Question for Bking, TNUK's resident Mechanic/Fitter

Bking:

Own Account Driver:

Bking:

Own Account Driver:
Well I wouldn’t let BKing loose on a bicycle puncture.

I do know exactly what is wrong and why it’s happening the answer is in my first post on the Amber ABS thread in the explanation for the reason that no ABS susie to an EBS trailer is an immediate prohibition rather than delayed.

I’II leave it and see if that’s enough of a clue for BKing to get the right answer.

You really are full of it arnt you. Crap I mean

What the hell has EBS got to do with ABS ?

EBS has a lot to do with ABS but lets not jump the gun before we’ve got to the bottom of this little tutorial first.

Are you sure brakes lock up because the ABS isn’t working? Before ABS folk managed to drive everywhere without locking up all the time?

Here’s the clue, he said the brakes were locking up on the way back/empty. Now the loaded and unloaded weight of commercial vehicles is known to cause problems with the brake force applied so let’s draw upon your 40 years man and boy experience and see if you know what part might be put on a trailer to solve this problem?

Have you the slightest idea what you are talking about?
Of course the brakes lock up without ABS.
Thats the whole purpose of Anti Lock Braking Systems !!!

How did anyone get anywhere safely before ABS then?

Even without ABS you would only lock up under harsh emergency braking or slippery conditions.

But trailers need more brakes when loaded than unloaded so something is designed into the system to prevent this.

Bking:

Honked:
The brake pressure may have been increased for mot and not reduced back after.
Does it do it with all units? That will tell you if it’s brake pressure or abs fault.

Brake pressure increased?

What the( ZB )are you amatuers on about !

The brake pressure is controlled by the the load imposed on the air bags.
Glad I dont work for the cowboys you boys run for
Jesus.

No it’s not we’ve been down this road before haven’t we dummy?

The load imposed on the trailer is estimated by measuring the pressure in the suspension air bags the brake pressure is controlled by a different component

Come on, some of these amateurs you moan about have got the answer before you?

martinviking:

Bking:

martinviking:
Today I’ve been stitched up with trailer 26, it’s an M&G Curtain Sider, 2005 (10 years old) connected to my tractor-MAN TGX 26-440, 2013, 2 years old)

The ABS Light has been on all day (I know I should have left it in the yard, but I had a 10.00 drop in South Wales)
On the way back/empty, some of the wheels were
locking up.

When I get back to the yard I will park it up & refuse to take it out again, until it is fixed (PROPERLY !) our resident fitter will argue that they are not Compatible with each other & it’s not a problem !
My argument will be
“I wonder how VOSA/DVSA/GESTAPO will view it & my licence for taking a known defected trailer out on the road”

Question is-
Is our Fitter talking Sense, or is it BS ?

He is talking bs All ABS systems are “compatible” what the hell would be the point of “incompatible” abs.

Even if you have an S socket fed abs system and a standard ISO coupling on the tractor your company should have a loop feed installed that feeds The S socket from pins 1 to 5 on the ISO lead.

Usually a 2nd ISO socket fitted to the A frame and linked into the S loop.

If you look on the trailer plate and the brake code number ends in a 7 or a K then the ABS must work before the vehicle goes out on the road unless it is pulled by a vehicle not equipped with ABS.Eg a yard shunter (terberg etc.)

The amber light is telling you the ABS is disabled.

Thanks Bking, I suspected it was BS, the fault is with the trailer, it’s a few years old, we’ve got a few more around the same age & I’ve often had ABS lights flashing on & the odd lock up, even with very gentle braking, especially in the Winter/wet/cold, maybe they’re in need of refurbishment (or ship 'em out to Africa). The brakes hav’nt been adjusted for MOT, it’s not due until August & our fitter won’t do any work on it unless it’s needed [emoji57].
I parked it up on Monday afternoon, telling out fitter that it was VOR’d, but a ‘Chimpanzee’ took it out Tuesday or Wednesday, so what more can I do. (I’M NOT TAKING IT OUT AGAIN !)

Sorry if I started an argument, every ones opinion differs a bit.

Own Account Driver-
Would that part that you are talking about be a Load Sensor ?
We’ve got another trailer (24) that locks up all the time when empty, just touch the brakes & it’s like a little Hiroshima behind you [emoji598][emoji297]️[emoji598][emoji297][emoji598]️[emoji297]️no ABS light in the cab, pretty sure that’s a load sensor issue. (Another one I’m refusing to take out, VOSA would have a field day !)

