Or…who was also adapting/assembling the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ THEN you can compare
.
The question does have relevance to this topic as only the dates have changed, a better on paper ERF or the equivalent Volvo or Scania.
Again we go back to the driver, comparing like with like we have many factors that make the ERF the better lorry from the introduction of the MW range and yet it did not fare too well in the market place.
The better lorries from all of the British manufacturers/assemblers had a stigma attached to them. Drivers would take an F88 or F10 over the superior equivalent from ERF, SA etc. The Ford Transcontinental, which is the closest thing to an MW/NGC achieved cult status and yet it was in my opinion, the worst of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ lorries of its time.
It was all down to the earlier reputation of the original gaffer’s wagons produced by the Brits, something the Volvo did not have hanging around its neck.
IVECO suffers today from its reputation of poor electrics and rust that came from its products in the 70s, Scania by contrast now make a mediocre lorry that is still perceived as king of the road due to the reputation of its big V8s in the 70s.
.
I also wonder about government intervention and help.
Saving BL, when it was probably past saving - even crashing those companies together.
Yet, some of the individual companies were profitable, but not only that, good companies.
Perhaps financial guarantees, earlier in the story, rather than just trying to save jobs would have been better. It seems to me that investment in Gardner, ERF, Atkinson etc would have been better than them trying to play catch up after the Swedes, Dutch and French had shoved their foot in the door.
It’s my memory that the French government invested illegally according to EU rules in their car and truck businesses. I don’t know if the Swedish and Dutch governments did.
As we have seen over and over, we were capable of making the product, but just didn’t make enough to satisfy the market, allowing others in - and once they were in, they stayed in.
John
I know that the Dutch Government were shareholders in Daf, I think it was 33% with the Van Doorne family and International Harvester also holding 33% each.
Saviem will know about the French and Regie Renault.
.
ERF:
3MWThe first 3MW cabbed ERF is chassis 17099, a model 6.6CU220, 12’7" wheelbase tipper/tractor despatched ex Sun Works on the 10th March 1969 via the dealer ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ for customer Lecoq.
The last 3MW cabbed ERF is chassis 25230, a model 6.6.CU235-SWB. Wheelbase not set, but suit 14’4". Despatched ex Sun Works on the 18th January 1973 to dealer ‘Industrial Steel & Plant’ New Zealand.
5MW
The first 5MW cabbed ERF is chassis 18714, a model 6.8.CU235 to suit 17’0" wheelbase. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 18th January 1973 to dealer ‘Cossens & Black’ New Zealand.
The last 5MW was 31490, a model MCC360.240 (64CU220) Tractor Unit despatched ex Sun Works on the 15th of April 1976 to WT ■■■■■ Haulage Ltd UK. via HLH Commercials.
7MW
The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
The second 7MW was chassis 24684, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 LWB. 15’ 9" wheelbase. Despatched the 14th August 1973. Again recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’ to the same distributor as above. Note the date - we can conclude that this was the first 7MW to actually leave the works.
The last recorded MW is chassis 31927, a model 7MW tilt cabbed model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 a 4x2 tractor unit despatched ex Sun Works on the 22nd of December 1977 to Falcon Freight, Jeddah.
Again many thanks for this fast investigation towards ERF and his archivist!
From my side some additions, not to be regarded as corrections though:
-
Brussels’ Show was organised bi-annually (as was Amsterdam’ Show) on mid-january of 1969, 1971 and 1973
and we all know the pictures of that CDB-stand. So before Lecoq’s 5MW was shipped towards CDB, there WAS a
similar but earlier vehicle for stand-purposes? -
The first 7MW “show vehicle” was delivered approx 2 months after the Brussels’ Show of 1973, and we all know
about the stand showing two 7MW’s though, the first (as shown on the cover of “ERF-CHASSIS” put in service for
Van Steenbergen. On Brussels’ Show the family showed keen interest in the NGC and gave an initial order for two. -
The second 7MW was the rigid that 'ended within the Thibaut-fleet and got registration JJ.393 on 03-07-1974
-
I assume that the (25) at CDB assembled chassis were not re-sent to Sun Works (though the colour-picture of
the blue Delcon-tractor was pictured there) for approval?
