Franlais: Your question reflects my question entirely! I think the ‘bottle’ sheet was a particular kind of fly sheet. The ERF photo shows a fly sheet secured by straps or elastics rather than being roped over (which for most of us was a no-no). I actually did some work out of United Glass with B-series ERFs and I do remember an ‘Aladin’ moment on a windy day in Sheerness when the forklift driver had placed the fly (or bottle) sheet atop my 16ft high load in high winds. I unfurled the sheet and the wind lifted it. I quickly stepped off the sheet at the last second, only to see it sail across the yard. I could, of course, have been killed. I suppose that is why drivers are no longer permitted to set foot to the platform of a flatbed trailer. The picture below of one of the sheets I carried appears to show a much shallower fly (or bottle).
The fly sheets we had were the narrower type shown on he Robson truck.
We started doing bottles out of Barnsley and our older canvas sheets were too small, so we had to the fly over one side and run the main sheets over the top asymmetrically.
So, they bought some bigger “bottle sheets” to cover the high bottle loads.
I would call a big full sheet a bottle sheet.
The yellow sheet? I wouldn’t quite know how to call it, but I would say it is too wide to be a true fly sheet.
A fly is to cover the joints , rope rubs, etc, in other sheets.
We used old flys on low loads, and drums etc, but although we would rope over those, we avoided roping over good fly sheets.
Our flys had long sheet ties on them, but not the ropes and reinforced bans that appear to be on the Robson truck.
We did have one special sheet which was like a wide fly sheet but maybe not quite as wide as the yellow on.
Special for one job only…cream cakes…honest!
It was for high quality cakes that had been made for a “well known retailer” but might have had slight flaws, so were sent to market retailers and couldn’t go in the bakery’s own trucks. Had to spread the sheet as it was loaded: no walking on top.
Shortly later we got some of them new tautliner things…
Ah yes! The tautliner things - and here’s me with another B-series ERF with one of those 16ft high taughtliner things on United Glass work
How many of today drivers could / would do that ? then have to drive it afterwards lol Very few could drive it empty,
How could they do it if they aint been shown?
You are comparing apples with oranges mate.
In those days you had to do it, these days you dont (thank Christ).
It’s like crash or constant mesh boxes, almost none of todays drivers could find their way around an 18spd Fuller, or use a ‘It’s there somewhere’ Spicer, not because of incompetence, more of why tf would they bother to try ?
You need to stop knocking ‘todays drivers’ in your posts mate, amongst the abundance of incompetent f/wits (who are noticed more) there are a lot of good lads out there (who are noticed less) who are competent drivers.
I’m a ‘today’s driver’ but I was also brought up on 2 30x20s roped up under a fly, chains and dwangs, and dog rough Euro Tilts, …also boxes from David Browns to ZF’s.
Would I want to go back to any of that type of cack ?
Would I ■■■■.
i see we have drifted into bottle and fly territory again, and why not, but as I have said before, to the amazement and distress of a certain Cumbrian ex-haulier, in my 39 years (from age 21 to retirement at 60) driving career handling every kind of sector with the sole exceptions of cars and liquids, I have never ever been offered, insisted on, or bought such a thing as a fly sheet without ever having a claim or a rejection for a wet load.
I have never hauled bottles, to the best of my memory, but I have had plenty of high and dangerous loads. double stacked pallets at Metal Box (very wobbly to stand on sheet spreading), cartoned Raleigh bikes handballed onto 9 foot wide special pallets requiring 2 40 foot sheets to cover and only lifted to the shoulder when rolled by standing on end and allowed to fall onto the shoulder when in a complete crouch.
I haven’t had time to watch your video, SDU, I will, but very busy today and expecting the frst of 4 health visitors to help my wife in exactly 13 minutes, but to answer your question
What sort of photos are you looking for?
specifically examples of the British way of roping and sheeting with traditional dolly hitches and, in particular, crosses front and back and, in even more particular, Dundee or Scotch crosses. You would not believe how hard it is to find them over multiple threads on this subject on here. I came up with one, and only one so far and await comments from the other side of the Atlantic. Puzzlement, probably.
