Renault Magnum

Well, they were despised occupying army, but the people there are not morons. They were first in space, they had some really great inventions, they had really good scientists and artists… Maybe it’s that I am younger and can look at them with more objective view…

Or it’s just the way I was raised… I remember my father (who is an university lecturer) was in some panel on the scientific conference. And it just happens that everyone in that panel were graduates from some postgrad studies in Leningrad. But the times were new (it was early 2000s) and they all demanded to be introduced that they were studying marketing and economy in St Petersburg…

My father looked at them, sighed and told “Well, it seems that I was the only one who was in the same time in Leningrad studying economy of socialism” :slight_smile: So as you can see in my family we don’t try to despise Russians everywhere where it is possible. There were some good things and there were bad things…

Also, another anecdote: My father is a great fan of russian traditional music. When he was jailed during martial law for his political activities it so happened that he was in the same cell with some opera singer jailed for the same. And they were spending time singing all this classic russian ballads and romances together for the other inmates… The political police could make anything out of it: how is that, this guys are jailed for fighting communism and they spend all their time singing russian songs and reading Lenin (when in jail, my father had read the whole lot of Lenin works, as there was not much choice in the library :stuck_out_tongue:)

As for the items: I had soviet made electronic alarm clock. It was the noisest one, it was very hard to switch it off and it lasted about 25 years until during some party one of my drunk visitors decided to check if it’s really indestructable - it wasn’t, but it took him really hard time to destroy it (yet I still managed to fix it, but it has some errors since and was getting frozen).

I still have my Zenit B camera, and I think it is a great classical tool.

Very good optic, and, again, it’s indestructable (i dropped it several times and it still works fine).

My father still rides his old Ukraina bicycle, he is a big guy and he already damaged two modern bikes. This one is indestructable, even the wheels had to be centered only few times and this bike has more than 25 years now…

Also there is a pump for pumping car wheels (but no the feetpump, it’s rather biccycle style one like this one:

My father keeps it of sentiment, as it was his first one when he was riding a motorbike in 50’s… Last time I’ve been in Poland I got a puncture in the bicycle and needed a pump, found only that one… Works perfect, and its made in 1952 in Soviet Union…

I have my amplituner Diora Kleopatra Hi Fi with me in Scotland, this one is actually Polish… It has some lamps and pre-conductors in it, and the sound quality is amazing, very old school plush sound, everyone who comes to my place is amazed with it…

My father has a set of good old soviet tools in his garage… He also has some new ones, but all the new ones are incomplete, as some tools snapped or broke… The soviet one still looks as brand new.

I also have my pocket folding knife, made in Soviet Union… I carry it with me when on the road… I once forgot to take it out of my backpack when had to go to the court, and they told me to throw it away, but I begged them to keep it for me… :slight_smile:

My father was driving one car for a long time, a 1970 Trabant 601. It was in our family from 1979 to 1996 and then a family friend bought it and was driving it for another 4 years or so… We went around the clock four times, so including the first owner (who drove all around Europe in it, he was allegedly even in Barcelona with this car), the car had well over 500 000 km on the clock when we sold it… Yet I remember we had a technical problem only once, but my father managed to fix it on the roadside in 20 minutes (with a little help from the wee electrical workshop in the village we happened to break down).

My uncle used to run independent garage, he said that during his over 40 years career of car mechanic, he never-ever heard about Trabant that had gearbox problems… He was also a rally driver, and he always was saying that he was racing Fiat, his friend was racing Porsche, and after every rally, they had to split car in part and fix everything. Their friend was racing on Trabant, and while they were lying under their cars, he was just changing tires and going to the next rally, so despite that he usually had much worse results, as he had much poorer car, he was still going steady with them, as when they were on one rally getting 5 points, he was able to do two rallies and get 2 or 3 points on each…

As for rallies - it’s Kamaz that won most of Paris-Dakar rallies in history, and I think Tatra was not far behind…

Tatra is the king of the off road trucks as well - look that all modern military trucks, even from leading manufacturers are very similar to this design:

So as you can see from these examples some of the Eastern Bloc products were very good quality, despite popular opinion (which was not so bad, as many of these products were crap, but we just should not tar them all with the same brush).

Carryfast:
I see you noticed the point. The Soviet idea is to make CHEAP and Reliable vehicles. Altough you are off course wrong as usual: brand new Kamaz tipper nowadays costs about 40 000 pounds:
otomoto.pl/kamaz-6540-8x4-T2391618.html
But it has to be expensive if it is to meet modern vehicle emission norms.

