
didn’t vosa loose a case recently and where found to be going over the top. iirc if the trailer has load restraint curtains and the load is to the headboard and within a certain distance from the curtain certain types of load where deemed secure
more than likely, any driver could take a court case to the EU, history shows EU courts will override VOSA’s interpretations of the rules.
Mike-C:
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Of course, unless it was for the general reasons of being fat, lazy or useless.
I’m pretty sure that someone who uses a set ,documented and recorded loading procedure in line with a risk assesment(i.e Tescos) then yes you are exempt. If you look at the HSE document on safe loading practises then you will see it mentioned in there also.
Are you trying to tell me that just because somebody loads my trailer and signs a sheet that I can’t satisfy and see for myself the load is fit for transportation?
I’ve had DHL tell me they have VOSA dispensation not to restrain loads 
I’ve had stobbies tell me they are allowed to restrain 26t with 2 crossed internals at the rear
So as you can imagine I don’t really care for these internal company policy’s which in real terms means naff all!
I can back up these claims with recorded phone calls to VOSA/ DVSA.
I still stand by my Pepsi challenge.
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Of course, unless it was for the general reasons of being fat, lazy or useless.
I ask again, give me a load which I would not be in a position to check to my satisfaction the suitabilty for road transportation?