A preserved Saviem JL29 with integral van from Teilhol.
After the transport, the (young) new owner try to start…
the french manufacturers produced really stylish lorries while the british were still nailing cheap chicken coops on their chassis . the french put value on their drivers while anything would do here , driver comfort never entered the equation . dave
rigsby:
the french manufacturers produced really stylish lorries while the british were still nailing cheap chicken coops on their chassis . the french put value on their drivers while anything would do here , driver comfort never entered the equation . dave
Hello Riggers…haven’t seen you on here for a bit…hope you’re well… 
Not only the French manafactures that put the driver first, nearly all the French have a respect for the haulage industry, restaurants for a start, warehouse and delivery points in general, and parking up in towns and villages where no one ever complaines…there is an exceptance that has always been missing from the UK .
My friend just up the road from me who lives in a small hamlet of some 20 odd homes, has sectioned off part of his garden to to keep his Volvo /bulk tank trailer in…nobody in the 25 years he’s lived there has ever complained, and he starts anything between 4.00 - 7.00am, also, he’s never had the motor touched… He’s not the only one in our area, there are another 3 drivers that I know of who take their wagons home…can’t see that happening in the UK. I think that the French are more tolerant and have more respect for the " routiers"…
Fergie found this shot on the old Interweb and just wondered if it was Mappo during his stay with you, looks about the right size don’t you agree, JD.
Found a couple more shots but don’t know what they are, so over to you wizards Buzzer.
Buzzer:
Fergie found this shot on the old Interweb and just wondered if it was Mappo during his stay with you, looks about the right size don’t you agree, JD.
Not big enough for Mappo John… :and that bloke is better looking 
…
Buzzer:
1Found a couple more shots but don’t know what they are, so over to you wizards Buzzer.
Buzzer the first one looks like a Willeme and the bottom one is a Bernard Saviem will know the exact models
cheers Johnnie 
Buzzer:
Another shot big brute, what is it ? Buzzer.
Evening all,
Buzzer you would need muscles like Sparrows Ankles to drive that big old Somua!
The Bernard was one of the LW powered ones operated by the Drouin Brothers of Nantes, lovely family, and one of Bernards biggest users. Sadly now all gone, but I have happy memories of them, both as people, and as a business.
That Shark Nose Willeme is a handsome beast. The cab , either as a day, short, or long sleeper was a comfortable work place. Those Nez de Requin`s never photograph just as well as they look, truly they were real lookers, very comely old girls!
Rigsby, and Fergie, you are both right. Why did we have such Garden Sheds to drive in! The chassis may have been good, but boy, do a few hours in a Mk 1 Atkinson, or a KV ERF, let alone a Boalloy cab Guy, or a “tin snail” Leyland…and you knew you had done a good days work!
But the French coachbuilders used the same materials, wood, GRP, Alloy, Steel…but they built to a different set of rules! France is a big old country, and quite rural. Long distances, and a bed behind the seats was a natural requirement. But the vehicles were built to a more generous weight criteria…2 axle 19 tonnes, 3 axle 26 tonnes, three axle artic, (4x2 plus a 1 axle trailer), 32 tonnes, 4x2, plus a 2 axle trailer 35 tonnes.
Yet in the UK we achieved similar payloads, but on much, much lighter chassis. Something had to be sacrificed, and it was driver comfort! Payload was paramount, (when I was first going over the water in the early 60s, my Foden 14 tonner carried the same payload as a French 16 tonner......but his driver sat in a rather splendid environment! Me I was happy in my comfortable alloy and wood S20 Foden cab.......but when in 65 I was given a plastic Micky Mouse…cold in winter, a sauna in summer, noisey, like no other…(but I did have an enormous 150 bhp at my disposal)!!! But what a lorry to drive, and because of this I forgave her “environmental” shortcomings!! But how I used to ■■■■ over the Willeme`s, Berliets, and Bernards, (particularly the Televisions), when I stopped for the night at some Routiers!
But France`s culture celebrates the work of the Artisan", it started with their revolution…In the UK the Artisan was simply beyond recognition, and for some unfathomable reason, the work, and high skill of the lorry driver has never been acknowledged. Its something that I personally feel strongly about, yet the RHA, and the Trade Unions have never projected a positive image regarding our trade.
