the maoster:
Meistre:
Silver_Surfer:
That load is as safe as houses.Say’s who?
Silver Surfers 20 or 30+ years experience, that’s who. What are you bringing to the table?
This has to be one of the best come backs on tnuk! Pure class!
so are the majority saying
A the load is safe
B the load is definately not safe and will fall off the trailer at the first corner
or C the load is in reality going nowhere, but due to the H&S/Vosa ■■■■■■■■ on load security we have to put up with today you wouldnt dare take to the road with it for fear of losing your license?
I think the fact is that if you drive far with the load like that today with vosa handing out fines your asking for a pull
do you need to draw unwanted attention?
That 'ont fall off… Thar ain’t nuffin stoppin it…
Lovely load black line it round the roundabouts
chaversdad:
so are the majority sayingA the load is safe
B the load is definately not safe and will fall off the trailer at the first corner
or C the load is in reality going nowhere, but due to the H&S/Vosa [zb] on load security we have to put up with today you wouldnt dare take to the road with it for fear of losing your license?
Then its C for me!
yea but no but yea but no but yea 
Meistre:
the maoster:
Meistre:
Silver_Surfer:
That load is as safe as houses.Say’s who?
Silver Surfers 20 or 30+ years experience, that’s who. What are you bringing to the table?
DfT Code Of Practice: Safety of loads on vehicles. 3rd Edition, section 7.11 (page 44). Copy available in your Transport Office with your TM, copy on the TCs desk, and a copy with VOSA. The original was written (with the use of various research organisations including TRRL in the early 70s)
You can argue the point, but if the load moves it’s £300 to the VOSA Christmas fund…they refer to us as “customers”…I like to be the non-paying kind of customer. But that’s my choice so I’d be chucking a few straps over it, keeps me happy, keeps VOSA happy, keeps my boss happy and keeps my bank manager happy…simples
FFS, Meistre, which bit of the thread heading don’t you understand ?
Nothing to do with the ■■■■■■■ code of safe practices, the OP asked if we thought the load was safe and a great majority of experienced drivers said yes, which it is.
I am on holiday in Thailand at the minute and have some pictures of trucks and their loads and lack of roping/strapping/ chaining that’ll have you creaming yourself, if I can manage to post them on here.
I do actually feel sorry for new driver’s nowaday’s in that all they know is Vosa this, code of crap that, and not being able to be left to your own devises on what’s safe or not.
H&S is necessary but like everything else it’s been taken much too far.
Dipper_Dave:
I’m just surpised we are on page 2 and no ones got pedantic yet…
Page 3 now 
Just as a matter of interest , those bags of sand weighing in at 800kg +/-% - is it dry or wet sand when its bagged ? Because from the looks of those piccies , its been raining there ,
and i`m wondering how much moisture will have been absorbed ? and what the %ge of weight increase might be now the load is wet ■■ 
Is this DCPC talking? A few years ago no one would have batted an eye at that load. I used to work at a place where flat loads went out like that all the time no problem. People need to understand the load, all this strap every pallet stuff has gone mental. The OP I take it your either young, new, inexperienced. Why post this as an unsafe load? Even now after nearly 20 years as a Class 1 driver, if I’m not sure, I’ll ask the guy that’s loading how it’s secured normally.
Brucewillis:
Is this DCPC talking? A few years ago no one would have batted an eye at that load. I used to work at a place where flat loads went out like that all the time no problem. People need to understand the load, all this strap every pallet stuff has gone mental. The OP I take it your either young, new, inexperienced. Why post this as an unsafe load? Even now after nearly 20 years as a Class 1 driver, if I’m not sure, I’ll ask the guy that’s loading how it’s secured normally.
1 No
2 No
3 No
I used to load fertilizer in bags, in a curtainsider, once loaded then move to strap them down.
Although these where for export.
Did it once and a bag slid as i moved truck 100 yards forward 
And wanted to see opinions on this.
My present job loading up to 20 pallets 6 collections a day. no straps at all. some pallets not shrink-wrapped although they are at head board.
trux:
Dipper_Dave:
I’m just surpised we are on page 2 and no ones got pedantic yet…Page 3 now
Just as a matter of interest , those bags of sand weighing in at 800kg +/-% - is it dry or wet sand when it
s bagged ? Because from the looks of those piccies , its been raining there ,
and i`m wondering how much moisture will have been absorbed ? and what the %ge of weight increase might be now the load is wet ■■
can be both, can be sharp sand, builders sand, play pit sand, beach sand, kiln dried sand(if in tote bags has too be coverd if on flat trailer, wouldnt be that much i would suspect
Trux, whether it is wet or dry when bagged, depends entirely on the weather that day. But it doesn’t absorb anything much on its way and every bagging place I have been to has a weigh bridge, so you could check it if you were worried about if you needed to have a dump before you left
I’m not saying that they don’t get any heavier obviously, but the bags let moisture out too. As it was 3 pages ago, safe as houses, and well worth tug.
I would be far more wary hauling a load of little palletised bags because they can be VERY lively depending on what is in them.
