600 a week costs 
When I was just starting work in this industry 40+ years ago it was at a time when the change over from rigids to max weight artics was in full swing. The haulier I worked for said to me words along the lines of āthe bigger the lorry and the further I send it then the less profit I makeā. Never was there a truer statement in all my years in transport. And back then fuel was about 20% of the rate for a job and wages about 25%. Today wages are still much the same percentage, give or take, but fuel costs are double at 40%. Local work is the key to running a profitable business these days, full load distance work is not worth a light.
chaversdad:
just over 35%
Are you sure you dont mean 3.5?
Harry Monk:
If it paid Ā£1,000 a week profit after wages then everybody would be queueing up to do it.My average weekly turnover is Ā£2,250 and I work on the basis of Ā£150 a week profit after wages. Ā£1,000 diesel, Ā£600 standing costs, Ā£500 wages.
Without divulging, unless you want to, too much information, are you happy with your wages?
Lusk:
Without divulging, unless you want to, too much information, are you happy with your wages?
itās slightly above what Iād earn as an employee in my area, and the profit is more than the return Iād get leaving the money in the bank. But itās not just about the money, itās about quality of life. I was somewhere last week and there was a notice on the notice board saying when drivers could and could not have their holidays next year. If you wanted a week off in February or November, no problem. If you wanted a week off during the school holidays to take the kids away, just forget it. If I want a week off, I just say āIām not available next weekā and thatās that.
chaversdad:
600 a week costs
Yes, thatās what I allow, it probably comes to a little bit less, but not much. Finance and insurance together are about Ā£250 a week, I allow Ā£120 a week for maintenance, Ā£40 a week for the yard so weāre up to Ā£410 already, then thereās tyres (I know thatās not strictly speaking a standing cost but itās included in the Ā£600), road tax, phone, broadband, just as in everyday life, itās all the little bits that add up.
Harry Monk:
Lusk:
Without divulging, unless you want to, too much information, are you happy with your wages?itās slightly above what Iād earn as an employee in my area, and the profit is more than the return Iād get leaving the money in the bank. But itās not just about the money, itās about quality of life. I was somewhere last week and there was a notice on the notice board saying when drivers could and could not have their holidays next year. If you wanted a week off in February or November, no problem. If you wanted a week off during the school holidays to take the kids away, just forget it. If I want a week off, I just say āIām not available next weekā and thatās that.
I used to be employed and would never envisaged being self employed, but now I am self employed I actually quite like it. Iāve had Mon, Tues and Wednesday of this week off. I was meant to work today but havent as was stood down but Iāve got work tomorrow, Sat is a day off and then back to it on Sunday. And as for next week, who knows.
Harry Monk:
If I want a week off, I just say āIām not available next weekā and thatās that.
That statement is very true, and worth a lot. Im now self employed, running my own business and love it.
I have never been so skint (last tax year the tax man paid ME ā¦honest!) but the rewards of building up your own business from scratch, having no boss to answer to, no one to say when you can and cannot have a holiday or just taking a few days out when I want(because I can!) are great.
Harry Monk:
If it paid Ā£1,000 a week profit after wages then everybody would be queueing up to do it.My average weekly turnover is Ā£2,250 and I work on the basis of Ā£150 a week profit after wages. Ā£1,000 diesel, Ā£600 standing costs, Ā£500 wages.
Speak for yourself 
Direct work pays better than sub contracted, in my experience.
Some weeks itās less and some itās more.
Like Iāve already said: Locals pay better than distance, in terms of vfm and burn rate.
Harry Monk:
weewulliewinkie:
matt you stated that you had all your costs and expenses ect worked out. so you should be able to work out what you need to charge out to make your business profitable. this is assuming you have regular work, but your are asking a question that nobody can answer without knowing your type of business. it could be ppm, per ton, per pallet, per day,
per load, yearly contract, ad hoc the list goes on and on but basically its the costs of your day to day running plus overheads plus wages and a profit and then you will arrive at a figure you need to earn per month/per year to make it a profitable enterprise. its a bit more complicated than that but thatās about it in anybodys languageYes, thatās just about it. The OP needs to work out what the gross earnings of the truck will be, how much diesel he will use earning it, and what his standing charges will be. Subtract the second two from the first one and thatās what heāll be left with.