Now those integral vans, were of an age, by Cottard, Pelpel, Teihol et al, really quite stupendous, and the coach built cabs by Cottard, and particularly Frappa evoked an age long gone of superb automobiles…oh bodywork to ache for…even the last Mack Bernards with that peculiar Pourtout bodywork…style, and function in perfect symmetry…why did we never have such bodies in the UK…just rectangular slab sided Furniture vans…the fault lay within the legislation, drafted to protect the interests of the Railways…but hang on…so was the French legislation…
Perhaps its time for a Bollinger…
Cheerio for now.
Couple more but who is loading next to Armstrong’s, Buzzer.
Saviem:
…
Rigsby, and Fergie, you are both right. Why did we have such Garden Sheds to drive in! The chassis may have been good, but boy, do a few hours in a Mk 1 Atkinson, or a KV ERF, let alone a Boalloy cab Guy, or a “tin snail” Leyland…and you knew you had done a good days work!But the French coachbuilders used the same materials, wood, GRP, Alloy, Steel…but they built to a different set of rules! France is a big old country, and quite rural. Long distances, and a bed behind the seats was a natural requirement. But the vehicles were built to a more generous weight criteria…2 axle 19 tonnes, 3 axle 26 tonnes, three axle artic, (4x2 plus a 1 axle trailer), 32 tonnes, 4x2, plus a 2 axle trailer 35 tonnes.
Yet in the UK we achieved similar payloads, but on much, much lighter chassis. Something had to be sacrificed, and it was driver comfort! Payload was paramount…
Even if GB had allowed 40ton gross vehicles in the 1960s, they would still have had cheap cabs on them. The British mentality of machismo and inverted snobbery is the root of its lagging behind Europe in coachbuilding and, indeed, most forms of technology. “You don’t need all that fancy rubbish.” Fine craftsmanship was reserved for the buyers of expensive cars and boats.
Evening all,
Anorak, I cannot but agree with you…but, and it is a big but, the undeniable fact was that per mile run, we in the UK ran a more productive and intensive operation, (not to say a thousand times more efficient), than our cousins across the water! When I delivered papers to UNOSTRA, or any other French or Italian Trade Organisation, the amazement that registered upon their faces, as they were told of the operations of Smith of Maddiston, or any number of UK hauliers was a joy to behold…our ton, (and I use the Imperial measure), per mile ratio was at least 60% in excess of the best “they” could aspire to…and in many cases over 100%!!!
The prestigious line up of French Hauliers vehicles over a weekend, there for all to see, (and marvel at), was truly an indication of their total inefficiency! The change really came in the 70s, when the coming harmonisation for the European superstate began! Out went the comfortable, efficient bonneted tractors, in came strict overall length rules, (with the Germans driving them home so well), and began the decline in the working standard for the “driver”, (no longer the professional Chauffeur)!!! A very sad day indeed…The UK model of “the men” became, (sadly), the adopted mantra!
I well remember my Grandfather, a Canal Boatman, (from the 1800s to the 20s), bemoaning the fact that “they” were never recognised for their skills…so true of the lorry driver in Britain…you can be, (a real Plonker), of a Schoolteacher, Civil Servant, Local Government Officer,…yet in status they are far above the “lorry driver”…talk about injustice!!!
Buzzer, that looks like one of Andre Giraude`s L serie Scanias to me…where was that shot taken? Andre ran those old L series’ for years and years…until dastardly John Baker got him onto DAFs…(and he got me onto the Bollinger)!!!..But I got them back onto the dear old Berliets…well Renaults actually!
You know Girauds ran down to Italy quite a lot, and my friends at Onatra also, but they also ran into Turkey with their Chemical Tankers, and eventually the long drag to Iran, and Iraq, as did (oh my Bete Noir), Stouff, and the smart DAFs of Transports Carry, then there was Transports Lamy, (a subsidiary of Bourgey Montreuil, in turn a French Railway subsidiary)… and the oh so smart Saviems and Berliets of Transports Chapuis…(how their fleet of Saviems “annoyed” the Berliet Management…a prominent Haulier, based close to home of Berliet in Venissieux…yet running Saviems)!!!..and then there were my friends at VIT…Valenton International Transport, “up north” , based in a castle, in the Val de Marne, not far from Paris.
The great imputus for French hauliers into Iraq started post the Petrol crisis, with the accord signed by Saddam Hussein, and Frances Jacques Chirac in 1973…where for the rights to Iraq oil, (via Frances Elf Acquataine), France extended credit to Iraq to the tune of 15 billion French Francs, for the supply of both Nuclear,( project OSIRAK), and inward investment into Iraq…the creation of a commercial vehicle production facility at Iskandaryiah, (close to Babylon), capable of producing upwards of 10000 units per year…the Product, and expertise were from Saviem.
