Proxy servers feedback thread

Good for you,

Didnt realise you were the one spamming the membership registrations with ■■■■■■ links

As I am sure you are aware there are 1000’s of anonymous proxy servers out there and getting a list of everyone would be impossible, so the next best thing is to create a system that identifies proxy servers that are being used on on server, verify them and then ban them, a lot less time consuming, and the spammers do the work for us…
I dont say the sysyem is perfect and every anonymous proxy server that visits this website will get picked up on, but I do hope that over time it will start to make a difference.

Seems like a long winded & possibly futile way of solving this problem…

Surely it would be easier to prevent new members from joining using free web based email accounts such as hotmail & require them to use their ISP provided mail addy? If all new registrations are vetted by admin it’s very easy to check.

The problem with that approach, which we looked at, is many drivers use web based e-mails to check mails while on the road.

The system in place is easy now its set up, and in time will collect a large number of anonymous proxy address.
the spammers are interested in getting as many registrations as possible in the shortest amount of time onto member lists,
By making them (after a while) reconfigure their connection to get onto our registration lists they will hopefully go elsewhere where it is easier and less time consuming.

It is certainly less labour intensive than the current system on manually checking each new registration and making a judgement on wether they are a spammer or just someone who wants to use an unusual username…

We are also looking at implementing a system to combat the spambots, this involves making the URL section invisible on the webpage when you register, the spam bots will try to input a URL automatically and their registration will fail
This will not affect human visitors as they will not see a box to put the URL into.

Those rejected registrations also will have their IP logged and added to the list

This will probably not get implemented until the new year…

One final thing we are doing…

RBI has now a large number of forum websites, in 2008 we will be starting a project to move the complete TruckNet UK website (including all data and membership details) onto a custom built framework, adapted from others already in use within RBI.
It will have all the facilities this one has, along with added extras (Image galleries/file uploading etc)
Being off the open source phpBB platform means it will reduce largely the amount of spammers finding us by using phpBB generic search terms.

To achieve the complete migration from this platform to a new one is a major investment in time , money and resources and will probably not happen quickly, but it is coming !!

Rikki-UK:
The problem with that approach, which we looked at, is many drivers use web based e-mails to check mails while on the road.

Fair comment, but…

Once registered with trucknet using a ISP provided mail address they are free to carry on using web based accounts when on the road, this won’t prevent them from logging into trucknet as they have previously registered with their “real” email.

I just think that the approach you have chosen is the least effective way of dealing with this… but you’re in charge

But the floor in your thinking is that you will also prevent the people who youwant to use the site from entering.

As I said, there are many different reasons why people use proxy’s not just the reason you have outlined (to bypass a ban etc).

All that will happen is that you end up with the same problems that companies like spamhaus cause, they block so called spam ip addresses but are always at least 1 step behind the spammers and then normally prevent legitimate people from sending email and block their ip address just because it is from the same range of addresses, even though they had nothing to do with it!!!

As I said, it is a futile attempt - in actual fact I think you posted more to try and scare either the spammers or those using proxies and multiple log on’s, because it has little chance of working.

Last night I had the choice of at least 500 different ip addresses I could have used, this morning I have a similar number to choose from, these change on a daily basis, so very rarely will there be an overlap of ip address, I use firefox as a browser and have an extension that allows me to use the proxy or change it with the click of a button in the browser window - very easy, I can even tell what address I am posting from (this is being made from my own ip address not a masked one), these proxy’ s are not big servers, they are just normal users who allow pass through on their systems, there is not a hope in hell that you will be able to block all these ip addresses, so thats why you are either mis informed on the effectiveness of it or you are using it as a scare tactic.

As for if you decided to block web based email like hotmail etc you will be blocking a lot of members, and to be honest most spammers do not use these types of emails, they hijack/impersonate legitimate domains. And if people really ant to use multiple log ons that is easy, personally I have more then 6 domains registerd and can have unlimited email addresses at them all, this would leave you with a lot of work to do if I should so choose to play silly games, and I am fairly sure I would be one step ahead most of the way - thats not being big headed, that’s just the nature of this type of thing, you can only ban once you know where they are, and you cant do that till they have posted!!!

Just making more work for yourselves without achieving your goals.

this would leave you with a lot of work to do if I should so choose to play silly games, and I am fairly sure I would be one step ahead most of the way -

This actually leaves me with very little to do, a couple of mouse clicks a day…

And if anyone really wants to put spam links on this websites membership list they will find a way to do so, however it is known the harder you make it for them to do so, the more likely it is they will go and find an easier website to do it too.