Thatās the only way to do it, plucking a ppm figure out of the air is a waste of time, different operations have different costs.
I would need to charge more than Harry (if I was still doing it) to make the same profit, based on yard rental alone as I used to pay a lot more than he does due to my location.
Then there are individual circumstances, such as tax liabilities to take into account. And a bloke thatās content with a couple of hundred tax free quid a week will be able to run for less than someone who wants a minimum of a grand a week in his back pocket.
Goaty:
Harry Monk:
If it paid Ā£1,000 a week profit after wages then everybody would be queueing up to do it.My average weekly turnover is Ā£2,250 and I work on the basis of Ā£150 a week profit after wages. Ā£1,000 diesel, Ā£600 standing costs, Ā£500 wages.
Speak for yourself
Direct work pays better than sub contracted, in my experience.
Some weeks itās less and some itās more.Like Iāve already said: Locals pay better than distance, in terms of vfm and burn rate.
Totally true, the shorter the run the more profit, mileage rates are never going to make much more than a 10% profit margin at best, but charge by the hour/half day/day and you can turn a decent profit. Not so much because of the high rate, but because of the lower cost of operation.
All you do when you punch up and down the road every day is pay bigger bills to get a bigger cheque, in most cases anyway.
Harry Monk:
chaversdad:
600 a week costsYes, thatās what I allow, it probably comes to a little bit less, but not much. Finance and insurance together are about Ā£250 a week, I allow Ā£120 a week for maintenance, Ā£40 a week for the yard so weāre up to Ā£410 already, then thereās tyres (I know thatās not strictly speaking a standing cost but itās included in the Ā£600), road tax, phone, broadband, just as in everyday life, itās all the little bits that add up.
ah see i work it a bit different, i pay insurance etc when they are due so i knock everything like that off what my profit would be so my weekly standing costs are a lot less, phone broadband tyres etc are just a bill so they get paid when they come in, i suppose we all have our different ways of working out,
As regards to what has been said about local work i must agree completely, i do 430kms on the same run everyday, 2.5 hrs there, tip, reload from the same site then 2.5 hrs back and tip 8miles from where i load from, gets a bit boring monday-friday doing exactly the same job but i dont work weekends and havent had a night out in over 3 years
Goaty:
Speak for yourselfDirect work pays better than sub contracted, in my experience.
Some weeks itās less and some itās more.
Yes, plenty of people earn more it it than I do but even the most successful OD I know (Iām sure you said you met him at the exhibition parking in Barcelona, maybe 5-6 years ago, Mr Fleetwood?) would laugh like a drain if I suggested to him that he was making a regular Ā£1,000 a week profit after paying himself a Ā£500 wage.
I have had weeks where Iāve made that kind of profit with my own work, maybe three or four times, but for the most part I do bread and butter work and itās sufficient.
I earn a living at it, I pay myself about the same as the Gregoryās employed drivers, with just enough profit to make it worth doing, but as Iāve said before money isnāt and has never been my main motivation, quality of life is far more important.
As we know, your situation is different Harry, lots of people look at becoming an O/D as a path to riches. You never had that as a goal, although you say that you earn well at your other work.
Now, without that other work and imagine that you were doing it purely for the money, could you honestly say that becoming an O/D was a good decision?
Youāve been at it a little while now, you are getting what you want out of it, but if you had a major expense, would you get into a bit of debt to get yourself out of it, or would you walk away with what youāve made so far (assuming that youāve broke even so far)
Iām 38 now. Iām married with 4 kids and still work my arse off. I believe, āHarryā, that your situation differs from my own.
The margins I speak of havenāt appeared overnight and rely on a 5 day week.
Iām aware it smacks of ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā to some folk on here. Not my problem. You see most o/dās I know still hop from one haulier to the next and moan like ā ā ā ā about rates, blissfully unaware thereās at least 1 more ātierā in terms of rates, above their starvation rates. But in their mind what they get is all there possibly isā¦
Iāve made some howling mistakes too since 09 and I reckon all up Iāve been taken for Ā£20-30k. So its by no means plain sailing. But you learn and evolve or you go under.