So how did all the bits that make up a new factory get down to Iraq?
Well, we have to go back to the early `60s for the answer…There were two Brothers, Robert and Marcel Perissaguet, who inherited from their father a rather palatial, (but modest), castle, (Chateau) from the 1700s in Valenton, Val de Marne close to Paris. Much of the estate had to be sold to the local authority, (French rules on inheritance would take pages to explain, and even then there would be more questions than answers)!!!
So they decided that their future was in running lorries…so off they went with a Latil, soon replaced by that well loved, utterly reliable Bussing. Up and down to Holland, without any problems, (those Bussings, supplied by Paris based Garabedien), became a favourite of French TIR men in the early `60s. Economic, powerfull, and utterly reliable…
But by `63, the Brothers Perissaguet knew to develop their business they needed to bring in another…and that was Ramond Armand, ex Transports Eugner, from Nancy, and he became the driving force behind Valenton, and the man who created the image that endures even today.
Armand was a commercial man, he could see the opportunities, the potential, and bring them home…the Brothers Perissaguet could handle the “nuts and bolts”, and the equipment. For instance Valenton were the French agent for the demountable bodywork of Van den Burg from Pijnacker in Holland. How so…because the Brothers driving up to Venlo had seen these bodies in use, had seen the potential, and when they ended up running so many themselves…Burg asked them to become their French agent!
Armand set out to gain business from the Automotive sector…and first conquest was Saviem…
The “Lignes”…Paris-Napoli…Paris -Munich…Paris -Bagdad… The regular routes for Valenton International Transport…(plus a few more…Paris Katmando… and as far a s Lagos, …and back)
Saviem had an accord with Alfa Romeo in Italy, wherby the Saviem/Renault Gallion range was manufactured in Italy, at Pomgliano, near to Naples. The cargo was comprised of body parts, and the 4 cylinder 92hp, 580/591 engines…Return loads…easy, just nip across Italy from Naples, to Pescara, and back to France with windscreens and glass for Simca, and Renault…great rates for a haulier that was on time, and on budget…and Valenton always were!!!
.Valenton began this first line in `64, …but then Saviem management became concerned that the grey and orange livery of Valenton was on Bussing vehicles!..So "advantageous " terms were available…and the first JL 200s arrived with their Henschell 200 hp engines
But then due to the financial problems of Henschel, and its acquisition by Mercedes, Saviem signed the accord with MAN, and the first JL 200, and 240s arrived with the ultra reliable 2146 MAN engine at 240 hp, (there was an easy "tweak, that made the 200, into a 240…and all of Valenton`s JLs were at 240hp), you needed that to get over Ceredon at 35 tonnes down to Naples…
So line 2 began…Paris- Munich…well actually Blainville sur Orne…to Munich, with body parts…then a quick trip north to Nuremburg, and engines back to Blainville…and of course line 1, up and down to Naples was also going like stink!!!..Extra work for Pinin Farina in Turin, Chrysler -Simca, then Magnetti Morelli, plus Michelin…and that took them to Spain,…Mont Blanc opened in `65, and Fergies pictures of the JL drawbar were specially posed for that occasion, (including the Renault Caravelle , (and very smart uniforms for “fingers” elite)!!!
Then came line 3…Paris - Bagdad…and most of the pictures you see of the orange and grey VITs show the Burg demount drawbars with this livery, and perhaps the trailer has the Saviem name on it, either as a 4 wheeler, or more often as a 3 axle non demount, which gave the 35 tonne outfits a 90 cubic metre capacity.
The creation of the Saviem production facility at Iskandaryiah, Salah el Din, ( capable of plus 10000 unit production per year, SM8, and SM 280/340 tractors and rigids) all machine tools, stillages, production equipment, , lock stock and barrel was freighted by Valenton, VIT. Some with its associate Jean Lion, of Paris, and Don Jose Collona, (and their history, and somewhat tragic end is worthy of a discourse of their own), as well as Chapuis, and Lamy.
Raymond Armand had also secured business with Renault to the East, Czechoslovakia, Poland, (Avia axles back to France), Yugoslavia, Renault bits for the Yugo car, and Avia caravans back. The sheer volume of traffic back from Italy necessitated the opening of an Italian office under Piere Bernadet, (super chap, who ended up with Onatra). Kleber, Michelin, Citroen, Renault, what a client list!
