Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

[saviem]

Hello all,

Amazing thing this technology, leaves me far behind! There I was as boring as ever, waxing lyrical about pv83s post of 17 Fevrier, with the pictures of the ex Mayer, MKTS Willemes, and all of Fergies excellent pictures when.........it aint there anymore…the old interweb has gone!..Then begins the saga…

So I lost my discourse, (including the personal tales about the Robert Leyx TBO Berliet shown by Buzzer)…one of four that old girl, with the 60 tonne neck on that Nicolas 4 axle module behind her…even carried a 140 tonne Poclain 1000 with its twin Detroit V8s…still it spared you all getting fed up…Leyx, then SCALEX, then, (as today), SCALES, perhaps of all my French Heavy Haulage friends, Leyx, SCALEX, and her people were my favourite…but its close with all the others!

So then I do battle with my ISP…are any of these people for real? Ye Gods, if we had given the same levels of service with lorries we would have been out of business overnight!..“.Any road up”, Im back, and what fabulous contributions from everyone…and what a feast of photographs, you have all excelled yourselves, …may I make a few comments?

And at this stage I w`ont get drawn into ROFs trouble making…except to say that the outfit on picture 1 is going FORWARDS! …Now what are the Tractors?..any ideas…Froggy 55, and Michel will probably know…but I think that Sammyopposite may have seen just one of these on his travels!

Pete, that beautiful Bernard is from the exqusite fleet of René Bastier, Auto Express Moderne, Rue Lavaurd, Souterraine, Creuse. The company was based around the delivery of prime hanging Limousin beef to the main French markets, and in particular, Paris. René Bastier was an engineer of some ability, enjoying a close working relationship with Edouard Bernard, and his son Charles.

Fergies dream machine, the Television cab 8x4 32 tonner of 1962 was his, and his chief Mechanic, (Fleet Engineer, in todays parlance), Roger Chambraud, and Renés son Jackys design, and idea to provide a safe, and stable means of transporting meat to the markets irrespective of the driving conditions.

But the innovation had begun many years before in the 50s with the 6x2 " Paquebot" Somua, with its single tyred bogie, fitted with pneumatic sanding device in front of the drive axle, and heavenly looking integral fridge bodywork by Carrosserie du centre Cháteroux, but the lorry Pete asks about, well a real Pedigree example.

That handsome, Phillipe Charbonneaux designed “Ronde” cab, built gy Georges Pelpels Royanne, (Rennes), operation, sat above a Gardner designed, but licence built, Bernard engineered 185 hp, engine, with a 12 speed ZF box, down to a Dunlop Pneuride air suspended double drive hub reduction Bernard bogie.

The barely visible trailer, with its Thermo King SRL30 unit, is a 50 cubic metre Cazenave Goelette unit, running on air suspended tandem axles. AEM ran several versions of this so stable drop frame trailer, latterly behind both 4x2, and 6x4 Bernard Television cabbed TA 2P 180.35 tractors, again on air, and this was the early 60s! I remember parkin alongside a couple of these in Paris in `64, and just staring at them, we simply had nothing like them in the UK, how I longed to drive such a lorry…but it was over 10 years later before I was able to do so…and it was worth the wait!..But Pete, personally I prefer the “Ronde” cab, somehow it just looked so pure…and it had a big bed behind the seats!

Cheerio for now.

[saviem]

Sorry! I have just seen the EDF Pacific and its problems, just a couple of thoughts…

EDF and GDF, (Electricité de France, and Gaz de France), were created by the Nationalisation of all French energy producers in March 1946.

The major expansion of the electricity industry, Hydro Electric, and later Nuclear created a massive demand for heavy haulage. As well as the big private players, Bourgey- Montreuil, Grenoble, Farcat, Gary de Faves Paris, STAG, (Societe Transports Automobiles Gennervilliers), Dessirier H Zucconi, Paris, Mayer , Nancy, and the succesive amalgamations of thoose companies controlled by the French State Railways SNCF, EDF itself also began to operate its own heavy haulage operation.

Initially with Diamond T 980, and 981s, coupled to the ubiquitous Rogers M9 three line, 24 wheeled (8.25x15), 45 ton ex Sherman Tank transporters. Then two Pacific MTR1 M26 6x4 tractors were acquired. (The Pacific became such a backbone of French Heavy Haulage, that it is easier to name those operators who did not run them, rather than those who did)! EDF simply removed the fully armoured cab from the Pacific, (losing 9 tons in unladen weight in the process…3/4 armour plate is quite heavy! This was replaced by a wood and aluminium structure, with clear glazing, and fully opening doors for ventilation. But the Hall and Scott 17.9 litre straight 6, 240 hp @2000 rpm, and 810 lb ft torque @1200 rpm, petrol engine remained, as did the 4 speed Fuller primary box, and three speed auxillary…and the chain final drive to the fully braked Knucky Truck Company centre pivot, walking beam bogie, (with 18 in of axle articulation, and “fiddle brake” facility whereby each side could be locked individually to aid manoueverability, “skid steer fashion”. …Oh Pacifics had no front brakes…but they did have hydraulic assistance for steering! The lot ran on 1400x20 tyre equipment.