18 years old you can get for 2000 pounds, as this is not Australia, but European Union and here the exhaust emissions matter. Also you have to remember that they are cheap, because there is literalry milions of them (two milionth truck was build around 2009 IIRC). They are built since 1976 and the factory has capacity of nearly 100 000 trucks per year.

But every tipper company in Poland has some Kamaz or Tatra, or at least phone number to someone who has one handy. Because, believe or not, where the modern vehicles can’t go, these ones will manage no problem. You got a big builder that has to be moved but it’s too heavy for ordinary tipper? Call KAMAZ. Etc.

This is true for many other soviet vehicles… My friend’s father used to plough his field with UAZ jeep when his tractor broke down… Try this with Range Rover…

It’s not the random thing that in UK these, who really need a working horse use Land Rover Defenders and not Discoverys for example. Because they are based on the same principles as most of soviet motoring industry was: simple, strong and reliable.

I can’t not think of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s character in Red Heat.

orys:
Well, they were despised occupying army, but the people there are not morons. They were first in space, they had some really great inventions, they had really good scientists and artists… Maybe it’s that I am younger and can look at them with more objective view…

Or it’s just the way I was raised… I remember my father (who is an university lecturer) was in some panel on the scientific conference. And it just happens that everyone in that panel were graduates from some postgrad studies in Leningrad. But the times were new (it was early 2000s) and they all demanded to be introduced that they were studying marketing and economy in St Petersburg…

My father looked at them, sighed and told “Well, it seems that I was the only one who was in the same time in Leningrad studying economy of socialism” :slight_smile: So as you can see in my family we don’t try to despise Russians everywhere where it is possible. There were some good things and there were bad things…

Also, another anecdote: My father is a great fan of russian traditional music. When he was jailed during martial law for his political activities it so happened that he was in the same cell with some opera singer jailed for the same. And they were spending time singing all this classic russian ballads and romances together for the other inmates… The political police could make anything out of it: how is that, this guys are jailed for fighting communism and they spend all their time singing russian songs and reading Lenin (when in jail, my father had read the whole lot of Lenin works, as there was not much choice in the library :stuck_out_tongue:)

As for the items: I had soviet made electronic alarm clock. It was the noisest one, it was very hard to switch it off and it lasted about 25 years until during some party one of my drunk visitors decided to check if it’s really indestructable - it wasn’t, but it took him really hard time to destroy it (yet I still managed to fix it, but it has some errors since and was getting frozen).

I still have my Zenit B camera, and I think it is a great classical tool.

Very good optic, and, again, it’s indestructable (i dropped it several times and it still works fine).

My father still rides his old Ukraina bicycle, he is a big guy and he already damaged two modern bikes. This one is indestructable, even the wheels had to be centered only few times and this bike has more than 25 years now…

Also there is a pump for pumping car wheels (but no the feetpump, it’s rather biccycle style one like this one:

My father keeps it of sentiment, as it was his first one when he was riding a motorbike in 50’s… Last time I’ve been in Poland I got a puncture in the bicycle and needed a pump, found only that one… Works perfect, and its made in 1952 in Soviet Union…

I have my amplituner Diora Kleopatra Hi Fi with me in Scotland, this one is actually Polish… It has some lamps and pre-conductors in it, and the sound quality is amazing, very old school plush sound, everyone who comes to my place is amazed with it…

My father has a set of good old soviet tools in his garage… He also has some new ones, but all the new ones are incomplete, as some tools snapped or broke… The soviet one still looks as brand new.

I also have my pocket folding knife, made in Soviet Union… I carry it with me when on the road… I once forgot to take it out of my backpack when had to go to the court, and they told me to throw it away, but I begged them to keep it for me… :slight_smile:

My father was driving one car for a long time, a 1970 Trabant 601. It was in our family from 1979 to 1996 and then a family friend bought it and was driving it for another 4 years or so… We went around the clock four times, so including the first owner (who drove all around Europe in it, he was allegedly even in Barcelona with this car), the car had well over 500 000 km on the clock when we sold it… Yet I remember we had a technical problem only once, but my father managed to fix it on the roadside in 20 minutes (with a little help from the wee electrical workshop in the village we happened to break down).

My uncle used to run independent garage, he said that during his over 40 years career of car mechanic, he never-ever heard about Trabant that had gearbox problems… He was also a rally driver, and he always was saying that he was racing Fiat, his friend was racing Porsche, and after every rally, they had to split car in part and fix everything.