But back to line 3, the “Moyen Orient”…it led to the creation by Saviem of its Turkish based support network of mobile workshops…running from the Londra Camping , (I think that I wrote something about these previously, so will not repeat myself)…Valenton dispatched a minimum of one vehicle, (90 co metre drawbar), every single day, 365 days a year, 73/76. All were Burg swop bodied units, and a conventional remorque.
But what were they like to work for? Well, I can only report what I saw, observed and knew, because I had a good business relationship with Valenton, and Raymond, as well as Marcel. As an employee, you abided by the rules, or you were out! Simple. But the rewards were good, average salary plus 12 % on the norm. If on the line 3 Moyen Orient, plus at least 30%, plus a compulsory one week break on full pay on return. No turning around!..oh, and provided that you asked, you could take your wife for the trip, and her expenses were paid as well! Any problems at home whil`st you were away…then the family would be instructed, as company policy , to ring , “Mimi”, (Michelle), and the company would sort it out…and they did, several times…and Mimi…was…(and probably still is)…gorgeous…warm and just lovely!!!
The company boast was…“we never ever leave, abandon, or loose a load”…and they never did. But the Tacho, and particularly its speed trace were examined, and enforced without exception…wherever the driver was…but not hours…
But things were to change…in three key ways…
1980 September,
came the Iran, Iraq war,
June 1981, the Israil`s launched Operation Babylon…blowing up the French designed and built Atomic installation
1981, having finally decided what they should do, the Regie Renault unified the products of Saviem, and Berliet, as Renault, and the logistic operation for Renault Vehicules Industriels came under the control of CAT, ( the total logistic arm of the Regie, 7000 staff, responsible for all product movement ex factory, and intra factory), …perhaps worth of one of my rambles one night!
Raymond ended up for a short time at Onatra, then moved on to Transports Carry, Pierres Italian office became Onatra Italia, and sadly both the Perissaguet brothers suffered poor health and passed away.
Some outfit VIT, a company of high standards, and great integrity, that orange and grey livery lives on in my memory…
Goodness, I have not even mentioned “Les Homes de Rose”…and VITs TV stars, …another night …
Cheerio for now.
Evening all,
Anorak, I cannot but agree with you…but, and it is a big but, the undeniable fact was that per mile run, we in the UK ran a more productive and intensive operation, (not to say a thousand times more efficient), than our cousins across the water! When I delivered papers to UNOSTRA, or any other French or Italian Trade Organisation, the amazement that registered upon their faces, as they were told of the operations of Smith of Maddiston, or any number of UK hauliers was a joy to behold…our ton, (and I use the Imperial measure), per mile ratio was at least 60% in excess of the best “they” could aspire to…and in many cases over 100%!!!
The prestigious line up of French Hauliers vehicles over a weekend, there for all to see, (and marvel at), was truly an indication of their total inefficiency! The change really came in the 70s, when the coming harmonisation for the European superstate began! Out went the comfortable, efficient bonneted tractors, in came strict overall length rules, (with the Germans driving them home so well), and began the decline in the working standard for the “driver”, (no longer the professional Chauffeur)!!! A very sad day indeed…The UK model of “the men” became, (sadly), the adopted mantra!
I well remember my Grandfather, a Canal Boatman, (from the 1800s to the 20s), bemoaning the fact that “they” were never recognised for their skills…so true of the lorry driver in Britain…you can be, (a real Plonker), of a Schoolteacher, Civil Servant, Local Government Officer,…yet in status they are far above the “lorry driver”…talk about injustice!!!
Buzzer, that looks like one of Andre Giraude`s L serie Scanias to me…where was that shot taken? Andre ran those old L series’ for years and years…until dastardly John Baker got him onto DAFs…(and he got me onto the Bollinger)!!!..But I got them back onto the dear old Berliets…well Renaults actually!
You know Girauds ran down to Italy quite a lot, and my friends at Onatra also, but they also ran into Turkey with their Chemical Tankers, and eventually the long drag to Iran, and Iraq, as did (oh my Bete Noir), Stouff, and the smart DAFs of Transports Carry, then there was Transports Lamy, (a subsidiary of Bourgey Montreuil, in turn a French Railway subsidiary)… and the oh so smart Saviems and Berliets of Transports Chapuis…(how their fleet of Saviems “annoyed” the Berliet Management…a prominent Haulier, based close to home of Berliet in Venissieux…yet running Saviems)!!!..and then there were my friends at VIT…Valenton International Transport, “up north” , based in a castle, in the Val de Marne, not far from Paris.