Nice developments and a lot to chew on…
What’s behind the gaps in following chassis-numbers and ship-delivery-dates?
#18714 with 18-01-1973
#22993 with 01-10-1973
#24684 with 14-08-1973
ERF-Continental:
ERF:
3MWThe first 3MW cabbed ERF is chassis 17099, a model 6.6CU220, 12’7" wheelbase tipper/tractor despatched ex Sun Works on the 10th March 1969 via the dealer ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ for customer Lecoq.
The last 3MW cabbed ERF is chassis 25230, a model 6.6.CU235-SWB. Wheelbase not set, but suit 14’4". Despatched ex Sun Works on the 18th January 1973 to dealer ‘Industrial Steel & Plant’ New Zealand.
5MW
The first 5MW cabbed ERF is chassis 18714, a model 6.8.CU235 to suit 17’0" wheelbase. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 18th January 1973 to dealer ‘Cossens & Black’ New Zealand.
The last 5MW was 31490, a model MCC360.240 (64CU220) Tractor Unit despatched ex Sun Works on the 15th of April 1976 to WT ■■■■■ Haulage Ltd UK. via HLH Commercials.
7MW
The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
The second 7MW was chassis 24684, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 LWB. 15’ 9" wheelbase. Despatched the 14th August 1973. Again recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’ to the same distributor as above. Note the date - we can conclude that this was the first 7MW to actually leave the works.
The last recorded MW is chassis 31927, a model 7MW tilt cabbed model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 a 4x2 tractor unit despatched ex Sun Works on the 22nd of December 1977 to Falcon Freight, Jeddah.
Again many thanks for this fast investigation towards ERF and his archivist!
From my side some additions, not to be regarded as corrections though:
Brussels’ Show was organised bi-annually (as was Amsterdam’ Show) on mid-january of 1969, 1971 and 1973
and we all know the pictures of that CDB-stand. So before Lecoq’s 5MW was shipped towards CDB, there WAS a
similar but earlier vehicle for stand-purposes?The first 7MW “show vehicle” was delivered approx 2 months after the Brussels’ Show of 1973, and we all know
about the stand showing two 7MW’s though, the first (as shown on the cover of “ERF-CHASSIS” put in service for
Van Steenbergen. On Brussels’ Show the family showed keen interest in the NGC and gave an initial order for two.The second 7MW was the rigid that 'ended within the Thibaut-fleet and got registration JJ.393 on 03-07-1974
I assume that the (25) at CDB assembled chassis were not re-sent to Sun Works (though the colour-picture of
the blue Delcon-tractor was pictured there) for approval?Nice developments and a lot to chew on…
Yes, you are correct, and I have actually PMed Robert about it this morning.
The build records at the moment are generating as many questions as they are answering - like the first 7MW cab recorded almost a full year after the launch of the NGC model at the Earls Court Show of September 1972.
I have asked for clarification of this, but we must remember the dates given are the dates the vehicle was released from the works, not built, so that could account for some of the discrepancy.
Also, some chassis do not have their cab type recorded, again that causes problems in searching the archive, but with the NGC he was looking for the first of that model type, not the 7MW cab, so should have found it.
We have to remember this is a manual search of a paper archive of thousands of chassis build details. Picking out individual types is a challenge, hence it taking him so many hours.
The press cuttings and books show the unveiling of the NGC 7MW to be 19th January 1973. However, I imagine that it is quite possible that chassis were completed some months earlier, before Motor Panels could get round to producing finished 7MW cabs for them.In any case, they’d need to have vehicles ready for the January show in late autumn, before the Christmas rush. Robert
robert1952:
The press cuttings and books show the unveiling of the NGC 7MW to be 19th January 1973. However, I imagine that it is quite possible that chassis were completed some months earlier, before Motor Panels could get round to producing finished 7MW cabs for them.In any case, they’d need to have vehicles ready for the January show in late autumn, before the Christmas rush. Robert
Sorry Robert - I’d got it in my mind (and here I WAS working with my memory!) that there was an NGC360 with an 8LXB engine amongst the exhibits on the ERF stand at Earls Court in 72, and that was the launch of the model. I stand corrected!. Which was the show on the 19th Jan 1973?.
