ERF:
The 6 wheeler above is definitely a 5MW day cab. The W does not denote a sleeper cab (where did that come from??).
We have been using the “V=day, W=sleeper” rule on this forum since the initial confusion.
ERF:
The MV and MW are two entirely different cab structures, the MW being wider and taller as John says in his post. Hardly any panels are interchangeable. Note the gap from wheelarch up to the body swage line - it’s about 5 inches on an MW, but there is hardly any gap on an MV.
Compare these two with any number of other photos, and you may conclude that the left one is a 4MW, and the right one is a 5MW. It is clear that the cabs are identical apart from axle position. Even the door is carried over.
The CM article from the Earls Court Show describes the narrow day cab, with the set-forward axle, as an MV. I assume that the narrow cab, with the set-back axle and the long door, to be the 3MV. Both of these are easy to spot- they lack the vented panels either side of the grille, which are fitted to the wider 4 and 5 cabs.
This is my understanding of it anyway. I would be happy to be corrected.
ERF-Continental:
ERF with all respect and awareness towards your expertise…
why did you input this important cab-information more earlier? Since more than a year we
are all strugling with details and the final answer.
It has been discussed numerous times, 3MV, 4MW, 5MW, 7MW and all derivations…
My friend, I don’t get time to visit this site on a regular basis I’m afraid.
Many of the original ERF works photos that I have posted on Flickr over the years have been ‘used’ on threads including those on the MW, and each one carries an accurate caption on that site.
It is highly unlikely that there is anyone within the active club you mention that could accurately moderate this thread in the way you suggest. From what I have briefly read, Robert’s (and you own) posts appear excellent 99.9% of the time, so you are both perhaps better placed than anyone.
ERF:
The 6 wheeler above is definitely a 5MW day cab. The W does not denote a sleeper cab (where did that come from??).
We have been using the “V=day, W=sleeper” rule on this forum since the initial confusion.
ERF:
The MV and MW are two entirely different cab structures, the MW being wider and taller as John says in his post. Hardly any panels are interchangeable. Note the gap from wheelarch up to the body swage line - it’s about 5 inches on an MW, but there is hardly any gap on an MV.
0
Compare these two with any number of other photos, and you may conclude that the left one is a 4MW, and the right one is a 5MW. It is clear that the cabs are identical apart from axle position. Even the door is carried over…
The one on the left is a 4MW, the right one is a 3MW.
The doors are the same pressing as you say, but the devil is in the detail.
The outer panel (with the side window) behind the door lock pillar is different between the 3MW and 4/5MW, and the floor panel inside.
The 3MW had Lucas 5-3/4" headlamps as per the early LV, the 4 & 5MW had 7" headlamps as per the late LV cab.
The 3MW draws it’s engine air from under the bunk, the 4 & 5MW usually had air stacks up inside the bunk space inside the cab, and drew air through grilles in the upper back panel - although this was not always the case as it could be ordered with external stacks, or no raised air intake at all.
The 4 & 5MW had what was described as ‘much improved’ sound deadening over its 3MW predecessor.
ERF:
The one on the left is a 4MW, the right one is a 3MW.
The doors are the same pressing as you say, but the devil is in the detail.
The outer panel (with the side window) behind the door lock pillar is different between the 3MW and 4/5MW, and the floor panel inside.
The 3MW had Lucas 5-3/4" headlamps as per the early LV, the 4 & 5MW had 7" headlamps as per the late LV cab.
The 3MW draws it’s engine air from under the bunk, the 4 & 5MW usually had air stacks up inside the bunk space inside the cab, and drew air through grilles in the upper back panel - although this was not always the case as it could be ordered with external stacks, or no raised air intake at all.
The 4 & 5MW had what was described as ‘much improved’ sound deadening over its 3MW predecessor.
It’s difficult to see any difference in the rear quarter panel from those pics, so I’ll take your word for it. The headlamps seem to be the obvious difference between a 3 and a 5. If the red-and-white tractor is a 3, what is the red-cabbed 8x4 giving its trailer a piggy-back (a few posts back)- a 2MV?
@ERF…fair and nice reply as well thanks for the compliments towards the main participants over here!
Pitty that so little was secured from the time ERF left Sandbach and it’s final decline within MAN-company.
I remember the fall of DAF Trucks despite the fact that the majority of their library/archive was kept in
a more or less controlled spectrum of ‘owners’ afterwards. Luckily we can ‘rely’ on literarture and a lot of
knowledge out of experiences and lorries pictured. Would the list on chassinumbers be more secure and
detailed (engine. gearbox, configuration and cab) together with registration…it would be a genuine gem!