Carryfast:
I see you noticed the point. The Soviet idea is to make CHEAP and Reliable vehicles. Altough you are off course wrong as usual: brand new Kamaz tipper nowadays costs about 40 000 pounds:
otomoto.pl/kamaz-6540-8x4-T2391618.html
But it has to be expensive if it is to meet modern vehicle emission norms.

18 years old you can get for 2000 pounds, as this is not Australia, but European Union and here the exhaust emissions matter. Also you have to remember that they are cheap, because there is literalry milions of them (two milionth truck was build around 2009 IIRC). They are built since 1976 and the factory has capacity of nearly 100 000 trucks per year.

But every tipper company in Poland has some Kamaz or Tatra, or at least phone number to someone who has one handy. Because, believe or not, where the modern vehicles can’t go, these ones will manage no problem. You got a big builder that has to be moved but it’s too heavy for ordinary tipper? Call KAMAZ. Etc.

This is true for many other soviet vehicles… My friend’s father used to plough his field with UAZ jeep when his tractor broke down… Try this with Range Rover…

It’s not the random thing that in UK these, who really need a working horse use Land Rover Defenders and not Discoverys for example. Because they are based on the same principles as most of soviet motoring industry was: simple, strong and reliable.

It’s interesting how we’ve got totally opposing views based on our backgrounds.Yours being east european with some Russian influence and mine being a British one with some US influence.

I think the design crierea of Russian tanks and aircraft over the years seem to sum up my point.Not simple strong and reliable more like cheap and nasty.The Centurion was simple,strong and reliable whereas the T 55-62 was just junk :open_mouth: :laughing: .Which is why Israel still exists.

While if the type of kill ratios,which the Germans were getting with their Me 109’s and FW190’s,against Russian aircraft during WW2 after 1941,had been the same against the Spitfire in 1940 or against the Griffon Spits,Mustangs and Thunderbolts in 1944 then you’d have probably preferred to stay under Russian rule than to join what would probably still be Hitler’s idea of the EU. :open_mouth:

Having said that the US did try the Russian idea with the Sherman because some thought that quantity was better than quality although they generally weren’t the ones sitting in them being taken out by Tigers at a ratio of around 5 to 1,at least until Germans ran out out of mechanical reliablity,ammunition and fuel before we ran out of tanks and people willing to sit in them.Luckily for the Russians (and us) the Germans didn’t have the sense to reach the conclusion that it’s all about combining the idea of simple,strong and reliable with quality by building the Centurion before we did,when they still had plenty of fuel and ammunition. :open_mouth:

It’s that type of design criterea combination which is built into that KW which is why it’s still worth (a lot) more than a used euro wagon that’s nowhere near as old and with nowhere near as many kilometers on it’s clock,let alone an old Kamaz of the same age.A modern Euro wagon is a bit like the design criterea of that Tiger.Overcomplicated and too expensive and a liability once it’s got a few miles on the clock. :open_mouth: :laughing:

Whereas a modern Kamaz is probably the worst of all worlds combination of a T 34 with the driveline of a Tiger. :bulb: :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

As for Russians being first into space that’s not exactly correct.They were the first into Earth orbit but that’s as far as they got and it’s not exactly the same thing as getting to the moon and back and the only reason why the yanks didn’t get any further is because they ran out of money because they gave their economy away to the Chinese etc. :unamused: :laughing: :wink:

As for empty Tatras being able to climb a few small hills.

youtube.com/watch?v=X3EeDf59YsQ

1970’S British/American engineering still going strong. :smiley:

Rallying.

youtube.com/watch?v=bdawZFm9Qy8

Russian music.

youtube.com/watch?v=_jqOGpzNrg4

Carryfast:

Whereas a modern Kamaz is probably the worst of all worlds combination of a T 34 with the driveline of a Tiger. :bulb: :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

Yeah, because Russians are idiots and they base construction of their trucks from 1970s on word war two tanks :unamused:

As for Russians being first into space that’s not exactly correct.They were the first into Earth orbit but that’s as far as they got and it’s not exactly the same thing as getting to the moon and back and the only reason why the yanks didn’t get any further is because they ran out of money because they gave their economy away to the Chinese etc. :unamused: :laughing: :wink:

Well, Russians went to Moon and back about the same time as Americans did. But they decided to send a robot, while Americans decided to send people, as they claimed to send robots is technically impossible… Russian on the other hand after some failures with rockets decided that to send people is to dangerous…

So they sent sobie remote controlled robot.