Actually quite a comfortable drive, at all of 26 mph, lovely driving position, with the Hall and Scott, (or in many cases a 12 litre ■■■■■■■ retro fit either straight, or with a Roots type supercharger…300 plus hp!!! right along side, and towering above the driver…

But in Fergies picture the EDF Pacific is pulling, (and loosing), EDFs first true heavy trailer combination, a two line of 4 wheeled dollie, pus a 4 line , (four wheels each line) rear bogie manufactured by Neuilly sur Seine based Ets SCARI, conceived by engineers Serge Aubert, and Pierre Ferrari, this 100 tonne payload Transformer trailer was based on the adaption of the British Mk 1 40 tonne trailer, as was the triple line twin bogie version that Fergie has also pictured.

Perhaps EDFs most spectacular trailer was the Remorques Robert from Blenod-les -Teul, Merth et Moselle, built 200 tonne payload twin 6 line, (4 wheels to each line) bogie monster, whose hydraulic suspension could lift a 200 tonne payload 250mm!!!

EDFs tractor policy was interesting, not the least because in the late 60s they imported from the USA two brand new Diamond T 120 tonners with ■■■■■■■ power. But then there were the Willeme RD 202BHs with AEC 690 power, but they overheated in use at 150 tonnes, so the next ones had 12 litre ■■■■■■■ power…and the last a Detroit V8 and Fuller 13 speed…all sitting under M Pelpels handsome cab…

But lets not forget the Berliets, the handsome Relax cab based TBOs, there were 4 of them, but then came the revolution to less specialised, but more all round driveability heavy haulage tractors…the 80 tonne TRH 320s, then the TRH350TS @ 120, then 150 tonnes, and long after I was gone from France the bullish TR R 360, and R420s @180 tonnes, but by then EDFs arm was called SETRAL, (Service Transports Lourde), and those screaming, explosive Pacifics had long gone!

Im away for a Bollinger,

Cheerio for now.

Sort of a PS…

That UK reg GBH was initially imported to test the market for an on/off road dumper chassis by Renault Truck and Bus , Park Royal London. She was bodied and did the rounds of the major opencast operators…there is a story that one Scottish operator complained that she was a bit “sluggish”…but when weighed showed a gross weight of 60 plus tonnes…he went quiet! …266 hp gentlemen… and have you ever seen a bogie like that on the GBH?..Going back to Heavy Haulage Robert Leyx had a special TR250 with a rear double drive bogie from a GBH fitted to it…leased from Via Location, boy what a compact powerhouse…

My Bollinger calls

[pete_smith]

Hi Saviem,
Thank you for the information on that Ronde cabbed Bernard,all riding on air as well! I don’t want to sound like I’m knocking the British trucks of the time,but they missed a few tricks on development didn’t they?
Fergie/Froggy55,
Are there any of these Bernards preserved and if so do they attend any rallies? Cheer’s Pete

[froggy55]

pete smith:
Hi Saviem,
Thank you for the information on that Ronde cabbed Bernard,all riding on air as well! I don’t want to sound like I’m knocking the British trucks of the time,but they missed a few tricks on development didn’t they?
Fergie/Froggy55,
Are there any of these Bernards preserved and if so do they attend any rallies? Cheer’s Pete

I’ll see if I can get further information. Meanwhile, here are two more pictures of the apparently unique Bernard TA 2P 160-35 built specially for AEM in 1960.

Before it got its fleet painting.

In B&W with its trailer. Pictures from Charge-Utile Magazine special issue n°17

[michel]

A Berliet TR 250 6x4 with the same rear tandem as a GBH:

Bernard are not the most popular lorry in the rally scene in France but some are preserved ,mostly in bonneted form.

[michel]

This lorry is preserved , it’s a Cottard integral body.

[michel]

This tractor is also in a famous west France collection.

[michel]

Often seen in rallies which take place in center-west of France, this old well-restored 6x2.

[michel]

An other one from south France.

[michel]

Preserved in North of France, this one has a Mack engine and gearbox.

[michel]

An other one with the same mechanical.

[froggy55]

michel:
This lorry is preserved , it’s a Cottard integral body.