My profuse thanks to ERF-Peterborough, ERF-Continental, John3300 and Anorak for that illuminating set of posts this afternoon. This is most helpful and I’ve certainly learnt something new! I do share ERF-continental’s frustration about the lack of reliable information from official sources but, as ERF-Peterborough points out: it is we who will end up being the ‘experts’! It’s for precisely this reason that I ended up writing the book. As for the book, by the way: I deal only with the 7MW cab (mercifully!) so I doubt if I’ve made any ill-informed blunders on the ERF cab front! Robert
3300John:
hiya Robert…the pale green ERF with tipper trailer that looks like its the late Graham Bailey lorry PGV ///R is that a lorry shipped from
austraila or new zealand do you know…is so have we a photo of that down under
John
3300John:
hiya Just a quicky all panels on a 3-4-5- mv and mw are inter changeable erfman now there might be some spacers here and there.
Not true John, but I think I can see what you are trying to say (below)…
3300John:
you mention the first MW was built in 1970 the first 50 jordaian lorries left the uk in 1968. some of the earlier MVs was built in late1966…
Yes I know. There is a photo of one of the 1968 MW’s for Jordan (registered in the UK on a G plate) on my Flickr photostream (could someone post a copy here perhaps? It’s a beige coloured outfit). I was referring to the New Zealand MW’s and specifically those with Gardner engines. The red and white one looks to be the first export to NZ with the LXB and MW cab. Not the very first MW - although I concede that bit was not clear.
The first MV was built in 1965 by the way, and featured the slightly longer E-R-F grille letters as fitted to the late 1964 to very early 66 LV cabs (the LV/J and 2LV).
3300John:
…all the doors either long or short all was delivered to Jennings as long door along with the frames. on the mv the fronts was all glass fibre made at jennings…all the windscreens come as one piece screens we widened them and put the split in them the roofs was all the same as a big J or seddon…
we as a team of panel beaters made swapped and changed everything we made all the interior. we widened the back panel we cut the roof into 4 and changed them we made up the piece that housed the front step. so i can say all panels are interchangeable its how you change and fix them
I think we need to look at this from a different angle John!
A very good panel beater could get an LAD cab door to fit an MV, it doesn’t make them interchanagble!.
The MW cab is set 5 inches higher than the MV, and is wider, so ALL the major panels are different between the two cabs. You guys at JHJ may well have taken standard Motor Panels pressings and fettled them into the MV and MW cabs, but to say any of the major panels are interchangeable is a bit misleading in my opinion.
I have checked the master parts lists for both cabs, and the only panels I can find that interchange directly are the upper and lower centre rear panels. Everything else is different - ie NOT the same finished panel between the two cab types.
Also, the interior fibreglass dash panel and bonnet in the MV was based on the JHJ 3 and 4 LV cab (or more accurately the MV design was carried over to the 3LV and 4LV, as it was lighter and much cheaper to produce than the rather nice fully moulded lift up fibreglass bonnet in the early LV cabs). The MW had a Motor Panels flat steel dash and different engine bonnet and floor.
robert1952:
Getting back to the RHD 5MW cabs, here is an interior view of LAF, the unit in Cornwall. Robert
1
with a reminder of the exterior…
0
LAF is quite an ironic number for this lorry,
It has been offered and even advertised for sale a few times over the years, one well known collector/restorer even went so far as arranging to have a look, travelling all the way down to Cornwall to view it, only to be told they had ‘changed their minds’ when he got there!.
Not the first, and won’t be the last I’m sure.
robert1952:
Getting back to the RHD 5MW cabs, here is an interior view of LAF, the unit in Cornwall. Robert
1
with a reminder of the exterior…
0
LAF is quite an ironic number for this lorry,
It has been offered and even advertised for sale a few times over the years, one well known collector/restorer even went so far as arranging to have a look, travelling all the way down to Cornwall to view it, only to be told they had ‘changed their minds’ when he got there!.
Not the first, and won’t be the last I’m sure.
Yes! I’ve heard a couple of tales of refusals too. Let’s just hope the tin-worm doesn’t get to it before the lucky restorer does.
On another note, you mentioned pictures of the Jordanian consignment in 1968. I put several pics and some information about those on the ‘ERFs with 4MW cabs’ thread. I’ll bump it up for you. Robert
[zb]
anorak:
…what is the red-cabbed 8x4 giving its trailer a piggy-back (a few posts back)- a 2MV?
No, this is a 3MV cab.
The narrow set-back axle one is a 3MV, the wide set-back axle one is a 3MW. I understand that, but what about the 4MV- there are pictures of these about the place, and they have the wide cab.
ERF:
A 2MV would be ‘cab over axle’, rather than a ‘set back’ axle like this.
This disagrees with the CM article. It appears to describe the launch of the Motor Panels ERF at Earls Court, showing a picture of a forward-axle, narrow-cab 6x4 tractor. The text says, “The cab on the six-wheeler has been specially developed for export markets. It is called the MV…” Based on that, the set-back axle version of this narrow cab should be a 2MV?
Edit- no, because that, according to your earlier post, would be a 3MV. This tallies with other posts which have stated that there was no 2MV.
Perhaps someone could make a chart showing pictures of all the variants. We could have a proper old row about that!