Do you recognize this nice chap?

Americans did not managed similar project until 1997…

Луноход project is also interesting, as when the Tchernobyl disaster happened, the Germans delivered remotely controlled buldozers to help clean the radioactive debris, but they were well too heavy to work on the roof… So the Луноход creators were called from retirement and they developed the remote controlled robot to clean it in a matter of days…

As we speak about Russians and space, they also were first on the Moon in general: This wee girl:

was deliberately crashed into Moon three years before Americans managed to do the same.

Ah, I just popped onto nice lists of what Russians did first when it comes to space exploration:

The Soviet space program pioneered many aspects of space exploration:
1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
1957: First animal in Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
1959: First rocket ignition in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth’s gravity, Luna 1
1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Heliocentric orbit, Luna 1
1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
1959: First images of the moon’s far side, Luna 3
1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
1961: First person to spend over 24 hours in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
1962: First dual manned spaceflight, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
1962: First probe launched to Mars, Mars 1
1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
1964: First multi-person crew (3), Voskhod 1
1965: First extra-vehicular activity (EVA), by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
1965: First probe to hit another planet of the Solar system (Venus), Venera 3
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
1968: First living beings to reach the Moon (circumlunar flights) and return unharmed to Earth, russian tortoises on Zond 5
1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5
1970: First soil samples automatically extracted and returned to Earth from another celestial body, Luna 16
1970: First robotic space rover, Lunokhod 1 on the Moon.
1970: First data received from the surface of another planet of the Solar system (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1
1971: First probe to reach surface and make soft landing on Mars, Mars 2
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, to make soft landing on Venus, first photos from surface of Venus, Venera 9
1980: First Hispanic and Black person in space, Arnaldo Tamayo Méndez on Soyuz 38
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station)
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7)
1986: First probes to deploy robotic balloons into Venus atmosphere and to return pictures of a comet during close flyby Vega 1, Vega 2
1986: First permanently manned space station, Mir, 1986—2001, with permanent presence on board (1989—1999)
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of Soyuz TM-4 - Mir

Mir is an interesting example on a subject of that discussion: it was operated in Space twice as much as was intended (according to the original plans, Soviets planned to replace it by Mir-2 in 1990s…)

Also let me remind you who is the only country able to support ISS since the space shuttle program was scrapped… Russians. And do they do it with their own space shuttle Buran? No, they scrapped the program when the Soviet Union collapsed, as they said without it’s intended role in Cold War is useless. They use their old, reliable rockets Progress and capsules Sojuz. Somehow I can’t see American Saturns flying to ISS with Apollo capsules… Nor somehow French Ariane rockets have no role in this…

And when Chinese were developing their own space program, did they stole American technology, or Russian?

So stop slagging Russians, because they know how to do simply things, but also rocket sience :wink:

And somehow I can’t see the mighty Britain putting much input into space exploration… The first Briton in Space went to Mir station, courtesy of USSR in 1991… Ten years after first Romanian in space… 9 years after first Frog in space… 3 years after first Afgan in space :smiley:

And this guy from retarded country in Eastern Europe, that according to some members of Trucknet is good enough only to eat mouldy turnips, was on Salut station in 1978…

With a REAL sience program, not with some publicity stunt, like Project Juno. Project Intercosmos led to creation of Mir station, and experiences with Mir helped to create ISS…

So we all know that you think Britain is the greatest country in Everything, but sadly, altough its a fantastic country, some other countries are better in some things. :wink: Just live with it :slight_smile:

orys:

Carryfast:

Whereas a modern Kamaz is probably the worst of all worlds combination of a T 34 with the driveline of a Tiger. :bulb: :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

Yeah, because Russians are idiots and they base construction of their trucks from 1970s on word war two tanks :unamused:

As for Russians being first into space that’s not exactly correct.They were the first into Earth orbit but that’s as far as they got and it’s not exactly the same thing as getting to the moon and back and the only reason why the yanks didn’t get any further is because they ran out of money because they gave their economy away to the Chinese etc. :unamused: :laughing: :wink:

Well, Russians went to Moon and back about the same time as Americans did. But they decided to send a robot, while Americans decided to send people, as they claimed to send robots is technically impossible… Russian on the other hand after some failures with rockets decided that to send people is to dangerous…

So they sent sobie remote controlled robot.

