Ok, since i only hold a cat C licence, can i A, Tow - with a pole or rope, to the nearest safe place to get the vehicle loaded? and B, Legally put a car on the spec lift and suspend tow it, or would i need C+E for that?
This question has been done to death with everyone i work with, and it seems to be a big gray area in everyones eyes, the vehicle is always over 3.5t i think the smallest is around 5t?
I cant remember what one of the guys showed me but it was something to do with towing, and said as long as it does not over load the towing vehicle, then im fine. But, if its a trailer, or caravan in that case, i cant, but says nothing about spec lift a car or car on tow pole/rope.
You need a CE licence if the towing vehicle is over 7.5 tonnes and/or car on the spec lift is over 750kg. Same with a caravan - over 750kg.
This is still widely ignored by quite a few recovery firms who send class two drivers out with spec lifts - I know, I worked for one.
Maybe worth also remembering that any vehicle towed on a spec frame is classed as a trailer so unless it weighs less than 750 kg (eg a smart car) it should have over-ride brakes to all four wheels. There is an exception to this if it is a ‘breakdown recovery’ with a ‘breakdown vehicle’. The exception does not apply to collection/delivery of vehicles. This is why you don’t see people at car auctions with A frames or spec lifts now.
LittleSplitpin:
and it seems to be a big gray area in everyones eyes,
I’d note that there are actually very few of these, not just in this area but others too and as you can see from the replies there’s a definitive answer to your question
Tipper Tom:
If you have trailer on your car licence then you an tow a trailer behind the spec obviously.
If you are carrying out a suspended two you need to keep the weights within the plates weight if the spec and within any restrictions on your licence
Other than that you’re golden
Thanks bud, Completely missed this comment until i had a quick look through it again , Time for some well needed sleep!, But guess i need to go take my C+E to keep within the law.
When I worked for On-Time, as the bosses agreed it was a grey area, if we were ever to get stopped by police/vosa they would fully support the drivers, but at the same time if we didn’t want to use the spec lift we didnt have to.
One driver did have a bit of trouble from vosa but the company backed him all the way with all the reasons / facts they thought it was ok.
I would generally take normal saloon cars, hatchbacks, as the axle on the road once the front is lifted was APPROX 750kgs.
As I have a late licence I can only tow 750kgs.
fordboxer:
When I worked for On-Time, as the bosses agreed it was a grey area, if we were ever to get stopped by police/vosa they would fully support the drivers (Yes, I have heard this all before), but at the same time if we didn’t want to use the spec lift we didnt have to.
One driver did have a bit of trouble from vosa but the company backed him all the way with all the reasons / facts they thought it was ok.
I would generally take normal saloon cars, hatchbacks, as the axle on the road once the front is lifted was APPROX 750kgs.
As I have a late licence I can only tow 750kgs.
I would not like to have to resort to that line of thinking - that only the weight resting on the road is counted. If you are stopped with a trailer and VOSA weigh it they don’t deduct the nose-weight (supported by the tow-ball) from the total weight so why would they with a car?
As has been previously said, there are not any grey areas. There is, however, a lot of confusion purposely created by employers who are breaking the law and promising to ‘fully support the drivers’. Anyhow, why would a driver need support if he was working within the regulations?
That was exactly my thinking, but I had it in writing from the company so it didn’t bother me a bit, I have been pulled over by vosa when working for on time, as I had a van on the bed, they pulled me because “they thought I was driving a 7.5t??” They checked the plates and realised it was a heavy, so as far my faith in vosa goes, when it comes to the recovery side of things they dont seem to know what their on about…
hi everyone. im also quite confused with the c and e for using a speclift for recovery. Whilst searching google for info on the topic I came across this site and it showed the same question from a few years back, and one of the members poss cieranc if I remember rightly had put something along the lines of" if the vehicle on the spec is broken down and being used under recovery operation and tax purposes etc then a category c is ok". If the vehicle is collection and delivery then its subject to c and e licence, tacho and o licence. Is that correct? is it still correct? After reading the vosa recovery guide there is the mention og braking regs not applying for a disabled/broken down vehicle. can anyone shed a bit more light on this? many thanks-Anthony
ant1379:
hi everyone. im also quite confused with the c and e for using a speclift for recovery. Whilst searching google for info on the topic I came across this site and it showed the same question from a few years back, and one of the members poss cieranc if I remember rightly had put something along the lines of" if the vehicle on the spec is broken down and being used under recovery operation and tax purposes etc then a category c is ok". If the vehicle is collection and delivery then its subject to c and e licence, tacho and o licence. Is that correct? is it still correct? After reading the vosa recovery guide there is the mention of braking regs not applying for a disabled/broken down vehicle. can anyone shed a bit more light on this? many thanks-Anthony
This comes up a lot.