The system is not foolproof, none ever are, but sooner or later some of those spammers will get tired on constantly having to change IP’s just to get on here

I’m coming into all this a little late, and only as an outside observer insofar as I’ve been away up the road all week and no longer deal with administrative nitty-gritty like this anyway (thank [zb]… )…

I’ve read the thread and am now up to speed - bearing in mind here folks that I don’t bother getting any of this stuff blow-by-blow from Rik through the week any more than he hears about every air leak and blown bulb, it’s on that level classed as day to day work crap and therefore too boring to waste mobile minutes on - and whilst I am not technically minded enough to have any idea whether this will achieve the reduction in spammers that is hoped for, I can see where the logic lies and fair plays to him if he wants to give it a shot.

The one thing that I don’t understand is why the hell anyone else cares? If you’re not after selling huge quantities of badly manufactured ■■■■■■, don’t think it would stop you circumventing a ban if that was made harder as a side-effect of the policy, and are convinced it won’t work anyway, what’s the problem?

Sorry, I’m just at a loss here. Although it does illustrate rather neatly precisely why I don’t ask about this stuff any more…I can feel myself glazing over and preparing counter discussions about the potholes in our yard and how the friendly neighbourhood concrete people are in again this week filling them and how it’s a waste of time with a 70t stacker running round on it and zzzzzzzz…

Lucy:
and whilst I am not technically minded enough to have any idea whether this will achieve the reduction in spammers that is hoped for, I can see where the logic lies and fair plays to him if he wants to give it a shot.

The one thing that I don’t understand is why the hell anyone else cares? If you’re not after selling huge quantities of badly manufactured ■■■■■■, don’t think it would stop you circumventing a ban if that was made harder as a side-effect of the policy, and are convinced it won’t work anyway, what’s the problem?

I don’t think anyone is criticising Rikki, certainly not me & I agree, if he wants to do this then good luck… I hope it works.

As for the “why anyone cares” point… most don’t! But this is a discussion forum & the thread was left open for comments, if you leave a thread open expect comments from those interested in the subject

One question… is this measure being implemented to combat scammers or previously banned members?

One question… is this measure being implemented to combat scammers or previously banned members?

The aim of the exercise is too reduce the workload on the admin team…
the measures should have an effect on the amount of spam registrations they have to delete, if as a by product it makes life more difficult for previously banned members to continue to try to disrupt the board that is a bonus we can certainly live with.

As was pointed out , stopping banned members from posting via anonymous proxies is virtually as impossible as stopping determined spammers…
but no point in making life easy for them either

Lucy:
any more than he hears about every air leak and blown bulb,

Your own fault for driving an Iveco I’m afraid

Lucy:
The one thing that I don’t understand is why the hell anyone else cares?

Simply because those who know anything about proxy’s and use them will get round what is trying to be achieved, those who don’t know about them but may very well still be behind one will find themselves unable to use the site - which seems counter productive - stop those you want using the site, and those you want to stop will still be able to - cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.

The fact you publicised it just makes it worse!!!

Do you really think spammers read the contents of the forums ?

as was said in the post we can see no vaild reason for using an anonymous proxy to connect to TruckNet UK’s servers, If people are using the website in good faith, and with no intention to spam, then they have no reason to mask their ISP IP address. If there is a routing problem then there are many more proxies that allow routing without masking the originating IP ( Many ISP’s use proxies anyway).

So far out of the 3 enquiries recieved about this…
One was not using a proxy
One was using a business ISP proxy which didnt mask the originating IP address
and One wanted to know how to check if they were using a proxy.

There is no drop in the number of page views since the proxy IP ban started to be introduced compared to the same times of the last few weeks.

So it is not having any significant effect on the members using the website for the purpose it was intended.

smcaul:

Lucy:
any more than he hears about every air leak and blown bulb,

Your own fault for driving an Iveco I’m afraid

Lucy:
The one thing that I don’t understand is why the hell anyone else cares?

Simply because those who know anything about proxy’s and use them will get round what is trying to be achieved, those who don’t know about them but may very well still be behind one will find themselves unable to use the site - which seems counter productive - stop those you want using the site, and those you want to stop will still be able to - cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.

The fact you publicised it just makes it worse!!!

laughable would be my choice of words stu.
making ones self look a wotsit would be another.

Yet!

But as you said you will be adding to this list.

What about AOL users, you know AOL use a very different system to most ISP’s if you get a spammer from them are you going to ban the AOL IP address? if so you will end up stopping quite a few members I would imagine.

And as for the repeated comment of “you can see no reason why anyone would use a proxy” I think that is a very silly and selfish remark - it is not for you to decide why someone does things the way they do, why I use a proxy (at times) is my own private business - it is not yet illegal to do so and the use of them is getting more prevalent not less as more and more people wish to remain anonymous.