Do you recognize this nice chap?

Americans did not managed similar project until 1997…

Луноход project is also interesting, as when the Tchernobyl disaster happened, the Germans delivered remotely controlled buldozers to help clean the radioactive debris, but they were well too heavy to work on the roof… So the Луноход creators were called from retirement and they developed the remote controlled robot to clean it in a matter of days…

As we speak about Russians and space, they also were first on the Moon in general: This wee girl:

was deliberately crashed into Moon three years before Americans managed to do the same.

Ah, I just popped onto nice lists of what Russians did first when it comes to space exploration:

The Soviet space program pioneered many aspects of space exploration:
1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
1957: First animal in Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
1959: First rocket ignition in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth’s gravity, Luna 1
1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Heliocentric orbit, Luna 1
1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
1959: First images of the moon’s far side, Luna 3
1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
1961: First person to spend over 24 hours in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
1962: First dual manned spaceflight, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
1962: First probe launched to Mars, Mars 1
1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
1964: First multi-person crew (3), Voskhod 1
1965: First extra-vehicular activity (EVA), by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
1965: First probe to hit another planet of the Solar system (Venus), Venera 3
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
1968: First living beings to reach the Moon (circumlunar flights) and return unharmed to Earth, russian tortoises on Zond 5
1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5
1970: First soil samples automatically extracted and returned to Earth from another celestial body, Luna 16
1970: First robotic space rover, Lunokhod 1 on the Moon.
1970: First data received from the surface of another planet of the Solar system (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1
1971: First probe to reach surface and make soft landing on Mars, Mars 2
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, to make soft landing on Venus, first photos from surface of Venus, Venera 9
1980: First Hispanic and Black person in space, Arnaldo Tamayo Méndez on Soyuz 38
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station)
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7)
1986: First probes to deploy robotic balloons into Venus atmosphere and to return pictures of a comet during close flyby Vega 1, Vega 2
1986: First permanently manned space station, Mir, 1986—2001, with permanent presence on board (1989—1999)
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of Soyuz TM-4 - Mir

Mir is an interesting example on a subject of that discussion: it was operated in Space twice as much as was intended (according to the original plans, Soviets planned to replace it by Mir-2 in 1990s…)

Also let me remind you who is the only country able to support ISS since the space shuttle program was scrapped… Russians. And do they do it with their own space shuttle Buran? No, they scrapped the program when the Soviet Union collapsed, as they said without it’s intended role in Cold War is useless. They use their old, reliable rockets Progress and capsules Sojuz. Somehow I can’t see American Saturns flying to ISS with Apollo capsules… Nor somehow French Ariane rockets have no role in this…

And when Chinese were developing their own space program, did they stole American technology, or Russian?

So stop slagging Russians, because they know how to do simply things, but also rocket sience :wink:

And somehow I can’t see the mighty Britain putting much input into space exploration.

So we all know that you think Britain is the greatest country in Everything, but sadly, altough its a fantastic country, some other countries are better in some things. :wink: Just live with it :slight_smile:

Blimey so where the yanks were just messing about on the sidelines with stuff like Mercury and Apollo,with a bit of British help,because we were broke after getting the Germans back on their feet,the Russians were way ahead sending tortoises to the moon. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 … pace_Race/

Orys and carryfast I salute you both. What a thread derail a Renault magnum to the space race. :smiley:

So what you are really saying Orys is that all the junk floating around in space belongs to the Russians…do the Russians have Pikskis who could go and clear it all up…and you didn’t mention Concordski another great Russian success!!! Dare I say Britains space effort only allowed those on board to reach the edges of space drinking cocktails and eating the finest, Concorde…the British one that actually worked Comrade.

Carryfast:
Blimey so where the yanks were just messing about on the sidelines with stuff like Mercury and Apollo,with a bit of British help,because we were broke after getting the Germans back on their feet,the Russians were way ahead sending tortoises to the moon. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 … pace_Race/

Blah blah blah, as usuall you try to twist my words. I never said that the American space programme was not amazing, and that they did not had great successes. I just wanted to show you why you should not underestimate Russian achievements on that field.

Armagedon:
So what you are really saying Orys is that all the junk floating around in space belongs to the Russians…do the Russians have Pikskis who could go and clear it all up…and you didn’t mention Concordski another great Russian success!!! Dare I say Britains space effort only allowed those on board to reach the edges of space drinking cocktails and eating the finest, Concorde…the British one that actually worked Comrade.