Honked-
No Glowing Star, sorry, as I said earlier, it’s not due MOT until August & I don’t reckon it’s seen a spanner since last August, it’s just a Knackered Old Trailer, on its last legs, ready for the scrap yard or Africa.

Thanks for all the advice.

Yes, when ever a trailer locks up empty excessively the most likely culprit is the load sensing valve function is not operating correctly.

Yes, they can be fiddled with to alter brake performance for MOT but I wouldn’t think it’s that common as tri-axle trailers can be presented empty and pass on locks yet will fail if they lock up too quickly - which they would on full 1-1 unmodulated brake pressure. Also, as explained further below, it’s only on older trailers there is a physical valve to fiddle with on newer they are part of the EBS system.

On an earlier say 1999 ABS trailer (pre-EBS) there will be a dedicated mechanical pnematic load sensing valve that alters brake pressure depending on the load/pressure in the suspension air bags which can be physically calibrated/adjusted. It is purely pneumatic so it even if the trailer ABS was not working the load sensing valve would still always work

On your 2005 trailer it will be EBS and despite Bking’s usual angry twaddle it is not just a CAN electrical connection between unit and trailer it does a lot more than that. It dispenses with the physical pneumatic load sensing valve and duplicates the same function within its electronic brain. It does have emergency back-up called ‘pneumatic redundancy’ if its electronic brain is not operational so will operate on the red and yellow airline.

Unlike an earlier ABS trailer though with the electronic brain out of action there is no separate pneumatically operated load sensing valve so with the electronic system down the load sensing goes to. This is why on the other thread VOSA will give delayed prohibitions to older ABS trailers but immediate to newer EBS as their load sensing is out of action. It’s a case of not everything being progress.

The unit is displaying as an ABS fault but I would say the whole trailer electronic system is out of action and you are driving it on emergency pneumatic redundancy which gives the very basic emergency operation of full tank pressure braking with no load sensing or ABS - again despite what Bking is saying it is the absence of the load-sensing and not ABS that is causing the locking up empty.

Own Account Driver:

martinviking:

Bking:

martinviking:
Today I’ve been stitched up with trailer 26, it’s an M&G Curtain Sider, 2005 (10 years old) connected to my tractor-MAN TGX 26-440, 2013, 2 years old)

The ABS Light has been on all day (I know I should have left it in the yard, but I had a 10.00 drop in South Wales)
On the way back/empty, some of the wheels were
locking up.

When I get back to the yard I will park it up & refuse to take it out again, until it is fixed (PROPERLY !) our resident fitter will argue that they are not Compatible with each other & it’s not a problem !
My argument will be
“I wonder how VOSA/DVSA/GESTAPO will view it & my licence for taking a known defected trailer out on the road”

Question is-
Is our Fitter talking Sense, or is it BS ?

He is talking bs All ABS systems are “compatible” what the hell would be the point of “incompatible” abs.

Even if you have an S socket fed abs system and a standard ISO coupling on the tractor your company should have a loop feed installed that feeds The S socket from pins 1 to 5 on the ISO lead.

Usually a 2nd ISO socket fitted to the A frame and linked into the S loop.

If you look on the trailer plate and the brake code number ends in a 7 or a K then the ABS must work before the vehicle goes out on the road unless it is pulled by a vehicle not equipped with ABS.Eg a yard shunter (terberg etc.)

The amber light is telling you the ABS is disabled.

Thanks Bking, I suspected it was BS, the fault is with the trailer, it’s a few years old, we’ve got a few more around the same age & I’ve often had ABS lights flashing on & the odd lock up, even with very gentle braking, especially in the Winter/wet/cold, maybe they’re in need of refurbishment (or ship 'em out to Africa). The brakes hav’nt been adjusted for MOT, it’s not due until August & our fitter won’t do any work on it unless it’s needed [emoji57].
I parked it up on Monday afternoon, telling out fitter that it was VOR’d, but a ‘Chimpanzee’ took it out Tuesday or Wednesday, so what more can I do. (I’M NOT TAKING IT OUT AGAIN !)

Sorry if I started an argument, every ones opinion differs a bit.

Own Account Driver-
Would that part that you are talking about be a Load Sensor ?
We’ve got another trailer (24) that locks up all the time when empty, just touch the brakes & it’s like a little Hiroshima behind you [emoji598][emoji297]️[emoji598][emoji297][emoji598]️[emoji297]️no ABS light in the cab, pretty sure that’s a load sensor issue. (Another one I’m refusing to take out, VOSA would have a field day !)

