Route-Choice: Do Truckers Care About Saving Time or Money?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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RobBain:
Hi WTM - entirely reasonable questions. Answers below:

1-Why are you asking?
Understanding how people make decisions (eg. how, where and when to travel) is key for transport modelling and forecasting - two of my main research interest areas.

2-Are you doing research on behalf of a third party, either governmental or corporate?
No. I’m doing this entirely by and for myself. This is just a small part of a broader research effort.

3-Are you looking to prove or debunk some theory/project?
Not really - but it might end-up that way. At present, many people think that route-choice is straightforward and simple to understand. Some of the answers given above clearly suggest otherwise.

4-Are you receiving funding for this research?
No.

(question for mods: Does the note to media at the bottom of this page also apply to academia?)

[/quote]
Thanks for the individual reply, and fair play to you for replying clearly to each question and not being evasive.

Drivers are a much maligned group in the eyes of the public at large, and while it’s fair to say that there are a number of cab inhabitants with IQ’s so low that they need watering, it’s also true that there are a lot of highly talented and capable people behind the wheels. To ignore such a resource would be folly indeed, and yet that’s exactly what happens on a daily basis up and down the land.

Having looked at some of your past papers I admit being curious what direction you are taking with your broader research project.

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RobBain:
Hi - I’m Rob from the University of Leeds. I have a quick question for truck drivers (I’m posting separately to the owner’s forum). I have the moderator’s permission to ask my research question. It’s about how you make route choices.

Given the option, do you care more about saving time or saving money (eg. operating costs)? You may say it’s 100% about saving time, or 75% time and 25% costs. Please tell me which is more important to you (and why).

If your answer is, ‘it depends’ - please tell me what it depends on. All answers treated anonymously and in strictest confidence.

If you want to reply to me off-list, my email is: R.S.Bain@leeds.ac.uk.

Many thanks,

Rob
engineering.leeds.ac.uk/staff/5 … obert_Bain

Working in Scotland we probably have less choices on which route we follow. I can’t see many choosing to drive to Inverness from Glasgow via Loch Ness rather than the A9.

Where there are choices Oban for example from Bellshill (via Loch Lomond or via Stirling) to Crianlarich I’d go the easiest route which is just via Stirling. Going via Loch Lomand is a sod with lots of stone walls and either a loopy tour bus or logger drivers to contend with so its the Stirling route for me though could come back empty via Lomond. A lot goes into knowing the peak traffic spots and your most likely easier route to go.

In terms of saving money well I don’t accelerate like Lewis Hamilton. Many a time I see truck drivers hammering past me going through Dundee on the A90 because they obviously like to rev the testicles off their truck, but I often catch them up leaving Dundee so what’s the point.

I treat the truck as if I own it on the basis if you look after it, it’ll probably look after you - so why abuse it, though as an agency driver it clearly isn’t an approach shared by everyone.

I drove an 18 plate Actros last week for M+H and it was a wreck. God knows why drivers treat kit like that.

So i choose the route that’s easiest for me taking into account congestion, journey time, road type and quite important the location of facilities for a stop, which is quite an important consideration. Though I do take grub with me I like to stop for a hot drink and meal sometimes and if I wanted to go camping on an expedition I would have joined up with Rannolph Fiennes.

Shame you are not dong your study on the decline and lack of decent roadside facilities. More important than route choices imo which are often obvious in most cases. I mean if we are doing a change over at Lymm Services from Bellshill which route other than the M74/M6 are you going to go?

Best of luck.

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Surprised so many drivers saying they don’t care about fuel use. Does this mean the companies don’t care either? Hard to believe.

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All other things staying equal, id course they would care about fuel. But as illustrated by many examples, all other things don’t stay equal. Fuel use can be traded off against time. Sometimes saving twenty minutes means nothing. But if it means an earlier boat then half a day can be gained. Picking up a pallet just before a company closes may mean a much earlier start (and finish) the next day.
By taking a longer route I could improve my mpg figures, but actually burn more.

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Munchkin:
Surprised so many drivers saying they don’t care about fuel use. Does this mean the companies don’t care either? Hard to believe.