The great imputus for French hauliers into Iraq started post the Petrol crisis, with the accord signed by Saddam Hussein, and Frances Jacques Chirac in 1973…where for the rights to Iraq oil, (via Frances Elf Acquataine), France extended credit to Iraq to the tune of 15 billion French Francs, for the supply of both Nuclear,( project OSIRAK), and inward investment into Iraq…the creation of a commercial vehicle production facility at Iskandaryiah, (close to Babylon), capable of producing upwards of 10000 units per year…the Product, and expertise were from Saviem.
So how did all the bits that make up a new factory get down to Iraq?
Well, we have to go back to the early `60s for the answer…There were two Brothers, Robert and Marcel Perissaguet, who inherited from their father a rather palatial, (but modest), castle, (Chateau) from the 1700s in Valenton, Val de Marne close to Paris. Much of the estate had to be sold to the local authority, (French rules on inheritance would take pages to explain, and even then there would be more questions than answers)!!!
So they decided that their future was in running lorries…so off they went with a Latil, soon replaced by that well loved, utterly reliable Bussing. Up and down to Holland, without any problems, (those Bussings, supplied by Paris based Garabedien), became a favourite of French TIR men in the early `60s. Economic, powerfull, and utterly reliable…
But by `63, the Brothers Perissaguet knew to develop their business they needed to bring in another…and that was Ramond Armand, ex Transports Eugner, from Nancy, and he became the driving force behind Valenton, and the man who created the image that endures even today.
Armand was a commercial man, he could see the opportunities, the potential, and bring them home…the Brothers Perissaguet could handle the “nuts and bolts”, and the equipment. For instance Valenton were the French agent for the demountable bodywork of Van den Burg from Pijnacker in Holland. How so…because the Brothers driving up to Venlo had seen these bodies in use, had seen the potential, and when they ended up running so many themselves…Burg asked them to become their French agent!
Armand set out to gain business from the Automotive sector…and first conquest was Saviem…
The “Lignes”…Paris-Napoli…Paris -Munich…Paris -Bagdad… The regular routes for Valenton International Transport…(plus a few more…Paris Katmando… and as far a s Lagos, …and back)
Saviem had an accord with Alfa Romeo in Italy, wherby the Saviem/Renault Gallion range was manufactured in Italy, at Pomgliano, near to Naples. The cargo was comprised of body parts, and the 4 cylinder 92hp, 580/591 engines…Return loads…easy, just nip across Italy from Naples, to Pescara, and back to France with windscreens and glass for Simca, and Renault…great rates for a haulier that was on time, and on budget…and Valenton always were!!!
.Valenton began this first line in `64, …but then Saviem management became concerned that the grey and orange livery of Valenton was on Bussing vehicles!..So "advantageous " terms were available…and the first JL 200s arrived with their Henschell 200 hp engines
But then due to the financial problems of Henschel, and its acquisition by Mercedes, Saviem signed the accord with MAN, and the first JL 200, and 240s arrived with the ultra reliable 2146 MAN engine at 240 hp, (there was an easy "tweak, that made the 200, into a 240…and all of Valenton`s JLs were at 240hp), you needed that to get over Ceredon at 35 tonnes down to Naples…
So line 2 began…Paris- Munich…well actually Blainville sur Orne…to Munich, with body parts…then a quick trip north to Nuremburg, and engines back to Blainville…and of course line 1, up and down to Naples was also going like stink!!!..Extra work for Pinin Farina in Turin, Chrysler -Simca, then Magnetti Morelli, plus Michelin…and that took them to Spain,…Mont Blanc opened in `65, and Fergies pictures of the JL drawbar were specially posed for that occasion, (including the Renault Caravelle , (and very smart uniforms for “fingers” elite)!!!
Then came line 3…Paris - Bagdad…and most of the pictures you see of the orange and grey VITs show the Burg demount drawbars with this livery, and perhaps the trailer has the Saviem name on it, either as a 4 wheeler, or more often as a 3 axle non demount, which gave the 35 tonne outfits a 90 cubic metre capacity.
