hiya on page one half way down the ERF with a trailer in a convoy PGV764R that looks like Graham Bailey,s livery…graham passed away
last year…i have nt seen that lorry at a show but seen the line of others he had…has Graham inported that lorry does anyone know■■?
it will have been well sorted because thats what gram did… if he wanted a tractor unit he,d cut down a 4 wheeler or otherwise needed
something long he d have chassis legs made long and extend a unit to a 4 wheeler…where did this lorry appear from does anyone know
please
.
There certainly is a huge gap between your ideals Carryfast, and actual reality.
The latter you sadly have absolutely no grip on.
3300John:
hiya on page one half way down the ERF with a trailer in a convoy PGV764R that looks like Graham Bailey,s livery…graham passed away
last year…i have nt seen that lorry at a show but seen the line of others he had…has Graham inported that lorry does anyone know■■?
it will have been well sorted because thats what gram did… if he wanted a tractor unit he,d cut down a 4 wheeler or otherwise needed
something long he d have chassis legs made long and extend a unit to a 4 wheeler…where did this lorry appear from does anyone know
please
I’m not sure if it was Graham’s John.
I really liked the 2LV unit he restored in dark green his early days.
This is the MW photo, just to remind us…
.
Carryfast:
ERF:
There certainly is a huge gap between your ideals Carryfast, and actual reality.
The latter you sadly have absolutely no grip on.The ‘realities’ of history suggest otherwise.
As for the topic,unlike that retrograde Gardner powered B series heap,were there any MP cabbed 5 MW’s fitted with the same ■■■■■■■ NTC/Fuller combination as the NGC ?.If so I’d obviously say that was a well engineered wagon too.By my standards obviously not yours.
There were some LHD 5MW-cabbed ERFs with NTC 335s and Fuller 9sp 'boxes about in those days CF, but remember that the 5MW cab didn’t tilt, so that would probably knock them out of the competition that you are talking about. 
Robert
Carryfast:
ERF:
There certainly is a huge gap between your ideals Carryfast, and actual reality.
The latter you sadly have absolutely no grip on.The ‘realities’ of history suggest otherwise.
As for the topic,unlike that retrograde Gardner powered B series heap,were there any MP cabbed 5 MW’s fitted with the same ■■■■■■■ NTC/Fuller combination as the NGC ?.If so I’d obviously say that was a well engineered wagon too.By my standards obviously not yours.
How would you know? You have no engineering qualifications and have never participated in the profession. That is why people object to your “arguments”: they are founded on a false premise.
.
Just reading this with interest , which model was the 320 Gardner it seems to get some stick on some threads , I thought the one I had was a great engine 100 per cent reliable pulled like a train
.
ERF:
Your bubbling enthusiasm for the Motor Panels steel cab in all it’s forms is misplaced.
It had a very short service life like most steel cabs of the era, and steel cabs from all manufacturers gave the likes of ERF (and Foden, Guy, Bedford, Ford and Leyland) a severe headache in the form of warranty claims, one factor in the MP cab being dropped entirely by ERF in 1977, although they did continue to supply pressings for the SP cab frame. I don’t know without asking for the records to be checked (which I don’t want to do at the moment - he deserves a rest) how many 7MW’s received complete new cabs in European service due to severe corrosion, but there were some. That’s why I said earlier, as an all round performer the NGC was proven to NOT be the right product, in the right place, at the right time. If it had been, sales would still prove it today.
Cabs replaced under warranty due to corrosion? I would like to see evidence of that. As you say, most of the pressed steel cabs of the day were poorly protected against rot. Even so, it usually took at least 3 years for perforation to occur.
Carryfast:
I really don’t know why I bother.
That’s the spirit!
[zb]
anorak:Carryfast:
I really don’t know why I bother.That’s the spirit!
Nice one anorak
[zb]
anorak:ERF:
…how many 7MW’s received complete new cabs in European service due to severe corrosion, but there were some…Cabs replaced under warranty due to corrosion? I would like to see evidence of that. As you say, most of the pressed steel cabs of the day were poorly protected against rot. Even so, it usually took at least 3 years for perforation to occur.
There is certainly evidence of 2 complete trimmed 7MW cabs being shipped out via CD in Belgium as ‘spare parts’, and there maybe more.
One 7MW cab shipped in 1976 is recorded as “MP liability (or words to that effect) warranty issue”, which I’m presuming was corrosion, as the chassis it was destined for was completed 32 months previously. The other 7MW cab is not recorded, so could have been for corrosion or indeed accident damage?.
If ERF thought they might potentially make strong sales with certain European customers with the NGC’s, they would go the extra mile to stand by them come what may. Don’t forget the very first NGC built had a plethora of warranty claims for cab defects in its first three years.
On the flip side, John Billows of Kettering was one of the very first importers into the UK of Volvo Trucks.