Russians drop their stuff into atmosfere to burn it, I think that is a good connection to another active thread about who litter more - Eastern or Western Europeans…

As for Concordski, I guess you mean Tu-144, the FIRST supersonic passenger aircraft in the world? :slight_smile: I never heard anything about that it did not worked. The one that crashed on Paris air show, because Mirage fighter went into his path and the pilot made a mistake by trying to pull up too strongly? It was sucessfully working in line work for some years, despite that after the prototype crashed the passengers were too scared to fly with it (not without help of Western propaganda) but it was succesfully working as a cargo plane until it was hired to NASA to study supersonic flight physics…

And last time I checked the Concorde was not British solo project, but it was designed in cooperation with French… And also I never heard that it was ever in space, so I think your invocation of this example as a proof how good Britain is in space race is a bit too far-fetched…

Off course Concorde was very good plane, I think because it was second, they had more time to work out some design flows. Russians abandoned their supersonic program after the prototype of newer, improved Tu-144 crased, as they seen that it needed further developement while there was no economical need for it. And unlike Britons and French they don’t needed to splash money on it to show of, they had succesful space program up and running :slight_smile:

(Similar history repeated in 1990s and well into 2000s, Americans were pumping money in outdated space shuttle program and trying to promote it as the top of the tops of the space industry… Russians scrapped their Buran program, as both space shuttle programs were designed with a needs of Cold War in mind, and since that was no longer needed, they could focus on the purely scientific exploration of space… And they did not needed to show off with their space shuttle program - space shuttle was something that was already done in USA, so nothing new, what’s the point in wasting money on it if one has the worlds only running permanently manned space station? :slight_smile:

kr79:
Orys and carryfast I salute you both. What a thread derail a Renault magnum to the space race. :smiley:

There’s actually a direct comparison using the analogy of a WW2 Tiger and a modern type Euro wagon v a Centurion and an Ozzy KW though.

Given the choice between that or a modern DAF,Renault or Merc I’d rather put the money on the KW to last the distance and earn a living with less depreciation at the end of the day. :bulb: :wink:

Carryfast:

orys:
. . .

t of the Solar system (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1
1971: First probe to reach surface and make soft landing on Mars, Mars 2
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, to make soft landing on Venus, first photos from surface of Venus, Venera 9
1980: First Hispanic and Black person in space, Arnaldo Tamayo Méndez on Soyuz 38
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station)
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7)
1986: First probes to deploy robotic balloons into Venus atmosphere and to return pictures of a comet during close flyby Vega 1, Vega 2
1986: First permanently manned space station, Mir, 1986—2001, with permanent presence on board (1989—1999)
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of Soyuz TM-4 - Mir

Mir is an interesting example on a subject of that discussion: it was operated in Space twice as much as was intended (according to the original plans, Soviets planned to replace it by Mir-2 in 1990s…)

Also let me remind you who is the only country able to support ISS since the space shuttle program was scrapped… Russians. And do they do it with their own space shuttle Buran? No, they scrapped the program when the Soviet Union collapsed, as they said without it’s intended role in Cold War is useless. They use their old, reliable rockets Progress and capsules Sojuz. Somehow I can’t see American Saturns flying to ISS with Apollo capsules… Nor somehow French Ariane rockets have no role in this…

And when Chinese were developing their own space program, did they stole American technology, or Russian?

So stop slagging Russians, because they know how to do simply things, but also rocket sience :wink:

And somehow I can’t see the mighty Britain putting much input into space exploration. Here in my post were examples of kosmonauts who went to space before British, including Afgan and French ones, followed by picture of MirosÅ‚aw Hermaszewski…

So we all know that you think Britain is the greatest country in Everything, but sadly, altough its a fantastic country, some other countries are better in some things. :wink: Just live with it :slight_smile:

Blimey so where the yanks were just messing about on the sidelines with stuff like Mercury and Apollo,with a bit of British help,because we were broke after getting the Germans back on their feet,the Russians were way ahead sending tortoises to the moon. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 … pace_Race/

Hah, I just noticed it! Carryfast, you manipulative ■■■■■■■■ :slight_smile:

You DO know how to edit quotes - you just removed everything about Polish and other, so called “less developed nations” kosmonauts being up in space before Britons :wink: You propably just could not stand it :slight_smile:

So as we already know that you know how to edit quotes, can you please edit them next time and spare us quoting the whole posts? Thank you :slight_smile:

orys:
Hah, I just noticed it! Carryfast, you manipulative [zb]! :-you just removed everything about Polish and other, so called “less developed nations” kosmonauts being up in space before Britons :wink: You propably just could not stand it :slight_smile:

So as we already know that you know how to edit quotes, can you please edit them next time and spare us quoting the whole posts? Thank you :slight_smile:

The important bit is that they never got any cosmonauts to the moon because the Russians don’t seem to have been confident enough about their technology to take the risk of sending any there with a good chance of getting them back again.