The creation of the Saviem production facility at Iskandaryiah, Salah el Din, ( capable of plus 10000 unit production per year, SM8, and SM 280/340 tractors and rigids) all machine tools, stillages, production equipment, , lock stock and barrel was freighted by Valenton, VIT. Some with its associate Jean Lion, of Paris, and Don Jose Collona, (and their history, and somewhat tragic end is worthy of a discourse of their own), as well as Chapuis, and Lamy.
Raymond Armand had also secured business with Renault to the East, Czechoslovakia, Poland, (Avia axles back to France), Yugoslavia, Renault bits for the Yugo car, and Avia caravans back. The sheer volume of traffic back from Italy necessitated the opening of an Italian office under Piere Bernadet, (super chap, who ended up with Onatra). Kleber, Michelin, Citroen, Renault, what a client list!
But back to line 3, the “Moyen Orient”…it led to the creation by Saviem of its Turkish based support network of mobile workshops…running from the Londra Camping , (I think that I wrote something about these previously, so will not repeat myself)…Valenton dispatched a minimum of one vehicle, (90 co metre drawbar), every single day, 365 days a year, 73/76. All were Burg swop bodied units, and a conventional remorque.
But what were they like to work for? Well, I can only report what I saw, observed and knew, because I had a good business relationship with Valenton, and Raymond, as well as Marcel. As an employee, you abided by the rules, or you were out! Simple. But the rewards were good, average salary plus 12 % on the norm. If on the line 3 Moyen Orient, plus at least 30%, plus a compulsory one week break on full pay on return. No turning around!..oh, and provided that you asked, you could take your wife for the trip, and her expenses were paid as well! Any problems at home whil`st you were away…then the family would be instructed, as company policy , to ring , “Mimi”, (Michelle), and the company would sort it out…and they did, several times…and Mimi…was…(and probably still is)…gorgeous…warm and just lovely!!!
The company boast was…“we never ever leave, abandon, or loose a load”…and they never did. But the Tacho, and particularly its speed trace were examined, and enforced without exception…wherever the driver was…but not hours…
But things were to change…in three key ways…
1980 September,
came the Iran, Iraq war,
June 1981, the Israil`s launched Operation Babylon…blowing up the French designed and built Atomic installation
1981, having finally decided what they should do, the Regie Renault unified the products of Saviem, and Berliet, as Renault, and the logistic operation for Renault Vehicules Industriels came under the control of CAT, ( the total logistic arm of the Regie, 7000 staff, responsible for all product movement ex factory, and intra factory), …perhaps worth of one of my rambles one night!
Raymond ended up for a short time at Onatra, then moved on to Transports Carry, Pierres Italian office became Onatra Italia, and sadly both the Perissaguet brothers suffered poor health and passed away.
Some outfit VIT, a company of high standards, and great integrity, that orange and grey livery lives on in my memory…
Goodness, I have not even mentioned “Les Homes de Rose”…and VITs TV stars, …another night …
Cheerio for now.
Evening all,
Anorak, I cannot but agree with you…but, and it is a big but, the undeniable fact was that per mile run, we in the UK ran a more productive and intensive operation, (not to say a thousand times more efficient), than our cousins across the water! When I delivered papers to UNOSTRA, or any other French or Italian Trade Organisation, the amazement that registered upon their faces, as they were told of the operations of Smith of Maddiston, or any number of UK hauliers was a joy to behold…our ton, (and I use the Imperial measure), per mile ratio was at least 60% in excess of the best “they” could aspire to…and in many cases over 100%!!!
The prestigious line up of French Hauliers vehicles over a weekend, there for all to see, (and marvel at), was truly an indication of their total inefficiency! The change really came in the 70s, when the coming harmonisation for the European superstate began! Out went the comfortable, efficient bonneted tractors, in came strict overall length rules, (with the Germans driving them home so well), and began the decline in the working standard for the “driver”, (no longer the professional Chauffeur)!!! A very sad day indeed…The UK model of “the men” became, (sadly), the adopted mantra!
I well remember my Grandfather, a Canal Boatman, (from the 1800s to the 20s), bemoaning the fact that “they” were never recognised for their skills…so true of the lorry driver in Britain…you can be, (a real Plonker), of a Schoolteacher, Civil Servant, Local Government Officer,…yet in status they are far above the “lorry driver”…talk about injustice!!!