With regards to braking systems: There is an exception in the Construction and Use Regulations that all wheels (of a trailer over 750kg) need not be braked if it is disabled and being recovered. In this context, a disabled car IS a trailer (see below).
Regarding using a spec-lift: The law sees a dedicated spec-lift (breakdown vehicle) vehicle differently to a flat-bed with a spec-lift (recovery vehicle). The matter has been discussed on here (and elsewhere) many times. I will assume you are talking about the normal tilt-bed plus spec-lift type of recovery truck.
Many recovery firms send out Class 2 drivers to use the spec-lift BUT that doesn’t mean this is legal. There is no exemption in the regulations that say a Class 2 driver can tow a trailer (over 750kg) with a recovery vehicle.
The VOSA Guide (page 18) says A broken down vehicle towed behind a recovery vehicle is viewed as a trailer in legal terms.
To take the matter one step further, ask yourself this question;
If a Class 2 driver could recover a vehicle on a spec lift, why do the AA and RAC only employ Class 1 drivers for this type of recovery work?
There is a lot of hit-and-miss enforcement in this area. The introduction to the VOSA Guide actually says As a result of that uncertainty, some non-compliance has been identified within the industry, but inconsistency in enforcement has also become apparent.
I firmly believe much of this so-called ‘confusion’ is created by (some) recovery firms who get through (as in burn out) dozens of drivers and pay around £8 an hour for 50-70 hour weeks. They won’t get many Class 1 drivers to work for money like that so they do what they have to to stay in business.
many thanks for the reply. It was the braking regulations but that was puzzling me and dvla and even vosa wont give me a straight answer either way. As you have stated many recovery firms, in my area as well area have said class 2 is fine for tilt bed with spec work for breakdown and recovery use only. After reading section 18 of the vosa guide the braking regulations are apparently not complient to the broken down vehicle, therefore the 750 kg has gone?? That’s how I am reading it but obviously im reading it wrong. Has this ever gone to court does anyone know?
ant1379:
many thanks for the reply. It was the braking regulations but that was puzzling me and dvla and even vosa wont give me a straight answer either way. As you have stated many recovery firms, in my area as well area have said class 2 is fine for tilt bed with spec work for breakdown and recovery use only. After reading section 18 of the vosa guide the braking regulations are apparently not complient to the broken down vehicle, therefore the 750 kg has gone?? That’s how I am reading it but obviously im reading it wrong. Has this ever gone to court does anyone know?
Don’t worry about the brakes matter. A disabled vehicle on a spec-lift that is being recovered by a recovery vehicle is exempt from the ‘brakes on all wheels’ regulation. The 750kg bit does not come into it.
now that’s were I was reading it wrong then. So basically to cut a long story short if tomorrow whilst im out in my 10 ton tilt and slide with spec lift, recovering a car I get another break down on the way back which I spec and take to a garage. A-am I illegal or B-in a gray area that could possibly not be inforced? could I ask why neither dvla or vosa will give me a straight answer either way? Also in the vosa guidelines to licences they give an example of a 17 ton recovery towing a car needing a c+e licence. Could you tell me why they have used 17 ton as an example■■? many thanks and sorry for going over and over the same question im just interested in all the ins and outs.
ant1379:
now that’s were I was reading it wrong then. So basically to cut a long story short if tomorrow whilst im out in my 10 ton tilt and slide with spec lift, recovering a car I get another break down on the way back which I spec and take to a garage. A-am I illegal or B-in a gray area that could possibly not be inforced? could I ask why neither dvla or vosa will give me a straight answer either way? Also in the vosa guidelines to licences they give an example of a 17 ton recovery towing a car needing a c+e licence. Could you tell me why they have used 17 ton as an example■■? many thanks and sorry for going over and over the same question im just interested in all the ins and outs.
Right, now you are getting it.
The 17 tonne truck is just an example. The weight only matters in ensuring you do not exceed the maximum weight for the truck.
Sounds perfectly legal to me so neither illegal or a grey area (assuming you have a Class 1 licence).
Questions to DVLA oe VOSA have to be worded carefully, and even then you may not get a straight answer. They don’t want us to know as much as them, do they?