Honked-
No Glowing Star, sorry, as I said earlier, it’s not due MOT until August & I don’t reckon it’s seen a spanner since last August, it’s just a Knackered Old Trailer, on its last legs, ready for the scrap yard or Africa.

Thanks for all the advice.

The unit is displaying as an ABS fault but I would say the whole trailer electronic system is out of action and you are driving it on emergency pneumatic redundancy which gives the very basic emergency operation of full tank pressure braking with no load sensing or ABS - again despite what Bking is saying it is the absence of the load-sensing and not ABS that is causing the locking up empty.

That’s what I was thinking, the Lecky Box/Brain, but it’s probably expensive & management won’t want to spend any more pennies on it.
They brought 10 New Montracon Trailers last year. I was hoping that they would get rid of the older trailers, as they seem to be getting worse by the day, especially as they’re Dragged up & down the road by Monkeys who don’t give a Stuff what condition they park them up without defecting them.
(As stated in the o/p this Monkey won’t be taking this Dinosaur out again)

What load sensing valve its bloody air suspension!

The ride height valve sets the “ride height”

The more weight you put on the trailer the higher pressure there has to be in the bags to maintain “ride height”

This pressure is monitored by the trailer control valve

This then applies the correct brake system pressure.

Any vehicle with air bags cannot have a lsv for christs sake.

Bking:
What load sensing valve its bloody air suspension!

The ride height valve sets the “ride height”

The more weight you put on the trailer the higher pressure there has to be in the bags to maintain “ride height”

This pressure is monitored by the trailer control valve

This then applies the correct brake system pressure.

Any vehicle with air bags cannot have a lsv for christs sake.

The pressure is not monitored by the ‘trailer control valve’ this is not on the trailer, as you seem to think, a trailer control valve lives on the tractor unit.

The pressure is monitored by the load sensing valve (LSV) on a 2001 pre EBS trailer. On newer trailers the LSV function is contained within the EBS modulator and is monitored electronically.

Virtually every trailer made between nineties and 2001 had a load sensing valve connected to the suspension air bag pressure.

Here’s something you need ‘basic’ training have a quick read of this before sharing more of your mechanical ‘experience’.

inform.wabco-auto.com/intl/pdf/8 … 573-16.pdf

Isn’t Norb who posts on here a fitter? What does he have to say? BKing seems to know the square root of ■■■■ all. Never mind all his bloody mindedness over the runaway Diesel engines lol!

Internet fight.jpg
popcorn.jpg

It’s a fight that’s a repeat of one two years ago and still 95% of Bking’s posts are made up ■■■■■■■■ including a dedicated thread where just about every person that has ever laid a spanner on a truck diesel engine, in the country, stopped by to confirm he was talking crap.

viewtopic.php?t=95976&p=1407451

If you’ve got a problem with your truck and you can’t find anyone else to fix it, post it here, and Bking can be guaranteed to pop along and give you an angry outburst of made up ■■■■■■■■ and assorted jargon.

He’s like a sort of incompetent A-Team with Tourettes.

Own Account Driver:
He’s like a sort of incompetent A-Team with Tourettes.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

martinviking:
Today I’ve been stitched up with trailer 26, it’s an M&G Curtain Sider, 2005 (10 years old) connected to my tractor-MAN TGX 26-440, 2013, 2 years old)

The ABS Light has been on all day (I know I should have left it in the yard, but I had a 10.00 drop in South Wales)
On the way back/empty, some of the wheels were
locking up.

When I get back to the yard I will park it up & refuse to take it out again, until it is fixed (PROPERLY !) our resident fitter will argue that they are not Compatible with each other & it’s not a problem !
My argument will be
“I wonder how VOSA/DVSA/GESTAPO will view it & my licence for taking a known defected trailer out on the road”

Question is-
Is our Fitter talking Sense, or is it BS ?

Some Trailer have 2 ABS Sockets for different ABS Cables. If your Cable fitts ABS shall work. Otherwise Trailer Brake is always on “Full Loaded” NOT Roadworthy.
Its “The Driver”.not the Fitter!