It has attracted 8 ‘Likes’ so far, haven’t had time to read comments as yet.
That is a very neat load shown.
Looks like a very rigid load such as crates or similar.
Sheets nice and tight, all the excess tucked up, with no pockets for rain to pool in.
Neat dollies with ears, not too big nor too small, and lined up evenly.
No fly sheet, but since we don’t know what the load is, we don’t know one is needed, so no minus marks.
There is an issue there that securing a sheet over a rigid load, then tensioning it with ropes can put too much load on the corners which will rip out tie-eyes or strain /rip the fabric, but that is the nature of the beast, sheets are prone to such wear’n’tear. An observation, not a criticism of that job.
Absolutely so. More to do with technique, and learning the knack, rather than brute force. Just like moving quarter-ton 45gal barrels around by hand.
And the more recently learned way to lift a pallet truck onto a trailer by hand.
At Uig Ferry Port Isle of Skye 2017 heading for the Outer Hebrides the Daf a shunting wagon on off the boat.
Oily
Looks a perfectly competent, workmanlike, job.
Putting goods on top of sheets, isn’t ideal practice, but is a practical real-world, work around.
One sheet? That would be too heavy for one person I’d have thought.
Maybe not as heavy as those huge Zanussi sheets, but still too much for most of us, even when younger.
Looks like a joined rope on the back cross?
Perfectly good. Use all the rope you have rather than tie off the ends all the time.
And spreader dollies correctly used along the side, so that the rope runs vertically, in the correct place, not just where the hook happens to be.
“Putting goods on top of sheets, isn’t ideal practice,”
With regard to island ferries around Scotland and considering cost it absolutely is good practice to maximise the load, no doubt the sheet will have protection if needed.
This pic arriving Lochmaddy Isle of North Uist from the mainland.
Oily
I am not saying you / we want to go back to the 60s / 70s but for sure they were the better days, If a driver turned up for a job back then you knew he could drive the F-----G thing,
Would you believe we had some Knob Head turn up for a job ?
but he was going to do a refresher course because he had not driven Artics for 10 yrs, ( that was thoughtful of him ) on doing some checks we found out he was doing a 5 day course for class one test booked for the following Friday ?
We had a call Friday evening saying when could he start ? when he was told to go and get F----d ? for some reason he was not too pleased, not sure why ffs. We have other Clowns turn up looking for a job, ( I can only drive an Auto ) ok we have a semi auto do you want to have a go ? One look in the cab it’s no thanks , it`s a S/A with twin splitter, Then you get what about them DAFs you have lol,
I know Rob you would not like them lol , Polished Alloys / Light Bars / Spotlights / Cow Catchers / Air Horns / Fridges / Microwaves / even a Television so you can watch ■■■■ lol.
Would you believe it, all the DAFs are Autos now , The reason we employ Steerwheel Attendants all the Real Men have or about to retire.
In the 80s I had a DAF WBM 600S with a 13 speed Fuller in it at the time, the G/F could drive better than most men lol.
Any how Rob keep bolloxing on , You know you like it lol
Speaking of heavy sheets . Did any of you lads ever pull Lancashire flats out of Garston dock for Irish Sea Ferries ? … probably not .
Bloody great one size fits all PVC abortions that would have given even Geoff Capes a bleed’n hernia .
I wouldn’t have minded half as much , but 99% of the backloads were less than headboard height steel section out of the Midlands destined for Crown Controls at Galway .
Scratching about for bits of scrap timber to use as skids , then discovering that half of the rope hooks were missing from the flat .
Oh ! Happy days …. and all for tuppence a week . Happy days my friggin’ backside .
Yes Eddie, me. Later 30 foots with twistlock corners (not much good if you only had 20 and 40 foot pins) but always loaded with spuds roped and sheeted. A mate of mine just secured one to the trailer by ropes and lost it on the first corner, it landed flat and skidded across the road taking out a bollard island as it did so.