Buzzer, that looks like one of Andre Giraude`s L serie Scanias to me…where was that shot taken? Andre ran those old L series’ for years and years…until dastardly John Baker got him onto DAFs…(and he got me onto the Bollinger)!!!..But I got them back onto the dear old Berliets…well Renaults actually!
You know Girauds ran down to Italy quite a lot, and my friends at Onatra also, but they also ran into Turkey with their Chemical Tankers, and eventually the long drag to Iran, and Iraq, as did (oh my Bete Noir), Stouff, and the smart DAFs of Transports Carry, then there was Transports Lamy, (a subsidiary of Bourgey Montreuil, in turn a French Railway subsidiary)… and the oh so smart Saviems and Berliets of Transports Chapuis…(how their fleet of Saviems “annoyed” the Berliet Management…a prominent Haulier, based close to home of Berliet in Venissieux…yet running Saviems)!!!..and then there were my friends at VIT…Valenton International Transport, “up north” , based in a castle, in the Val de Marne, not far from Paris.
The great imputus for French hauliers into Iraq started post the Petrol crisis, with the accord signed by Saddam Hussein, and Frances Jacques Chirac in 1973…where for the rights to Iraq oil, (via Frances Elf Acquataine), France extended credit to Iraq to the tune of 15 billion French Francs, for the supply of both Nuclear,( project OSIRAK), and inward investment into Iraq…the creation of a commercial vehicle production facility at Iskandaryiah, (close to Babylon), capable of producing upwards of 10000 units per year…the Product, and expertise were from Saviem.
So how did all the bits that make up a new factory get down to Iraq?
Well, we have to go back to the early `60s for the answer…There were two Brothers, Robert and Marcel Perissaguet, who inherited from their father a rather palatial, (but modest), castle, (Chateau) from the 1700s in Valenton, Val de Marne close to Paris. Much of the estate had to be sold to the local authority, (French rules on inheritance would take pages to explain, and even then there would be more questions than answers)!!!
So they decided that their future was in running lorries…so off they went with a Latil, soon replaced by that well loved, utterly reliable Bussing. Up and down to Holland, without any problems, (those Bussings, supplied by Paris based Garabedien), became a favourite of French TIR men in the early `60s. Economic, powerfull, and utterly reliable…
But by `63, the Brothers Perissaguet knew to develop their business they needed to bring in another…and that was Ramond Armand, ex Transports Eugner, from Nancy, and he became the driving force behind Valenton, and the man who created the image that endures even today.
Armand was a commercial man, he could see the opportunities, the potential, and bring them home…the Brothers Perissaguet could handle the “nuts and bolts”, and the equipment. For instance Valenton were the French agent for the demountable bodywork of Van den Burg from Pijnacker in Holland. How so…because the Brothers driving up to Venlo had seen these bodies in use, had seen the potential, and when they ended up running so many themselves…Burg asked them to become their French agent!
Armand set out to gain business from the Automotive sector…and first conquest was Saviem…
The “Lignes”…Paris-Napoli…Paris -Munich…Paris -Bagdad… The regular routes for Valenton International Transport…(plus a few more…Paris Katmando… and as far a s Lagos, …and back)
Saviem had an accord with Alfa Romeo in Italy, wherby the Saviem/Renault Gallion range was manufactured in Italy, at Pomgliano, near to Naples. The cargo was comprised of body parts, and the 4 cylinder 92hp, 580/591 engines…Return loads…easy, just nip across Italy from Naples, to Pescara, and back to France with windscreens and glass for Simca, and Renault…great rates for a haulier that was on time, and on budget…and Valenton always were!!!
.Valenton began this first line in `64, …but then Saviem management became concerned that the grey and orange livery of Valenton was on Bussing vehicles!..So "advantageous " terms were available…and the first JL 200s arrived with their Henschell 200 hp engines
But then due to the financial problems of Henschel, and its acquisition by Mercedes, Saviem signed the accord with MAN, and the first JL 200, and 240s arrived with the ultra reliable 2146 MAN engine at 240 hp, (there was an easy "tweak, that made the 200, into a 240…and all of Valenton`s JLs were at 240hp), you needed that to get over Ceredon at 35 tonnes down to Naples…
So line 2 began…Paris- Munich…well actually Blainville sur Orne…to Munich, with body parts…then a quick trip north to Nuremburg, and engines back to Blainville…and of course line 1, up and down to Naples was also going like stink!!!..Extra work for Pinin Farina in Turin, Chrysler -Simca, then Magnetti Morelli, plus Michelin…and that took them to Spain,…Mont Blanc opened in `65, and Fergies pictures of the JL drawbar were specially posed for that occasion, (including the Renault Caravelle , (and very smart uniforms for “fingers” elite)!!!