Wheareas the Apollo astronauts obviously had enough faith to get in the thing and fly in it to the moon and back based on some good engineering and some calaculations,by a few Brits amongst others,carried out with a slide rule and less computing power than a mobile phone has today. :laughing:

Carryfast:
The important bit is that they never got any cosmonauts to the moon because the Russians don’t seem to have been confident enough about their technology to take the risk of sending any there with a good chance of getting them back again.

…or they had enough confidence in their technology to decide to send a lunar rover without need of risking the humans life to look after it… Remind you, again, for american this achievement was possible only in 1997 (Mars Pathfinder mission).

Wheareas the Apollo astronauts obviously had enough faith to get in the thing and fly in it to the moon and back based on some good engineering and some calaculations,

I am sure that crew of Apollo 1 fully supports your claims about the safety of travelling on Apollo crafts :stuck_out_tongue: Oh, wait, they are dead? Obviously it has to be Russians to blame.

by a few Brits amongst others

Naturalised Americans of British descent, you meant. So far Helen Sherman is the only one official British astronaut, in space thanks to project Juno, 13 years after Mirosław Hermaszewski, so 1:1 with Poland on that field in plain numbers (and yes, Americans of Polish descent also were flying on NASA missions).

EDITED: You got me interested here, as I never heard about some Britons in Apollo program, so I quickly browsed all Apollo astronauts to find that I was right. Amongst them there were no Britons. There was one who’s grandparents were Irish (James Irvin), one who’s mother was Czech (Lovell) and one half-Czech, half-Slovak (Eugene Cernan) :wink:

That makes Czechs having 2 astronauts and one cosmonaut in space and all of them before 1980 :slight_smile: Britain till today has 6 by this method of counting :slight_smile:

The carried out with a slide rule and less computing power than a mobile phone has today. :laughing:

Yeah, and Russian achievemnts were less heroic, as they were using Deep Blue computers back in 60s :unamused:

I thought most of the rocket scientists were nazis.

orys:

Carryfast:
The important bit is that they never got any cosmonauts to the moon because the Russians don’t seem to have been confident enough about their technology to take the risk of sending any there with a good chance of getting them back again.

…or they had enough confidence in their technology to decide to send a lunar rover without need of risking the humans life to look after it… Remind you, again, for american this achievement was possible only in 1997 (Mars Pathfinder mission).

Wheareas the Apollo astronauts obviously had enough faith to get in the thing and fly in it to the moon and back based on some good engineering and some calaculations,

I am sure that crew of Apollo 1 fully supports your claims about the safety of travelling on Apollo crafts :stuck_out_tongue: Oh, wait, they are dead? Obviously it has to be Russians to blame.

by a few Brits amongst others

Naturalised Americans of British descent, you meant. So far Helen Sherman is the only one official British astronaut, in space thanks to project Juno, 13 years after Mirosław Hermaszewski, so 1:1 with Poland on that field in plain numbers (and yes, Americans of Polish descent also were flying on NASA missions).

EDITED: You got me interested here, as I never heard about some Britons in Apollo program, so I quickly browsed all Apollo astronauts to find that I was right. Amongst them there were no Britons. There was one who’s grandparents were Irish (James Irvin), one who’s mother was Czech (Lovell) and one half-Czech, half-Slovak (Eugene Cernan) :wink:

That makes Czechs having 2 astronauts and one cosmonaut in space and all of them before 1980 :slight_smile: Britain till today has 6 by this method of counting :slight_smile:

The carried out with a slide rule and less computing power than a mobile phone has today. :laughing:

Yeah, and Russian achievemnts were less heroic, as they were using Deep Blue computers back in 60s :unamused:

I think this all has to qualify as “Thread drift of the Century” at least as far as it relates to Renault Magnums. :wink:

Anyway, nobody of any nationality has ever been to the moon, it was all filmed in a studio in Nevada, I thought everyone knew that. :smiley:

orys:

Carryfast:
The important bit is that they never got any cosmonauts to the moon because the Russians don’t seem to have been confident enough about their technology to take the risk of sending any there with a good chance of getting them back again.