Used to do this kind of work years ago, if the bags have been sitting around in the yard for a while in the winter they will soak up water when it rains, one chap i used to work with took his load over the weighbridge and he was about 2 tons over after a long stint of really heavy rain. As for load safety? yes i’d quite happily have taken it on the road (and have done with similar loads in the past with no problems) but not now with vosa pulling anything that they THINK is unsafe it’s not worth the hassle. But putting ratchet straps straight over a bag of sand is pointless, go half and they will be loose as the sand settles. Just one of the many reasons why i now only ever pull a bulker
Eeh, you can always rely on any thread about load security to generate much heat and light. If this could be harnessed, we’d never need to build another power station. Anyway, in a spirit of education, I offer the following quote, taken off the DVSA website (“Moving On”, 24 April 2014):
Load security has been a hot topic over the past 12 months, mostly because once we started taking a closer look at this during our roadside enforcement checks, it became clear that this was a much larger issue — due to the variety of vehicles, loads, load positioning, securing devices and interpretations of what constitutes a secure load — than we first expected.
I think this means, “We thought we knew what we were talking about, but then found out we didn’t”.
A bag of soft, plastering or sharp sand can take on as much as 100kg of water. Bags are sold as bulk, and not by weight and are filled to a maximum of 850kg. This is to fall within the scope of 1000kg when wet, and to comply with the lifting certificate stitched to the single use bag.
I can see both side of the argument regarding safety, those that recognise that the likelyhood of them shifting is extremely low, and those that understand the need under current guidelines that we must secure items to the deck. I do agree that DCPC has had a lot to do with the ongoing rush to secure everything. I work for a company that was loathe to put its hand in its pocket to buy equipment. Now we get new ratchet straps and lifting slings issued every six months, or when we need them.
We have high dropside vehicles on builders merchant work, and where we only used to strap anything that came above the side, now we have to abide by company policy to secure every item regardless of height. It is a pain in the 'arris, but wedged as we are between two regular VOSA checkpoints, I will happily follow such guidelines and company policy in an effort to pay my mortgage.
F-reds:
I’m sorry, Hanson, you have seen a load like that come through curtains■■?
Didn’t mean I had seen that type. Of load come thru but many others flat trailers drive different for me I think they are more stable unless you are chucking it around every bend and island I would take that anywhere and it wouldn’t bother me would bother vosa because after all theses they have decided there needs to be more restraints
Bags are sold as bulk, and not by weight and are filled to a maximum of 850kg. This is to fall within the scope of 1000kg when wet, and to comply with the lifting certificate stitched to the single use bag.
That might be what they tell you but that’s not true. The bags have a safety factor of 5:1 and always have done. They used to carry 1000kgs with the same certificates.
The reason why there is less in them is purely and simply because the builders and landscapers that purchase the bags don’t want to pay the tonnage rate for a tonne. By this I mean for some reason because they used to be able to by 1000kgs of sand for £35+vat in the nineties they would rather pay £35+vat for 850kgs than the increased price of £41.17+vat.
It’s all psychological. We used run a “promotion” at my old gaff. Buy 3 bulk bags get a 4th free. Whereas if you were trade and purchased a bulk bag you got a discount. If you got 4 discounted bags you spent about £4 less in total. Guess which way the builders bought their bags. “Still doing buy 3 get one free??” I could never understand it. Even after you explained it to them 
Left hand down!:
You can tell straight away who the old hands are and who the know-it-all ‘born expert’ pups are on this thread. There’s nothing wrong with the security of that load but the born experts would be straight on the phone to the cops/vosa about it.Sign of the times.
How wrong you are,it seems on some threads there are drivers who know everything ,done everything and are always ready to get there view across no matter what tone they write it in.Would bet a lot of them are in there 30s,a long way to go yet.Started driving in 64 and my abiding view on load security was,PIECE OF MIND.Over the years many trailers I pulled had been loaded,sheeted and roped by someone else.If i thought it needed more ropes(no straps)or more chains so that I could drive with complete confidence then that is what I would do.When on trunk I would (as did my mates)do these extra ropes/chains to have no worries about Will it Wont be alright especially if it was at night when you cannot see what could be happening to your load. PIECE OF MIND NO, NO WORRIES AND CONFIDENCE .Say what you will but the load in question ,especially the bag second from back I would not be happy with.
Saaamon:
As long as the bags are tight against each other and something like sand it’s ok, although personally I’d chuck a rope over them for belts and braces.
So its ok but you’d
personally I’d chuck a rope over them for belts and braces
make your mind up its good or not …
We always fly’d ours then roped between making it safe, seed can be just as bad any liquid.
Funny how some on here say Yeah safe as houses and in the next breath state they would just throw a few straps over just to make sure or keep Vosa happy what utter ball ■■■■ if you were that confident you would just go and take case with vosa if and when it happens ,
and you know you’ll lose as the load or loose container is being held in place purely by its own weight which is deemed Insecure no matter what you think or say just because you’ve never lost a load or had it shift.
You’ve just been lucky …