Then came line 3…Paris - Bagdad…and most of the pictures you see of the orange and grey VITs show the Burg demount drawbars with this livery, and perhaps the trailer has the Saviem name on it, either as a 4 wheeler, or more often as a 3 axle non demount, which gave the 35 tonne outfits a 90 cubic metre capacity.
The creation of the Saviem production facility at Iskandaryiah, Salah el Din, ( capable of plus 10000 unit production per year, SM8, and SM 280/340 tractors and rigids) all machine tools, stillages, production equipment, , lock stock and barrel was freighted by Valenton, VIT. Some with its associate Jean Lion, of Paris, and Don Jose Collona, (and their history, and somewhat tragic end is worthy of a discourse of their own), as well as Chapuis, and Lamy.
Raymond Armand had also secured business with Renault to the East, Czechoslovakia, Poland, (Avia axles back to France), Yugoslavia, Renault bits for the Yugo car, and Avia caravans back. The sheer volume of traffic back from Italy necessitated the opening of an Italian office under Piere Bernadet, (super chap, who ended up with Onatra). Kleber, Michelin, Citroen, Renault, what a client list!
But back to line 3, the “Moyen Orient”…it led to the creation by Saviem of its Turkish based support network of mobile workshops…running from the Londra Camping , (I think that I wrote something about these previously, so will not repeat myself)…Valenton dispatched a minimum of one vehicle, (90 co metre drawbar), every single day, 365 days a year, 73/76. All were Burg swop bodied units, and a conventional remorque.
But what were they like to work for? Well, I can only report what I saw, observed and knew, because I had a good business relationship with Valenton, and Raymond, as well as Marcel. As an employee, you abided by the rules, or you were out! Simple. But the rewards were good, average salary plus 12 % on the norm. If on the line 3 Moyen Orient, plus at least 30%, plus a compulsory one week break on full pay on return. No turning around!..oh, and provided that you asked, you could take your wife for the trip, and her expenses were paid as well! Any problems at home whil`st you were away…then the family would be instructed, as company policy , to ring , “Mimi”, (Michelle), and the company would sort it out…and they did, several times…and Mimi…was…(and probably still is)…gorgeous…warm and just lovely!!!
The company boast was…“we never ever leave, abandon, or loose a load”…and they never did. But the Tacho, and particularly its speed trace were examined, and enforced without exception…wherever the driver was…but not hours…
But things were to change…in three key ways…
1980 September,
came the Iran, Iraq war,
June 1981, the Israil`s launched Operation Babylon…blowing up the French designed and built Atomic installation
1981, having finally decided what they should do, the Regie Renault unified the products of Saviem, and Berliet, as Renault, and the logistic operation for Renault Vehicules Industriels came under the control of CAT, ( the total logistic arm of the Regie, 7000 staff, responsible for all product movement ex factory, and intra factory), …perhaps worth of one of my rambles one night!
Raymond ended up for a short time at Onatra, then moved on to Transports Carry, Pierres Italian office became Onatra Italia, and sadly both the Perissaguet brothers suffered poor health and passed away.
Some outfit VIT, a company of high standards, and great integrity, that orange and grey livery lives on in my memory…
Goodness, I have not even mentioned “Les Homes de Rose”…and VITs TV stars, …another night …
Cheerio for now.
Apologies, done without my specs…can someone delete the extra posts for me…Apologies…silly old goat…Im driven to a small Bollinger…No more!!!
Cheerio for now.
Morning all,
Sort of a brief postscript about Valenton.
So close was the relationship with Saviem that often “trials” of components including them being fitted to Valenton lorries for “in service” trials. These could range from the minor, to the major…axles, gearboxes etc, with appropriate support available along which ever “ligne” the vehicle was engaged on. Italy, Germany, Moyen Orient.
Cheerio for now.
John, fascinating, interesting, brilliant information and recollections. You really must put a book together about your time in France.
John,
Just amazing your knowledge and memory,thanks again for the most interesting thread on Trucknet.
The picture Buzzer put on of the Scania was taken at Nicolas in Paris I would guess as it is very similar to this one, with 3 Chauffeurs sampling the vin rouge
Regards
Richard
