Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

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anorak:
The pictures of the French lorries and the British buildings speak of days in which the appearance of a thing had some value. Although I agree with ROF’s statement that the AJS building has not been damaged too much, the changes are significant. The “texture” of the building has been trashed. The new colours would be perfect as highlights, for example on a sign, but for the whole ground floor? No. At least the render can be removed, if future generations have the eye of those of the past.

Is the aluminium office block still with us? Nowt wrong with modernism.

Anorak, Office block has been demolished and i went past AJS building and it has changed again, cannot make out sign anymore, will take a pic at the weekend,Cheers Pete

Hi Saviem,Here is a local one for you,one of Tony Holmes’s, Cheer’s Pete.

Berliet GR12 from 1967 AEM-Picotty.

Hi Saviem,Some pic’s of AJS/Briton/Swallow side car factory in Lower Walsall Street, according to info everything went belly up in the early thirties and Ever-ready took over the site mid thirties,Cheers Pete

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pete smith:
Anorak, Office block has been demolished and i went past AJS building and it has changed again, cannot make out sign anymore, will take a pic at the weekend,Cheers Pete

If we have any sign writers on TN maybe we should organise a work party one weekend? I reckon we could make a fair job of it if we had young Saviem as Site Foreman!

Hi Pete,

Thanks for all the old pics of Wolverhampton brings back memories of my time at Warstones School, and later at Highfields School,and my father who was a rep for Raybestos Brake linings calling on all the hauliers in the Midlands,and influenced my career in the transport game :unamused:

Regards

Richard

Here’s me thinking AJS that’s a motorbike :blush: as Saviem mentions it went away beyond that, so I’ve been doing a bit o’ reading about them, the Stevens family business was started by Joseph Stevens, a blacksmith at Wednesfield, Wolverhampton in 1856.
Oily

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pete smith:
Hi Saviem,Some pic’s of AJS/Briton/Swallow side car factory in Lower Walsall Street, according to info everything went belly up in the early thirties and Ever-ready took over the site mid thirties,Cheers Pete

Swallow Sidecars, the company that morphed into Jaguar.

kevmac47:

pete smith:
Hi Saviem,Some pic’s of AJS/Briton/Swallow side car factory in Lower Walsall Street, according to info everything went belly up in the early thirties and Ever-ready took over the site mid thirties,Cheers Pete

Swallow Sidecars, the company that morphed into Jaguar.

My Dad had two Jaguar SS saloons, though I don’t remember them.

The ‘SS’ stood for Swallow Sidecar. But unfortunately after the war, it took on a different connotation!

So they dropped the SS.

I think the first big saloon was the Mark V11. We had one of those too. I loved it! As Merlin said on another thread, if only we still had those motors now!

John

Evening all,

Fascinating all the bits you are all putting up Gentlemen, thank you one and all!

Pete, thank you for the old pictures of Wolverhampton, its sad how it has nearly all gone. Even the bits that could be saved are now going to be demolished, (non more so than Millers old steam mill, close to both Pete`s and my own heart). Raybestos, now thee is a memory, they were really big at one time, a universally well accepted product. Richard, was that how you ended up" down south", a job move for your Dad?

Oily, that bit on AJS was well researched, (especially the picture of the bus…Porlock must have been a fearfull hill in those days). Jim Stevens, who carried on a little precision engineering business from the old Retreat Works up until the early 2000s was the son of Billie, the youngest of the Stevens Brothers, (George Jack, Harry, and Joe ), who had founded AJS. The Graisley Hill works were considerably larger than the Lower Walsall Street operation. From your picture Pete, it looks like the Monumental Masons were in occupation in Retreat Street, who also have a place on the Tettenhall Road.

Nice picture of one of Tony Holmes Big Js, (180 Gardner), and a Thompson Trailmobile tandem. Tony had all the work from CB Smith in Neachells Lane, just down from Willenhall Motor Radiator. And the tip at Palmers Cross where the Foundry waste went! Built himself a lovely neo Georgian pile by it! When did Tony pass on? Not too long ago. I always got on with him, but he was pretty “cute”. Had a nice Horsebox on a 200 serie Seddon.

Michel, very evocative those big 19 tonne Berliet 12 litres. That cab was superb, Relax by name, and Relax by nature. A truly superb driving environment for the 1960s, (and beyond). As Fergie implied, “we”, in the UK never had anything that good to work in! Mind you, Berliets in house design team received help from Phillip Charbonneaux, to get it just so! Perhaps one of the Western Worlds most iconic designer/conceptualiser/stylists that there has ever been!

I shall remove a fresh cork in a few minutes, and toast the memory of such a man!

Cheeerio for now.

