Pushed to break rules

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

DearBoy:

Own Account Driver:
The fact is the average driver doesn’t stick to 40mph on SCs, regardless what the law says and if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

You’ll find plenty of support on here as it’s infested with ‘doing it by the book’ wannabee Territorial VOSA/Traffic Police Special Constables and finger wagging road safety drama queens. However, this is far from a reflection of reality as the only drivers I consistently come across sticking to 40mph on SCs, and not going flat out on DCs, are supermarket trolley dollies. Therefore, if you feel you need to spend your life sticking religiously to the rules this would be the job you should be looking to get into.

Oki Doki, you’re entitled to your opinion - here’s mine…

If I choose to drive faster than the law allows for whatever reason then that is my decision, my risk and I will take the consequences of my actions if I am caught. Same goes for tipping on break.

Being expected to do either or both of these as an operational requirement in order to do a shift ‘legally’ is a massively different proposition that is unacceptable to me and being financially penalised for not playing managements brownie point winning, cost cutting games is out of order.

Wherever you work, excluding supermarkets and a handful of others, driving in the way you would like to is going to result in you being slower to complete runs than the average driver there. Anyone with two eyes in their head can see it is only a minority of drivers that stick to 40mph (and whether this is a righteous minority, or more likely a self-righteous minority, depends on your world view).

Bear in mind if you go toddling off to VOSA that hauliers speak to each other and you may find work difficult to obtain locally. Go to an employment tribunal and the chairman of it is unlikely to be familiar with haulage and it may be easy for the employer to portray you as lazy. Colleagues often make all sorts of noises about supporting you if you take it to tribunal but generally decide it’s not in their interest when push comes to shove.

The only two, realistic, options are to either adapt yourself to the culture there or change job to one with a different culture that suits. Money doesn’t grow on trees in road haulage but drivers do.

All the other options, always freely offered by blowhards, of ‘I’d tell them to do one, smack the TM in the gob’ or ‘get on to VOSA and embark on a personal crusade to bring this rogue operator to book’ will get you nowhere in the long run. No-one can tolerate working in an atmosphere where they’re not wanted long-term and assuming you could get VOSA interested the employer’s not going to turn round to you and say ‘yes you were right we’ve seen the error of our ways we’re going to make ■■■■ sure everyone potters around at 40mph like you’ - for VOSA, I doubt it’s exactly a rare occurence to have a disgruntled ex-employee on to them and if the operator’s green light they may ignore it altogether.

42

From the fact that you have mentioned “HR” I’d make a guess that this is not some tin-pot outfit. Unless of course HR is actually the owner’s brother or just some other sham to make things look right. Only you will know that. So as you have already mentioned thinking about it, then go to see HR, if this is a reasonable sized company and HR has any clout (however useless the general opinion here may be) then there is a fair chance of convincing them that the manager(s) are exceeding their authority. Presumably it was HR to whom the managers applied for their own jobs. If there is a proper HR department there should also be a grievance and a disciplinary procedure. Refusing to pay your overtime does not fit in with the way things are supposed to be done from a disciplinary point of view. You should have been given a verbal or written warning for “time wasting” so make them do so; with the reasons you say they have given. Then enter a grievance demanding they prove their assertions. If these vehicles are tracked, some systems are capable of not only producing a GPS trace, but also indicating the speed of the vehicle.

Whether this does you any good or not is up to you to decide.

Meanwhile start looking. And think about joining a Union.

43

Own Account Driver:

Muckaway:
OAD, I’d love the luxury of “a forkie unloading whilst I’m on break,” but in my case to save time I’d be carrying a tonne upstairs for my 45. Just so I can have the luxury of a 12 hour day.

If I was an employed driver I wouldn’t put it on break for handball/genuine unloading work either, most likely. If it was a job where a large part was sitting on the motorway on cruise control. that’s pushing the definition of work, then maybe I’d put it on break also.

So basically you are admitting that you don’t actually do any work for most of the day then? Which means that you wouldn’t expect to be paid either?

44

It is also part of there o licence conditions to provide true and accurate routing so if they are planning your work load and it isn’t achievable with out breaking the speed limit there may loose there o licence if they get caught

45

DearBoy:

Own Account Driver:
The fact is the average driver doesn’t stick to 40mph on SCs, regardless what the law says and if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

You’ll find plenty of support on here as it’s infested with ‘doing it by the book’ wannabee Territorial VOSA/Traffic Police Special Constables and finger wagging road safety drama queens. However, this is far from a reflection of reality as the only drivers I consistently come across sticking to 40mph on SCs, and not going flat out on DCs, are supermarket trolley dollies. Therefore, if you feel you need to spend your life sticking religiously to the rules this would be the job you should be looking to get into.

Oki Doki, you’re entitled to your opinion - here’s mine…

If I choose to drive faster than the law allows for whatever reason then that is my decision, my risk and I will take the consequences of my actions if I am caught. Same goes for tipping on break.

Being expected to do either or both of these as an operational requirement in order to do a shift ‘legally’ is a massively different proposition that is unacceptable to me and being financially penalised for not playing managements brownie point winning, cost cutting games is out of order.