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I think the person responsible for transport costs in a company worth working for cares a great deal.
Some drivers who are lucky enough to work for good employers also care a great deal, in any yard you’ll find them but they are increasingly unlikely to be in the majority.
Unfortunately as always those who care or try to do the job right will have to contend with those who couldn’t give a monkeys, hence just one of the reasons for dumbing the job down to one size fits all.

The problem is that so few people realise that the number 1 item in control of fuel usage is the driver’s right foot, which if coupled to a working brain and a set of eyes both of which are working together and capable of looking as far ahead forward planning and applying that to vehicle progress, makes the world of difference to fuel usage.

This includes using routes that are easy on the vehicle, avoiding steep hills and junctions requiring stopping or almost stopping whenever possible…these choices can’t really be made by a planner no matter how sophisticated his electronic aids unless he’s been a driver who knows and was one who knew how to get the best from the vehicle anyway, these are decisions that are coming to light in this very thread and can only be left to the driver, assuming the driver is in the least interested.

I wonder how many have taken the trouble to see and appreciate the instant fuel figures on the board display most modern vehicles have in the menu, have a look its quite an eye opener.
In top gear the typical fully loaded artic pulling under full power be doing around 3.9mpg or less, drop one gear and that is likely to drop to 3.1mpg instantly, same progress same speed on that hill, when you get down to gears 7/8 in a typical 12 speed you will be down to around 2/2.5 mpg or less under full power, but watch and see what the consumption is in gears 3 to 7 :open_mouth:

Also, work this it out for yourselves how to do it on your vehicle’s instant fuel calculator, do a little experiment, zero your trip computer and then accelerate to limiter speed at maximum weight and see just how much fuel that has consumed, the quantity is shocking…note not all trip consumption calculators will play bal
because the time from zeroing hasn’t been long enough.

But all this knowledge doesn’t guarantee better fuel figures, which also rely on making use of terrain and existing vehicle momentum, in other words the driver’s right foot.
CC is mooted as the be all and end all of fuel economy, but it isn’t as clear cut as that, CC on its own is a blunt instrument, it needs a human to work with it, to know when to use it and when not.

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^^^^^^
Yep…If a driver IS a driver, (and not an idiot and/or a car driver with a blagged Class 1 ), fuel economy just comes natural to him second nature like many things…such as noticing bridges etc.

Despite what I’ve already said about my reap/sow attitude towards the firm I work for, I’m always in the top 5,.and very often in the top 3 of the leader board for fuel economy, if I was getting some kind of bonus or something I would actually start ‘‘trying’’.

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I run from the same places every day and after about a month on the job i found the smoothest route depending on the time, its not which is fastest or cheapest for me but rather whats more comfortable. As said earlier, i’d rather use cruise control down a motorway than constant stop/starting and lots of turning.

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Munchkin:
Surprised so many drivers saying they don’t care about fuel use. Does this mean the companies don’t care either? Hard to believe.

The two things go hand in hand though. If you’re choosing an easier, faster route it is likely to save you fuel even though it is longer. For example you can really wallop through some diesel taking Woodhead or Snake Pass route over the Pennines from say Salford to Barnsley/Sheffield compared to going the M62 even though the M62 is longer distance wise.

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Juddian:
In top gear the typical fully loaded artic pulling under full power be doing around 3.9mpg or less, drop one gear and that is likely to drop to 3.1mpg instantly, same progress same speed on that hill, when you get down to gears 7/8 in a typical 12 speed you will be down to around 2/2.5 mpg or less under full power, but watch and see what the consumption is in gears 3 to 7 :open_mouth:

I think you’re confusing ‘under full load’ with ‘under full power’.The right gear to provide peak torque is what you’re looking for to get the best journey time v fuel consumption when the engine is under full load.Assuming that is the guvnor has specced the thing with the most advantageous torque spec on the basis that he doesn’t often if ever want it running up to full power and with enough torque not to need to.

Also bearing in mind that there would be no point in ‘dropping’ a gear running at full ( peak ) power because increasing the revs at that point would actually create less power and just blow loads of unburnt fuel out of the exhaust.Because the turbo is only designed to work at its best over a tightly controlled engine speed range and the time needed for the fuel to ignite and combust properly.In the case of diesels the aim being to produce as much power as possible at the lowest possible engine speed which is just another way of saying it’s all about torque.Which all fits in with your observations.