In fact I could turn the question around and ask why you need to know what IP address or ISP your members are using, what information are you gathering about them, how do you intend to use this information in the future now that you are a commercial site? Are you using it to sell? Are you using it to map your membership database to possibly sell on? Just a couple of questions that you might want to answer, assuming you know the answers and have not been given a load of spam by your IT dept!!

what information are you gathering about them, how do you intend to use this information in the future now that you are a commercial site? Are you using it to sell? Are you using it to map your membership database to possibly sell on?

Unlike some websites we have a very clear policy on the privacy of the data we hold, (published on the website) and are registered (as you have to be) under the data protection act. so that stops those worries

it is not for you to decide why someone does things the way they do,

True, but it is for us to decide if we want anonymous proxies to connect to our server.

What about AOL users

AOL is not an anonymous server so it is not affected

All ISP users in the UK are bound by their end user agreement with their provider, if a spammer was repeatedly using AOL to spam this website we would have the option of contacting their ISP provider. Most ISP providers have a very good reputation of withdrawing their service from people who break their end user agreement.

I think the question here to be really answered, on a website that is about as innocous a subject as truck driving, why would any one need to log/register on via an anonymous proxy.

Rikki-UK:
I think the question here to be really answered, on a website that is about as innocous a subject as truck driving, why would any one need to log/register on via an anonymous proxy.

Rather a sanctimonious comment there Rikki? But in answer to it because they want to, and have every right to do so. Why do you think that you can decide how someone wishes to connect the internet?

smcaul:

Rikki-UK:
I think the question here to be really answered, on a website that is about as innocous a subject as truck driving, why would any one need to log/register on via an anonymous proxy.

Rather a sanctimonious comment there Rikki? But in answer to it because they want to, and have every right to do so. Why do you think that you can decide how someone wishes to connect the internet?

Think about that statement for a moment…

You have A RIGHT to use Trucknet UK in any way you wish
Actually you dont,
The owners of this website can decide who they want to use it, in what fashion and when. use of ANY website is a privelage granted by the website owners not a right. You can connect to the internet in any you wish, but if you want to use our service and access our servers then you have to accept the limitations put upon you to do so.

If you dont accept the limitations of this website then you have a clear choice,of not using it.

Believe me, I thought about the statement, something that I am not sure you are doing!!!

Members signed up to a set of rules, over time those rules have changed, no one has been asked to re sign up each time the rules have changed have they?

I never said anyone has a right to use the site, what I said is that people have a right to connect to the internet however they wish, by its very commercial nature TN requires traffic for it to be viable, by putting in such measures you will limit that traffic (maybe not overnight, but then I did point out it was futile), but more importantly you are potentially limiting the traffic you require and the other traffic will continue.

It’s a silly attempt to stop certain posters, the email spam thing is just put there to try and cover tracks if you ask me, as you would not have needed to make a post about or publicise it if that was all you were doing - shooting ones own foot with this one Rikki, or hiding to nothing if you prefer!

If we implemented the scheme without telling anyone we were doing it, I wonder who would have been the first ones shouting about it?
There may be members for whatever reasons are using proxy servers at the moment (perhaps for viewing other websites, and dont usually log off them when they come to TruckNet UK) . So we posted as to what we are doing, and why.

As I said so far new valid registartions are the same as normal, page views are actually slightly up (no doubt this thread is contributing to that).

I do thank you for your concern over our traffic, but with a 50% increase over the last 12 months I dont think we have anything to worry about.

Well, well, well what an interesting read this has been . Very interesting to see exactly what levels people will resort to when backed into a corner and not getting there way [insert patronising Rikki-esque style smileys]

Whatever line your IT department are selling you about blocking things etc. trust me they are selling you a load of bull .

I am not going to add to the arguments as I believe, quite honestly, that it has been comprehensively above by Smcaul and others. Dress it up how you like with glib remarks and multitudes of smileys Rikki but it is obvious to all why this situation has come to be. In letting it get this far you have damaged the integrity of this site I don’t care about increased traffic etc etc as we all know that this is due to the ever increasing advertising of Trucknet in the Trucking press. People will come as a result but if this is what they find, will they stay ■■

Please don’t trot out your ever present defense of “if you don’t like it don’t use the site” to me

Last time I looked we still lived in a democratic society.

Remeber that all that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing
Therefore there will always be people who come on here to maintain balance. Or is that NOT what is required here ■■

If not, well I am happy with that too You could always ban me or my IP Well that’s what your IT dept say eh ■■

Get real Rikki, you know I have no concerns over your traffic, the only concern I have is valid users being blocked because of TN’s useless draconian measures!