Some pic’s of how Lower Walsall Street works looks today,second pic is took off bridge by Wulfruna coal yard,
Saviem, I did not know Tony had passed away, used to deliver feed when he kept the cattle at Palmers Cross,I am i right Tony used to work for Mr Meredith at Fordhouse Transport? I have a Guy publicity photo somewhere of one of A.C Holmes big J’s tipping sand and i am pretty sure it is Tony at the controls,any one else got a copy they could post please?
Thank you Oily for the pics, the car has even got a Wolverhampton reg and as Saviem says climbing Porlock hill in a vehicle from that era must have been a good test but what about the descent? Cheer’s Pete

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pete smith:
Thank you Oily for the pics, the car has even got a Wolverhampton reg and as Saviem says climbing Porlock hill in a vehicle from that era must have been a good test but what about the descent? Cheer’s Pete

It must have been a bum-clencher going down!
In the early 1970s I had a 7.5 ton Ford D-series with ten tons of sheet steel bound for the little forge at the bottom of Porlock Hill. One of the scariest descents of my life, undertaken in bottom gear with one hand on the door handle. :blush: :unamused:

Very different, very French :smiley: . Regards Chris

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I have been to Lille, but it was many years ago! Hopefully some of these wonderful buildings are still standing?! Regards Chris

Hi

Was this an early Kangaroo trailer ?
Regards
Richard

Evening all,

Gentlemen, what superb images, thank you all for posting them!

Pete, that whole area of lower Walsall Street has been somewhat decimated over the years. Though I still have a fancy of what could be created from the remmenents of Walkers , Wulfruna Coal Yard…it faces South, and could , (with a bit of imagination), be revamped to become a veritable “hanging gardens of Babylon”…using Brindleys Old Main Line, as a backdrop…sadly my lady wife does not enthuse towards living in Horsley Fields Wolverhampton!!!

Oily, (and anyone else interested in the Automotive history of Wolverhampton)…The Star, Briton, and Clyno register may be of interest…amazing just how many have survived, and all over the world at that…its here on the internet…(although with our lousey internet access I have been precluded from looking at it in detai)l…but it is really interesting as is the history of Wolverhampton as a Motor Vehicle manufacturing centre!

Now then adr…why did you put that picture up?..All through today, whilst enjoying the rain, from the relative comfort, (a subjective word indeed)! of the cab of my old Hy Mac.......(and what a faithful servant she has been), I have been removing a myriad of tons of good clay Staffordshire sub soil, that stands in the way of my intended vista for my , (in the process of conversion), former Cow Shed......and I have been thinking about that wonderful person Phillipe Charbonneaux.......and his myriad of creations.......not least that Berliet based Voix Du Nord caravan.......(note that it has the "face" of the Bernard "Television cab, even though it is a Berliet,and a very low specification one at that)!.......but that was Charbonneauxs strength…making something humble, into something spectacular!!!

Perhaps you will allow me to give a small pen portrait of the man, his

creations, and his vision. And those of you who know far more, please contribute, for I only met him once, in his old age, but quick of thought, and wit, he certainly was…and clear in his desire to create vehicles that gave pleasure to both driver and passenger, and above all were safe to use!

Phillip Charbonneaux, born into a Farming Family in 1917.

A dreamer at school…with a love of Aviation. Joined the French Airforce in 37, and passed to our own RAF in 40.

His keen eye for detail ensured a role in air reconnaisence

Married Nicole in 1943…

Post war, the results of his constant barrage pre war, of the major French Coachbuilders bore fruit in that Soc Figoni, introduced Charbonneaux to Delahaye to re design their motor car bodies.

Just prior to this Charbonneaux has designed a aerodynamic rear engine car for the racing driver Jean Pierre Wimele, shown at the 48 Salon, it was a sensation, with the driving position central, and the passengers either side, (as the much later Matra design). However Wimeles death in practice for the Argentinian GP, cut short the promise of production.

The period with Delahaye, resulting in quite stunning designs, resulted in an approach from Harley Earl, the Head of Design for General Motors in Detroit. The period was not good for Charbonneaux, who could not enjoy the American discipline of a designer only being responsible for one element of a vehicles design…say the dashboard…it caused many clashes…

But it is undeniable, (given the pictorial evidence available), that the sensation, that was the 1953 Chevrolet Corvette, perhaps the best Corvette shape ever, was a creation of Phillip Charbonneaux!

Back in France, and with a studio at 50 Rue Copernic Paris , he was inundated with work, both with motor cars, and commercial vehicles. Amongst which were:

The redesign and relaunch of the Rosengart estate, (Vivor), and saloon car, (Ariette), where his skill created a new image, on very old mechanics!

The `52, Ford “symmetric” Vedette 4 door saloon car, but the major coachbuilders were under threat…post WW2 France was short of cash! People were not buying motor cars for the expensive coach builders to body…so where would the business come from?

Well how about the incredible creation, the articulated studio/presentation outfit for Pathe Marconi, of `52. Perhaps the vehicle that Gerry Anderson used as the outline for his Thunderbirds models, so close is the design!

Charbonneaux had the constant parallel that his love of Aviation, and the lines of Aircraft should, and would have a synergy with that of Road vehicles, both motor car and lorry, and bus! An ideology that would persist throughout his life!