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Munchkin:
Surprised so many drivers saying they don’t care about fuel use. Does this mean the companies don’t care either? Hard to believe.

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It’s probably because other factors which drivers do care about, implicitly affect fuel use.

Primarily, most drivers care about time and effort. Clearly, driving longer tends to consume fuel, and few working drivers want to spend more time moving than necessary. The sort of road that subjectively makes driving harder work, also tends to consume fuel.

Even on the days when you fancy something more mentally challenging, the challenging route is often slightly shorter, so it works out even on saved time and possibly saved fuel.

So any reasonable efficiency on time and effort is usually reasonably efficient on fuel.

As an aside, I’ve never set out to drive in a fuel efficient fashion. I tend not to hammer about simply because I want things to stay still on the dashboard, don’t want to be knocked about by sloshing nor having to get in the back to reset the load, and don’t want the mental effort of changing speed all the time.

But again, implicitly, conservation of effort and personal comfort tends to conserve fuel, and whenever I’ve been in a firm that are paying attention to measuring fuel use, I seem to fall at the better end of the scale.

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Gone have the days of the driver thinking for themselves, planners and TM’s have pre-planned the route with the use of route planning programs Point A to Point B and any drops in between, they know each vehicles route and quick to jump on the phone ( handsfree ) to inform the driver he’s off route. This is suppose to be the most cost effective solution for companies.
What it doesn’t take into consideration is the excessive fuel used for being stood in peak time traffic, climbing hills fully loaded, stop start at junctions and roundabouts because the planning team are always correct.

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Thankfully, Grumpy Dad, there are still some operations where that is not the case and is very unlikely to become so, i for one could not and will not work under those conditions and i have no doubt they in turn wouldn’t want people like me either, which suits us both then :sunglasses:

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Grumpy Dad:
Gone have the days of the driver thinking for themselves, planners and TM’s have pre-planned the route with the use of route planning programs Point A to Point B and any drops in between, they know each vehicles route and quick to jump on the phone ( handsfree ) to inform the driver he’s off route.

:open_mouth: Tell you what mate, seriously, there’s no way in hell I would (or could) put up with all that crap…How tf was all that allowed to happen in the first place,.without being quickly nipped in the bud with a ‘‘■■■■ off, there’s a good reason for deviating, so leave me alone to do my job’’ :imp:

If somebody is watching you to that extent, they have either nothing better to do in their job, or in a non job.watching somebody else do their job.

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Juddian:
Thankfully, Grumpy Dad, there are still some operations where that is not the case and is very unlikely to become so, i for one could not and will not work under those conditions and i have no doubt they in turn wouldn’t want people like me either, which suits us both then :sunglasses:

I’m out of it mate, today was the first time I’ve been in the saddle for a month ( a favour for a mate ) and that ended by leaving me questioning myself.
I worked for small family run companies on European and was always left to decide what was best going down the road, as long as I informed them my plan of action and if a delivery or collection needed to be rescheduled.

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Grumpy Dad:
Gone have the days of the driver thinking for themselves, planners and TM’s have pre-planned the route with the use of route planning programs Point A to Point B and any drops in between, they know each vehicles route and quick to jump on the phone ( handsfree ) to inform the driver he’s off route.

This isn’t my experience,at all.

56

Tell a lie…some ■■■■ once phoned to tell me my fleet score was down,when I was on percentage work.
I emptied my cab,the following Friday.

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commonrail:
Tell a lie…some ■■■■ once phoned to tell me my fleet score was down,when I was on percentage work.
I emptied my cab,the following Friday.

After 13 years or so I packed in doing European work, and got a job doing U.K, lasted a week emptied my gear out and quit driving.

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Really.
I’d been uk tramping about the same length of time…and was largely left to my own devices.

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My statement about planners and tms’s may have been a little harsh on the smaller family run companies, it was aimed at the larger companies, Stobarts etc. The smaller firms are dead mans shoes whereas the larger companies are full of no questions asked drivers and the planners etc run the show.

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I’m not interested in large companies,either.