Thanks Michel! I now remember I saw a very similar one at La Ferté-Alais, almost 20 years ago. It was in running order, and I had a chat with its owner. Maybe the same truck?

[froggy55]

And another Berliet TRH 250, which has been in the same place for more than 10 years now, longing for restoration. Former wrecker of the Renault Truck dealer in Nevers (Center France).

[pete_smith]

Thank You Michel and Froggy for the pictures and information,I can see a trip to France next year to coincide with a few rallies, Cheer’s Pete

[fergie47]

Wreckers…

[fergie47]

Nice looking wagon…

[fergie47]

Back to heavies, another Pacific

[fergie47]

Interesting tilt cab jobbie

And one for Mr Smith, trailing axle by the look of it

[saviem]

Fergie47:
Nice looking wagon…

Evening all,

Fergie, that is a really interesting picture, because it shows a Unic ZU121, “Izoard” of the late `50s with a really unusual choice of the stylish Frappa cab, the company, Transports Muller was located at Pré vessin , Ain, and as common practice to provide more cooling for its 6 cylinder ZU 6 RBD of 9.84 litres 160 hp, relied on its driver removing the side panels from the bonnet of the 35 tonne drawbar outfit!

The cabs of both Frappa, and Bourg en Bresse based Cottard are easy to confuse, but Cottard`s cab window profile has a more pronounced slope to the rear. Frappa normally swept the cab right down to the front of the drive axle on tractors…none more handsome than those operated by Frigidaire of Genervilliers main contractor, Transports Borca, whose Frappa cabbed Bernards were sheer delight to see, let alone their later Bernard/Macks, with their stainless steel American Dorsey tandem axle trailers.

That Transports Muller drawbar must have been a big mileage unit, as it has twin fuel tanks, but I remember running alongside Muller units, most of which where standard specification sleeper cab Verduns. They did a lot of traffic into, and out of Suisse in the 60s.

That handsome Letourneur et Marchand cab on the Verdun, (I think), parked next to the Izoard, was designed yet again by that superb engineer, and style conceptunalist, Phillipe Charbonneaux. You really have to look at one of those cabs, then sit in the drivers seat to fully appreciate just how forward thinking was Charbonneaux…those cabs were late 1950s!!!..and the beds were meant to be slept on for a good nights sleep…

Lovely lorries those Unics, synchromesh gears, powered steering, fully insulated, big sleepers, and that bonnet…those louvres…all that power…riding on 1200x20s…but a bit confusing on names…Galibier/Izoard…the same lorry?..mais oui!

Thanks for the memories

Cheerio for now.

[fergie47]

Saviem:

Fergie47:
Nice looking wagon…

Evening all,

Fergie, that is a really interesting picture, because it shows a Unic ZU121, “Izoard” of the late `50s with a really unusual choice of the stylish Frappa cab, the company, Transports Muller was located at Pré vessin , Ain, and as common practice to provide more cooling for its 6 cylinder ZU 6 RBD of 9.84 litres 160 hp, relied on its driver removing the side panels from the bonnet of the 35 tonne drawbar outfit!

The cabs of both Frappa, and Bourg en Bresse based Cottard are easy to confuse, but Cottard`s cab window profile has a more pronounced slope to the rear. Frappa normally swept the cab right down to the front of the drive axle on tractors…none more handsome than those operated by Frigidaire of Genervilliers main contractor, Transports Borca, whose Frappa cabbed Bernards were sheer delight to see, let alone their later Bernard/Macks, with their stainless steel American Dorsey tandem axle trailers.

That Transports Muller drawbar must have been a big mileage unit, as it has twin fuel tanks, but I remember running alongside Muller units, most of which where standard specification sleeper cab Verduns. They did a lot of traffic into, and out of Suisse in the 60s.

That handsome Letourneur et Marchand cab on the Verdun, (I think), parked next to the Izoard, was designed yet again by that superb engineer, and style conceptunalist, Phillipe Charbonneaux. You really have to look at one of those cabs, then sit in the drivers seat to fully appreciate just how forward thinking was Charbonneaux…those cabs were late 1950s!!!..and the beds were meant to be slept on for a good nights sleep…

Lovely lorries those Unics, synchromesh gears, powered steering, fully insulated, big sleepers, and that bonnet…those louvres…all that power…riding on 1200x20s…but a bit confusing on names…Galibier/Izoard…the same lorry?..mais oui!

Thanks for the memories

Cheerio for now.

Thanks John…really appreciated…

Was getting a little concerned when I hadn’t seen you on here for a bit, thought you might have fallen in a pot of white emulation… or Mrs Saviem had locked you in the cow shed as she didn’t like the white, and you had to do it again in magnolia, worse still, in off white with a hint of peach, satin finish…was going to get the lads around to check on you…