The Air Ministry required a new," avant garde" recruitment vehicle…the only constraint, (apart from a modest financial budget), was that the designer would have to base his vehicle on a current useage unit…a ChaussonAH 48, with a petrol engine…most refused the , (very), large challenge…but not Charbonneaux!

What he created…an aeroplane on wheels, lasted 20 years, covered 300000kms, and was still well ahead of the game in the `60s!!!

Then there were the futuristic, and totally wild designs for BIC Biro`s, Formica, The Rocket for ESSO, (pulled by a lowly International .542…(but that is Budget constraints for you)!!!

Then the elevating kitchen display for Astra…and his invitation, (at the personal request of Paul Berliet)…“.to assist”, with the design of the new cab for the Berliet heavies…the outcome…the sensational `60s Relax cabin…

Then of course came the revolutionary Stradair…(perhaps the worlds first totally air suspended lorry, front and rear, 1960s!!! And Charbonneaux designed the cab, and it was good…and there were further plans…

My little office in Venisseux, betwixt the Press Shop, and the Design Studio, with its bank of dusty cabinets yielded treasures beyond belief…copies of Charbonneaux`s designs for a bonnete cab for the “big” V6, and V8 Stradairs…wow, what a presence they would have had!

But meanwhile, Charbonneaux had created a new image for the Television builder Tele Avia…(and done some work on Washing Machine design)…

Then came the commission to design a vehicle to replace the Aircraft like design that the studio had created for Organisation, Radio Television Francais, and the result was the first version of the cab that was to become the Bernard Television…(as Charbonneaux had to seek the permission of TeleAvia, to copy, and enlarge their Television front, into the face of a lorry cab)…oh, they said yes!!!

Often the ORTF 4 wheeler is shown parked next to a Renault 8…why?

Because at the end of the life of the Renault Dauphine, (anyone remember them)? Renault simply could not get any of the Italian bodybuilders to create a handsome body on such humble running gear…but Charbonneaux did…and what a car resulted…even good enough to race

But he created a fire appliance for Berliet,the FF 4x4, , and perhaps Berliets finest on a GBK, GAK, and GCK chassis, with only straight panels…(known affectionally by its crews as “the circle”)…

A double deck bus for Paris, a most creative airport bus, powered by a Perkins diesel, driving individual wheel electric motors, having an identical back and front…used at Orly, so some of you must have ridden in them!

Then if you were in a Boeng 707, or a DC8, then you would have been pushed away by a very stylist Charbonneaux 600hp “pusher”

Or if you were dead…then a very sombre PFG funeral herse on a Saviem SB chassis would have taken you to your place of buriel…or BBQing!!!

Oh and in between all this he created a magical redesign of the Citroen 2cv, …became a sensation…but Dragonnet the bodybuilders were slow…so he took the conversions in house!!!

Oh I forgot the Presidential Limousine for SIMCA, or the incredible `63 luxury, (to rival our own Rolls Royce), Delage…

But my love, his designs for Bernard…the Television…so dramatic…but in its early form so “jelly like”…designed to tilt, (like Trevor Dudleys, Virgin Exnors inspired Invincible cab for Guy), the design exceeded the materials used capacity by some margin…but the revision to fixed base, and porthole sleeper windows cured those "little " problems!

Then there were the sensational looking single cabs, based on Bernards TDA6RA long wheelbase lorry, used as a tractor, with the single seat cab way out front of the front axle alongside the brutal Gardner licence built 185 hp engine the cab and bodywork by Pourtout, who had turned so many of Charbonneaux`s ideas into the metal. Only a few were sold, and the only operator that I knew who ran them being Connileau, based in Villeneuve de Garenne. But what a looker…but a bit odd to drive I suspect!

Charbonneaux`s designs for the next generation of Bernards harked back to his luxury car designs for Delage, but were sadly not to be…for Mack took over, and his Television cab sat over Mack running gear…

But Renault called, and the oh so comfortable R16 was his design, …a simple build being the brief…and with the bodybuilder Augenau he created a 3 box version with a boot…but Renault said No!

His last design was the Ellipsis, in effect an ellips on three wheels…with a 6 cylinder Porsche Engine…300kph…and a turning circle that would embares a London Taxi! 7 versions were built from 95, and all were incredible drivers......but in 98 at the age of 81 Phillipe Charbonneaux left us. But what an inheritance, what clarity of thought, and what handsome lorry designs!

Phillipe, I raise a Bollinger to your memory!

Cheerio Gentlemen.

Richard, just seen your post…yes it was…may be tomorrow I will tel the story of that type of outfit!!!

M. Saviem , what a brilliant insight into who must of been a truly remarkable gentleman . Thank you very much for posting such a brilliant piece of information any additions would I know be welcome . Cheers Dennis.

Latecomer here to Saviem’s Fan Club;makes for great reading & viewing.
Many thanks for sharing one & all :wink:

Hi Saviem, Old photo of Milk Collection,don’t know where photo was taken,Ford or Chevvy? Cheers Pete

Sorry to Hi-Jack your thread Saviem, Couple of pics for Maggie D, first one Warstones school and second one the newly rebuilt Highfields, Cheers Pete

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