ERF:
robert1952:
The press cuttings and books show the unveiling of the NGC 7MW to be 19th January 1973. However, I imagine that it is quite possible that chassis were completed some months earlier, before Motor Panels could get round to producing finished 7MW cabs for them.In any case, they’d need to have vehicles ready for the January show in late autumn, before the Christmas rush. RobertSorry Robert - I’d got it in my mind (and here I WAS working with my memory!) that there was an NGC360 with an 8LXB engine amongst the exhibits on the ERF stand at Earls Court in 72, and that was the launch of the model. I stand corrected!. Which was the show on the 19th Jan 1973?.
It was the Brussels motor show in January 1973.
A Gardner engined NGC really would throw a spanner in the works 
because, although it was offered on paper, none us has yet discovered anything other than ■■■■■■■ NTC 290s and 335s.
The Gardner-engined offering in 1972 was surely that LHD ERF with the 3MW or 5MW shown in the drawing (see LHD 5MW thread). That would have been designated MGG 360 not NGC 360, I imagine.
Here below, to refresh memories, is the 1972 Earls Court offering. Robert
robert1952:
It was the Brussels motor show in January 1973.A Gardner engined NGC really would throw a spanner in the works…The Gardner-engined offering in 1972 was surely that LHD ERF with the 3MW or 5MW shown in the drawing (see LHD 5MW thread). That would have been designated MGG 360 not NGC 360, I imagine.
Quite right, It is a failing of my memory - I did tell you earlier that I knew very little about the 7MW’s!
The NGC/NGG was my typo, that’s what you get for doing this on an iPhone between other jobs - I just had a nagging in my head I had seen a photo of a 7MW cabbed NGG360 with a Gardner 240 somewhere, but as you say, it was probably just text printed on a spec sheet somewhere.
This is probably what I was thinking of with the Gardner…
It was the new Motor Panels cab that first appeared at Earls Court in 1972, in it’s very first incarnation…
ERF:
This is probably what I was thinking of with the Gardner…1
It was the new Motor Panels cab that first appeared at Earls Court in 1972, in it’s very first incarnation…
0
Ah-ha yes! 
By the way, I posted further info about that cab in the lower picture on the ‘European 1975’ thread a while back. It was the Motor Panels Mk 5 cab billed as the ‘Transcontinental’ cab and I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that Ford bought or borrowed the name from MP for their big long-haul unit! Remember too, that the 7MW was a MP Mark 4 cab, not a Mark 5. Robert
ERF:
This is probably what I was thinking of with the Gardner…1…
It says that the 7MW was available with a Gardner. This is incorrect, is it not? The MGG380, as shown several posts previously, is the Gardner 240-engined one, and that had a 3 or 5MW cab.
[zb]
anorak:ERF:
This is probably what I was thinking of with the Gardner…1…
It says that the 7MW was available with a Gardner. This is incorrect, is it not? The MGG380, as shown several posts previously, is the Gardner 240-engined one, and that had a 3 or 5MW cab.
It is not incorrect: the brochures for the NGC 7MW at the time showed Gardner as an option. However, it appears that the optional Gardner and smaller ■■■■■■■■■ were not taken up by buyers. In the book I suggest that this was because the cheaper 5MW-cabbed A-series based units were made alongside the NGC in both right and left-hand drive. Robert
.
robert1952:
[zb]
anorak:ERF:
This is probably what I was thinking of with the Gardner…1…
It says that the 7MW was available with a Gardner. This is incorrect, is it not? The MGG380, as shown several posts previously, is the Gardner 240-engined one, and that had a 3 or 5MW cab.
It is not incorrect: the brochures for the NGC 7MW at the time showed Gardner as an option. However, it appears that the optional Gardner and smaller ■■■■■■■■■ were not taken up by buyers. In the book I suggest that this was because the cheaper 5MW-cabbed A-series based units were made alongside the NGC in both right and left-hand drive. Robert
Last year, I suggested that the 8LXB engine, with the 7MW cab on top of it, would have been a really strong competitor for the F88 et al. I did not know that it was an actual factory option. Were any built at all?