He operated a large fleet himself, established the largest Volvo truck dealership in the midlands, and I can remember him saying that Volvo actually replaced some F86 and F88 cabs over here under warranty due to corrosion, if the customer was powerful enough. Nothing was too much trouble for Volvo in those early years.
ERF:
There is certainly evidence of 2 complete trimmed 7MW cabs being shipped out via CD in Belgium as ‘spare parts’, and there maybe more.
One 7MW cab shipped in 1976 is recorded as “MP liability (or words to that effect) warranty issue”, which I’m presuming was corrosion, as the chassis it was destined for was completed 32 months previously. The other 7MW cab is not recorded, so could have been for corrosion or indeed accident damage?.If ERF thought they might potentially make strong sales with certain European customers with the NGC’s, they would go the extra mile to stand by them come what may. Don’t forget the very first NGC built had a plethora of warranty claims for cab defects in its first three years…
ERF being keen to please its new customers makes sense. The source of the faults is intriguing though, is it not? Corrosion or fatigue, or both, causing some structural or safety problem, for example around the mounting points- that would be just cause to replace the cab, without quibble!
Was the 7MWs tilting mechanism designed by ERF or MP?
Carryfast:
ERF:
There certainly is a huge gap between your ideals Carryfast, and actual reality.
The latter you sadly have absolutely no grip on.The ‘realities’ of history suggest otherwise.
How exactly?.
I have wasted too many keystrokes on this forum explaining to you the realities of history, but you choose to totally ignore me and everybody else here with decades of combined knowledge from within the industry.
ERF went on producing excellent trucks for another 40 years past the point in ‘history’ that you suggested they should have withdrawn the very strong selling Gardner option from sale. It’s just idiocy to suggest it.
ERF closed with an excellent customer base and strong order book, nothing whatsoever to do with them offering Gardner’s in the 70’s. I can’t believe I’m even writing this, it’s so far fetched it’s pathetic.
Carryfast:
…retrograde Gardner powered B series heap…
D i a t r i b e - again. Change the record. 
(now I know what these little things are for, there will be no stopping me…but I can’t seem to find the one I’m looking for…)
Carryfast:
…5 MW’s fitted with the same ■■■■■■■ NTC/Fuller combination as the NGC ?.If so I’d obviously say that was a well engineered wagon too.By my standards obviously not yours…
Common sense dictates otherwise.
For it’s task it was obviously an excellently engineered truck, by anyone’s standards.
What you can’t grasp, for reasons unknown, is that the Gardner had it’s place in production too, for it’s niche, where it did earn good money - a lot more money than a ■■■■■■■ NT in that particular role would, and that’s why they still sold in such high numbers.
[zb]
anorak:
ERF being keen to please its new customers makes sense. The source of the faults is intriguing though, is it not? Corrosion or fatigue, or both, causing some structural or safety problem, for example around the mounting points- that would be just cause to replace the cab, without quibble!Was the 7MWs tilting mechanism designed by ERF or MP?
I’m not too sure to be honest.
I would suspect it was ERF, as the tilt mechanism is slightly different to that used by Foden, so perhaps each fitted their own?.
An interesting point about early fatigue. I hadn’t thought of that, but it is very possible.
I recall the 7MW that John Simmons had was just totally and utterly rotten in the early 90’s. It was horrendous, and he said that it had been rusting away from day one in his ownership.
.
ERF:
…
I have wasted too many keystrokes on this forum explaining to you the realities of history, but you choose to totally ignore me and everybody else …
You’re wasting your time. The truth itself is offended by the Loon’s steadfast ignorance of it.
Regarding ERF’s apparent policy not to “push” the 8LXB at its European customers, I would suggest that short supply was at the root of it. Other threads on here describe situations in which GB operators were paying premiums and suffering excessive lead times to get these engines in new chassis.
Carryfast:
The fact that no one really gave much thought to anti corrosion treatment in the 1970’s doesn’t mean that an all metal cab wasn’t still the better option over plastic.Having said that my own employers were using mostly if not all aluminium panelling on steel frame body structure.Which is ‘supposedly’ one of the worst combinations.But the plenty of corrosion free surviving examples of over 40 years old would suggest it is all about paint and protection applied before/during assembly or lack of it.
Hiya “CF”,I had all the new Big j’s and Seddon 32/4’s I bought in the 70’s treated with anti corrosion spray to the “internal voids” which did keep at bay the onset of corrosion for a few years more than if I’d not carried out the treatment.However,the Atky and ERF cabs didn’t suffer the same fate and if an Atky had a slight accident we always got the driver to bring the broken bits of fibre glass back and we were able to repair the cab using the origional “parts” so how’s that for economy ■■ Oh! and I wonder if we had you “Ziebart” treated it would keep you “at bay” for a while ? 
Cheers Bewick.