This ^^^^^^

Incidentally Own Account Driver - is that what you’d tell plod/VOSA/The Beak when you get done for 56 in a 40 on a S/C road? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

(They won’t agree, bet ya life) :laughing: :laughing:

46

Truckulent:

DearBoy:

Own Account Driver:
The fact is the average driver doesn’t stick to 40mph on SCs, regardless what the law says and if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

You’ll find plenty of support on here as it’s infested with ‘doing it by the book’ wannabee Territorial VOSA/Traffic Police Special Constables and finger wagging road safety drama queens. However, this is far from a reflection of reality as the only drivers I consistently come across sticking to 40mph on SCs, and not going flat out on DCs, are supermarket trolley dollies. Therefore, if you feel you need to spend your life sticking religiously to the rules this would be the job you should be looking to get into.

Oki Doki, you’re entitled to your opinion - here’s mine…

If I choose to drive faster than the law allows for whatever reason then that is my decision, my risk and I will take the consequences of my actions if I am caught. Same goes for tipping on break.

Being expected to do either or both of these as an operational requirement in order to do a shift ‘legally’ is a massively different proposition that is unacceptable to me and being financially penalised for not playing managements brownie point winning, cost cutting games is out of order.

This ^^^^^^

Incidentally Own Account Driver - is that what you’d tell plod/VOSA/The Beak when you get done for 56 in a 40 on a S/C road? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

(They won’t agree, bet ya life) :laughing: :laughing:

I wouldn’t say anything I would accept the points and fine. If I had been caught doing more than 40mph on a SC it’s against the law end of.

47

I would find another job without sounding too dramatic if you kill someone it would be a case of we told you so and could you do the prison time.

48

if it done legally it cant be done
no one doing a multi drop run the first time will be as quick as the regular driver

49

Own Account Driver:
The fact is the average driver doesn’t stick to 40mph on SCs, regardless what the law says and if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

You’ll find plenty of support on here as it’s infested with ‘doing it by the book’ wannabee Territorial VOSA/Traffic Police Special Constables and finger wagging road safety drama queens. However, this is far from a reflection of reality as the only drivers I consistently come across sticking to 40mph on SCs, and not going flat out on DCs, are supermarket trolley dollies. Therefore, if you feel you need to spend your life sticking religiously to the rules this would be the job you should be looking to get into.

:wink:

50

Own Account Driver:
if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

I’m paid a reasonably decent hourly rate but all breaks are deducted. Why on earth would I be on duty supervising and helping to tip, reload and secure my vehicle for free?

Incredibly, I have colleagues like the OPs driver X, Y and Z who seem determined to contribute to the bosses new Range Rover fund. My productivity is equal to theirs (if not better) and I don’t finish the week moaning and stressed looking like I’ve slept in my clothes for three days.

If you think that running yourself ragged to impress a junior traffic clerk isn’t endangering road safety that’s fine by me.

Just don’t expect me to join in (I’ll be having lunch in Tebay…)

W

51

AlexWignall:

Own Account Driver:
if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

I’m paid a reasonably decent hourly rate but all breaks are deducted. Why on earth would I be on duty supervising and helping to tip, reload and secure my vehicle for free?

Incredibly, I have colleagues like the OPs driver X, Y and Z who seem determined to contribute to the bosses new Range Rover fund. My productivity is equal to theirs (if not better) and I don’t finish the week moaning and stressed looking like I’ve slept in my clothes for three days.

If you think that running yourself ragged to impress a junior traffic clerk isn’t endangering road safety that’s fine by me.

Just don’t expect me to join in (I’ll be having lunch in Tebay…)

W

I cannot believe companies are not paying drivers for their law enforced breaks, what is the world coming to :unamused:

52

JLS Driver SOS:
cannot believe companies are not paying drivers for their law enforced breaks, what is the world coming to :unamused:

Whats it to you?

When I’m on a break I stop and get my lunch, I know I’m not legally obliged to do that but it’s what I prefer. Unfortunately in my experience, the firm’s that pay you for your breaks tend to get upset if you do that sort of thing.

There is three largish Companies in my area advertising for drivers, all of them pay for breaks, I can’t say I’ll be applying for a job at any of them any time soon.

W

53

JLS Driver SOS:

AlexWignall:

Own Account Driver:
if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

I’m paid a reasonably decent hourly rate but all breaks are deducted. Why on earth would I be on duty supervising and helping to tip, reload and secure my vehicle for free?

Incredibly, I have colleagues like the OPs driver X, Y and Z who seem determined to contribute to the bosses new Range Rover fund. My productivity is equal to theirs (if not better) and I don’t finish the week moaning and stressed looking like I’ve slept in my clothes for three days.

If you think that running yourself ragged to impress a junior traffic clerk isn’t endangering road safety that’s fine by me.

Just don’t expect me to join in (I’ll be having lunch in Tebay…)

W

I cannot believe companies are not paying drivers for their law enforced breaks, what is the world coming to :unamused:

Why should anyone get paid for not working?

54

Sounds like there’s a culture of belting round to fit all the work in as quickly as possible.