For Ā£1000 diesel you need to be earning Ā£3000 or more ,any less is crazy.
newmercman:
As we know, your situation is different Harry, lots of people look at becoming an O/D as a path to riches. You never had that as a goal, although you say that you earn well at your other work.Now, without that other work and imagine that you were doing it purely for the money, could you honestly say that becoming an O/D was a good decision?
Youāve been at it a little while now, you are getting what you want out of it, but if you had a major expense, would you get into a bit of debt to get yourself out of it, or would you walk away with what youāve made so far (assuming that youāve broke even so far)
Well, to answer these in order, yes I would say it was a good decision because for most of the previous five years I had either been out of work or had a crap job. Iāve never seen running a truck as a road to riches, I know plenty of people who do it and most are quite honest about whatās in it, a reasonable living with enough left over to make it worthwhile.
I do get major expenses, any five year old truck is going to need a lot of work, Iāve just spent Ā£3,200 on a brake overhaul, last year I had a clutch, and alternator and tensioners in the same month, it just goes with the territory. Between those times I had a nine-month run where I hardly needed anything doing, so I just put money away then for when I would have a major outlay. Where folk go wrong in my opinion is to take too much out during the good spells rather than saving for a rainy day.
I keep my books very carefully, Iām almost obsessive about the accounting side, had I packed up any time in the first 3-4 months I would have lost money, and hit the break-even point after 3-4 months. I could get out at any time, Iāve got about Ā£9,000 of finance on a truck worth Ā£15,000 at a conservative estimate so thereās nothing trapping me in it. I will be doing it up to 2016 and then Iām off to pastures new.
I do always give the same advice to wannabeās, if you have a good employed job paying a reasonable wage and a decent boss, then stick with that.
Harry Monk:
Lusk:
Without divulging, unless you want to, too much information, are you happy with your wages?itās slightly above what Iād earn as an employee in my area, and the profit is more than the return Iād get leaving the money in the bank. But itās not just about the money, itās about quality of life. I was somewhere last week and there was a notice on the notice board saying when drivers could and could not have their holidays next year. If you wanted a week off in February or November, no problem. If you wanted a week off during the school holidays to take the kids away, just forget it. If I want a week off, I just say āIām not available next weekā and thatās that.
Hmmm must be going wrong somewhere, Iāve not managed to get more than a 3 day break at any one time in the past 5 yearsā¦
coiler:
Hmmm must be going wrong somewhere, Iāve not managed to get more than a 3 day break at any one time in the past 5 yearsā¦
Iāve had three separate weeks off this year, one was MOT week but the other two I just parked it up for the week. I suppose I could have put a driver on it but there are only two or three people I would want driving it and none of them were around at those times.
I take odd days off here and there, for example Iām taking next Friday off because me and the kids are going to the Brands Hatch Truck Festival for the weekend and we want to spend the Friday cleaning the old girl up a bit, again Iāve just told the traffic desk that Iām only available Monday to Thursday next week and they are absolutely fine with that, as an employed driver you just couldnāt tell the company when you would be working next week, theyād tell you.
Like I said, for me personally itās not just about the money, quality of life is far more important to me so for as long as I can carry on earning a reasonable living at it and putting a bit of money by, I will, until I sell up, pack up work altogether and sail off in my narrow boat sometime in 2016. 
Harry Monk:
I take odd days off here and there, for example Iām taking next Friday off because me and the kids are going to the Brands Hatch Truck Festival for the weekend and we want to spend the Friday cleaning the old girl up a bit, again Iāve just told the traffic desk that Iām only available Monday to Thursday next week and they are absolutely fine with that, as an employed driver you just couldnāt tell the company when you would be working next week, theyād tell you.
itās great it works that way for you, but that can work the other way for many contractors, where there is more pressure to ābe thereā than an employed driver and with far more to lose
The pressure is often applied. But the ābusinessmanā has the option to say no. Most donāt.
Any O/D has to be an adult to gain an o licence. Nobodyās forced to go it alone. Find the right work or stay put.