But not a spud was lost, the load with its sheets and ropes remaining exactly as it was before, never moved.
@Oily. Those McLeod pics are what I was looking for for the Yank site, but still not seen a picture of a Scotch cross to show them.
I’ve forgotten how to put photos on here , ( most probably because I very rarely post any ) . Perhaps Franglais would be good enough to remind me . Sorry if I’m being a nuisance .
Drag and drop is your friend, but someone else will advise you correctly. To me it is the same procedure as it was under the old system.
BTW the incident which I mentioned above was with a Northern Ireland Trailers flat, not a Lancashire flat. I am amazed that they were permitted, simply the flat body removed from a chassis and resting on 2 lengthwise beams. Then held on only by some expert roping. Unbelievable.
Irish Sea was out of my home area. We did Zanussi loads.
White goods loaded onto a flat trailer, in Euroland, corner boards and straps to secure the load then one plastic sheet to cover the lot.
The haulier would find their own backload then return the empty flat, normally for stacking and shipping back empty.
That sheet would cover bottles etc, but was an absolute cow to handle, and a forklift was needed in my experience. We normally took our sheets so the big sheet could be rolled and ignored for most back loads.
On the reply box that you type into, click on the grey “upload” icon on the top. The flat with an upwards arrow. From there it behaves similarly to the old site.
@Alpine.
Ok firstly I was a young kid at school in the 60s, my first driving job was as a mere lad in 79 on a Ford Transit pick up…tramping on it would ya believe.
As for the guys (or clowns as you say) who can not drive manuals…
How is that their fault if they have never been shown at training?
Ok they drive cars, but with a hell of a lot fewer gears, and he would not know what a splltter is without being taught…that was my point.
The guy with no artic experience for last 10 years, …
He was maybe confident he could still handle an artic despite that, but took the initiative to take a refresher to cover his arse, hardly a knob head imo, at worst he was blagging it, but I can say nothing I have blagged things most of my life, making on I have done stuff before when I aint, then jumping in the deep end on it, it shows confidence and initiative I reck.
In fact in 98 the lad I used to go away with in his truck as a lad, re.started, he came.with me for a week to get back in the way of things after being out of the job for 10 years, it was like riding a bike he had not lost it.
As for the blinged up motors,.wrong about me on that as well, I love em,.I’ve driven them…but only if all the cack is paid for by the firm, as it is THEIR motor not mine, I prefer to spend cash on my OWN stuff.
Like I said mate you are right to a point there are a lot of clowns, knob heads and car drivers pretending to be truckers, but there are also a hell of a lot of good lads who can drive…not to mention girls also.
Thanks for the replies fellas . Here’s the photo that I intended to post before I realised I’d forgotten how to do it .
It’s a pretty poor shot of an m/t Lancashire flat belonging to Irish Sea Ferries taken fifty years ago . One of the lifting eyes can be seen .
From memory , the trailer was a 33 footer with twist locks set at 30 feet , but this piece of garbage doesn’t appear to be equipped with the necessary technology to take advantage of that fact , as witnessed by the chain across the back holding it onto the trailer .
Occasionally you might get lucky and wind up with a relatively new shiny orange one with ISO boxes on the corners , but that would be the exception to the rule .
I must have got lucky on this particular day as this one appears to have a couple of rope hooks still attached .
Oh ! and another thing that I forgot to mention is the fact that quite often when you’d tipped the Irish load , it became obvious that a substantial number of boards in the bed of the flat were either rotten , broken or missing altogether . So it paid to carry a comprehensive selection of carpentry tools in the cab , hammer , saw , nails etc , along with all the other junk , such as jack , wheelbrace , ropes , chains , spare bulbs and lenses etc.etc.etc. … Ad bloody infinitum .
I’ve been turned away from a number of backloading sites due to the condition of the floors on some of these poxy flats .
And I’ve witnessed one or two prima Donna’s over the years refuse to take a motor out because the radio was crackling ffs .
But it was the nature of the job I suppose , and I expect most of us have been there at some time or another … but with hindsight , we must have been bloody barking !