Honked:
Brakes locking up can be due to mot brakes :wink:
Fitters increase the pressure to achieve braking performance

Its the Computer holding the Brake on “Full”,not the Fitter.
The Driver shall know if ABS Cable fitts,and doing a Brake Test before going onto the Road.
Office shall have a List which Trailer not hock up to which Unit. But then,If your Office buys Trucks and Trailers which dont fit together have anywhy a look for another Company.

ABS can work on his own.It only needs the Power. Just use a Minus and Break-Light as Plus on your second Trailer Cable.
Hads to use that on my 320 DAF when we got the New Koegel Trailers.

Immigrant:
ABS can work on his own.It only needs the Power. Just use a Minus and Break-Light as Plus on your second Trailer Cable.
Hads to use that on my 320 DAF when we got the New Koegel Trailers.

So this numb skull just grabs a feed and some ground,stuffs em into an ISO socket and hey presto we got abs!

Tell you what Martin follow the advise of these muppets on here and you will have a ,shall we say,interesting day out on the road.

Good luck.

Own Account Driver:
Bkings like a sort of incompetent A-Team with Tourettes.

:laughing: :laughing: Classic. I’ve had a ruck in the past on here with him, and he has let’s say a…unique style about him. He’s a bit like me in a way, in respect of him not suffering fools, but 10x worse than me. In fact he thinks EVERYBODY is a fool…except himself.
However when it comes to technical mechanical knowledge I would not argue with him, as he does seem to know his stuff …It’s just the way he imparts it that leaves a lot to be desired :smiley: and to be fair his Tourettes is improving, I haven’t heard a ■■■■ or a ■■■■ or even a ■■■■ ■■■■ off him for ages :laughing:

robroy:

Own Account Driver:
Bkings like a sort of incompetent A-Team with Tourettes.

:laughing: :laughing: Classic. I’ve had a ruck in the past on here with him, and he has let’s say a…unique style about him. He’s a bit like me in a way, in respect of him not suffering fools, but 10x worse than me. In fact he thinks EVERYBODY is a fool…except himself.
However when it comes to technical mechanical knowledge I would not argue with him, as he does seem to know his stuff …It’s just the way he imparts it that leaves a lot to be desired :smiley: and to be fair his Tourettes is improving, I haven’t heard a [zb] or a [zb] or even a [zb] [zb] off him for ages :laughing:

Oh dear I will have to work on my “bedside manner”

Thought the folk on here wanted information not third hand driver BS.

If you read a load of bollox from some self professed “expert”
And we all know the "experts"on here dont we,

Then tell them they are talking crap.Or will that "upset " them.

Couldn’t care less about the posting style it’s the technical innacuracy/made up ■■■■■■■■/bits you’ve randomly typed out from your City & Guilds textbook and don’t really understand.

The problem is people might find your posts from google and end up the garden path.

You might take a few in with attempts to blind with science and jargon (the majority of which is incorrect) but those of us who are genuinely in or have a background in commercial vehicle repair all know you are a fraud/fantasist.

Have you drafted your rant to Wabco yet, that they’re ‘talking crap’ as that link clearly shows load sensing valves plumb into suspension air bags?

Or I do I need go into the yard and take a picture of one in situ?

Bking:

Immigrant:
ABS can work on his own.It only needs the Power. Just use a Minus and Break-Light as Plus on your second Trailer Cable.
Hads to use that on my 320 DAF when we got the New Koegel Trailers.

So this numb skull just grabs a feed and some ground,stuffs em into an ISO socket and hey presto we got abs!

Tell you what Martin follow the advise of these muppets on here and you will have a ,shall we say,interesting day out on the road.

Good luck.

Well Honked, who I would guess is a driver and not involved in the repair side, made a much better diagnosis in the right area than you.

You thought there was just an ABS problem rather than a total shutdown of the trailer EBS system with it just operating on the severely limited pneumatic redundancy back-up EBS offers.

Own Account Driver:
Couldn’t care less about the posting style it’s the technical innacuracy/made up ■■■■■■■■/bits you’ve randomly typed out from your City & Guilds textbook and don’t really understand.

The problem is people might find your posts from google and end up the garden path.

You might take a few in with attempts to blind with science and jargon (the majority of which is incorrect) but those of us who are genuinely in or have a background in commercial vehicle repair all know you are a fraud/fantasist.

Have you drafted your rant to Wabco yet, that they’re ‘talking crap’ as that link clearly shows load sensing valves plumb into suspension air bags?

Or I do I need go into the yard and take a picture of one in situ?

So where is the picture?