It just happens like that at some places, though there’s usually a carrot for the donkey in some form of bonus to make it worth their while.

Look the way i’ve always done the job is to set my stall out from day one, i do the job as well as i can but right and look after the equipment too, i freely admit i don’t stick rigidly to 40 as it
A, boring enough to put you to sleep
B, encourages suicidal overtakes by incompetent drivers putting everyone at risk including me.
if i get nicked above 40 then i pay the fine and accept the points, its just one of those things.

The thing is that all drivers are different, some take a short term view over things like job and knock (or salaried work for averaged hours), others like me take a long term view tempered by experience, keep it steady but manageable.

If you push as hard as possible to gain some time out of job and knock the company invariably build a picture of who can do what journeys in what times.

When in due course the job changes and they shift the goal posts and you suddenly find yourself on hourly pay, then they’ll still expect the same journey times and have pages of ‘evidence’ to back up your normal working practices, almost impossible to back pedal then, or they’ll simply pile more work on you as you can obviously manage it…willing donkeys get the biggest workloads.

As a rule however you are paid if you work at your own steady pace which you can keep up for ever then you won’t go far wrong, don’t take the P out of the job and don’t belt round like a numpty for brownie points, when it all goes pear shaped they won’t be backing you up.

Being in the middle is best, head below parapet so it don’t get shot off, don’t be billy whizz but don’t eke the job out to an obvious extent.

Common sense in everything.

55

^^^^^^^^^^^^ this hits the nail squarely on the head ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

56

DearBoy:

Wheel Nut:
It might be interesting for you to post your digital printouts for a week, removing any identification of you or your company of course.

Shame I can’t get my mitts on a printout of the other guys shift, Thing is I don’t want to drop him or anyone else in the ■■■. I couldn’t give a rat’s ■■■ how they work. I am bothered that I’m getting shafted for doing things by the book on a run that is blatantly planned over 9 hours legal driving.

Cant you do a tacho print out of the truck he was in. I can do it on my tacho, doesnt show drivers details but shows the truck movements.

Showed the agency driver doing a 5.12h hour drive without 45 and a 10.17 hour day.

Good luck

57

JLS Driver SOS:

AlexWignall:

Own Account Driver:
if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

I’m paid a reasonably decent hourly rate but all breaks are deducted. Why on earth would I be on duty supervising and helping to tip, reload and secure my vehicle for free?

Incredibly, I have colleagues like the OPs driver X, Y and Z who seem determined to contribute to the bosses new Range Rover fund. My productivity is equal to theirs (if not better) and I don’t finish the week moaning and stressed looking like I’ve slept in my clothes for three days.

If you think that running yourself ragged to impress a junior traffic clerk isn’t endangering road safety that’s fine by me.

Just don’t expect me to join in (I’ll be having lunch in Tebay…)

W

I cannot believe companies are not paying drivers for their law enforced breaks, what is the world coming to :unamused:

Most companies Ive worked for didn`t pay for breaks. Current company does.

Working an unpaid break means your working for FREE!!!

I don`t work for free and never will!!! Drivers need to get a backbone.

58

truckerjimbo:
Drivers need to get a backbone.

That should have been the second and final post of this thread.

Whistleblowing on your mates does nothing, it certainly doesn’t keep you in a secure job

59

truckerjimbo:

JLS Driver SOS:

AlexWignall:

Own Account Driver:
if it’s just curtain opening for a forkie I don’t really see why people get so worked up about tipping on breaks - although a lot of this is about drivers thinking driving breaks means them freely disposing of their time or a canteen, they don’t really think it’s a threat to road safety.

I’m paid a reasonably decent hourly rate but all breaks are deducted. Why on earth would I be on duty supervising and helping to tip, reload and secure my vehicle for free?

Incredibly, I have colleagues like the OPs driver X, Y and Z who seem determined to contribute to the bosses new Range Rover fund. My productivity is equal to theirs (if not better) and I don’t finish the week moaning and stressed looking like I’ve slept in my clothes for three days.

If you think that running yourself ragged to impress a junior traffic clerk isn’t endangering road safety that’s fine by me.

Just don’t expect me to join in (I’ll be having lunch in Tebay…)

W

I cannot believe companies are not paying drivers for their law enforced breaks, what is the world coming to :unamused:

Most companies Ive worked for didn`t pay for breaks. Current company does.

Working an unpaid break means your working for FREE!!!

I don`t work for free and never will!!! Drivers need to get a backbone.

correct and every eighth day you do it youve given the company a days work for free !

60

But there is always two sides to a story.
Like some bone idle sobs(and we all know a few dont we) who toss it off all day long and as where I work,they sit outside a drop for 2/3 hours do a twenty minute delivery then pull out and “need” a 45 minute break!

As with any job there are some useless pillocks who,if they worked for you,would be out the door the first day.

A fair days pay for a fair days work but you always get the prick who wants more on either side.The problem is,is that if you see some toe rag getting the same pay for doing sod all while you do the job as it should be done and you end up thinking why the ■■■■ should I care?

Then we all end up out of a job cause some crap company like stobarts will do it for nothing by paying its drivers the minimum wage.