…or they had enough confidence in their technology to decide to send a lunar rover without need of risking the humans life to look after it… Remind you, again, for american this achievement was possible only in 1997 (Mars Pathfinder mission).

Wheareas the Apollo astronauts obviously had enough faith to get in the thing and fly in it to the moon and back based on some good engineering and some calaculations,

I am sure that crew of Apollo 1 fully supports your claims about the safety of travelling on Apollo crafts :stuck_out_tongue: Oh, wait, they are dead? Obviously it has to be Russians to blame.

by a few Brits amongst others

Naturalised Americans of British descent, you meant. So far Helen Sherman is the only one official British astronaut, in space thanks to project Juno, 13 years after Mirosław Hermaszewski, so 1:1 with Poland on that field in plain numbers (and yes, Americans of Polish descent also were flying on NASA missions).

EDITED: You got me interested here, as I never heard about some Britons in Apollo program, so I quickly browsed all Apollo astronauts to find that I was right. Amongst them there were no Britons. There was one who’s grandparents were Irish (James Irvin), one who’s mother was Czech (Lovell) and one half-Czech, half-Slovak (Eugene Cernan) :wink:

Firstly the lunar rover was actually driven on the moon by astronauts who went on the later Apollo missions which showed that they were actually confident enough in the thing’s engineering to go there more than once. :wink:

As for Apollo 1 that’s what test pilots do for a living and sometimes that’s the only way to find design flaws and that’s one of the reasons that the Americans got there.

youtube.com/watch?v=MsvouGfV … re=related

The Brits in the programme were engineers not astronauts (check out the i player video) in which case they were obviously important. :bulb:

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 … pace_Race/

24.00-24.47

Harry Monk:

orys:

Carryfast:
The important bit is that they never got any cosmonauts to the moon because the Russians don’t seem to have been confident enough about their technology to take the risk of sending any there with a good chance of getting them back again.

…or they had enough confidence in their technology to decide to send a lunar rover without need of risking the humans life to look after it… Remind you, again, for american this achievement was possible only in 1997 (Mars Pathfinder mission).

Wheareas the Apollo astronauts obviously had enough faith to get in the thing and fly in it to the moon and back based on some good engineering and some calaculations,

I am sure that crew of Apollo 1 fully supports your claims about the safety of travelling on Apollo crafts :stuck_out_tongue: Oh, wait, they are dead? Obviously it has to be Russians to blame.

by a few Brits amongst others

Naturalised Americans of British descent, you meant. So far Helen Sherman is the only one official British astronaut, in space thanks to project Juno, 13 years after Mirosław Hermaszewski, so 1:1 with Poland on that field in plain numbers (and yes, Americans of Polish descent also were flying on NASA missions).

EDITED: You got me interested here, as I never heard about some Britons in Apollo program, so I quickly browsed all Apollo astronauts to find that I was right. Amongst them there were no Britons. There was one who’s grandparents were Irish (James Irvin), one who’s mother was Czech (Lovell) and one half-Czech, half-Slovak (Eugene Cernan) :wink:

That makes Czechs having 2 astronauts and one cosmonaut in space and all of them before 1980 :slight_smile: Britain till today has 6 by this method of counting :slight_smile:

The carried out with a slide rule and less computing power than a mobile phone has today. :laughing:

Yeah, and Russian achievemnts were less heroic, as they were using Deep Blue computers back in 60s :unamused:

I think this all has to qualify as “Thread drift of the Century” at least as far as it relates to Renault Magnums. :wink:

Anyway, nobody of any nationality has ever been to the moon, it was all filmed in a studio in Nevada, I thought everyone knew that. :smiley:

I’m surprised that Orys hasn’t tried to make the case that the Lunar Rover was actually a joint effort between Kamaz and Tatra. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

But if it was really all a conspiracy a Saturn 5 would have been the most expensive conspiracy in history when something smaller and cheaper probably would have done just as good a job of convincing the public at large.:open_mouth: :bulb: :wink:

It was all made up. Here’s some genuine Apollo footage, and you can quite clearly see that this fallen astronaut is being pulled upright by a wire. :wink:

I loved button moon when I was a kid.

kr79:
I loved button moon when I was a kid.

I thought the first ones their were the Clangers :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: