Using a tried and tested formula. Appeal it on what ever grounds you think may win your case. You should still be able to apply the lower rate of £180 if the appeal fails (which it problaly will because the appeals board are part of the scam anyway). The best line of defense is concerned with the amount of ‘damages’ Pro Serve are claiming. In my opinion, it is clearly not a reasonable sum.
Of the two parking tickets I’ve got whilst driving a lorry, both were paid by the firm I was working for at the time. But, the amounts were considerably smaller.
I’d suggest it’s not only a reasonable sum - it is the actual amount that this trespass has cost the landowner. If you read the blurb on the document it clearly states that the £250 is the pre-agreed charge to the landowner by the parking enforcers - i.e. the fact that this lorry was stopped on that land (and photographed by the parking enforcers) has indeed resulted in the landowners suffering a loss of £250 as that’s what the enforcers charge them for taking the photo and processing the “ticket”.
That is a self inflicting loss. The landowner has contracted an enforcer to take photos of “offenders” so therefore the costs of the enforcer is the landowners liability.
Roymondo:
I’d suggest it’s not only a reasonable sum - it is the actual amount that this trespass has cost the landowner. If you read the blurb on the document it clearly states that the £250 is the pre-agreed charge to the landowner by the parking enforcers - i.e. the fact that this lorry was stopped on that land (and photographed by the parking enforcers) has indeed resulted in the landowners suffering a loss of £250 as that’s what the enforcers charge them for taking the photo and processing the “ticket”.
You’re quite…
Right, it’s not a fine, it’s an invoice.
I’d argue that it hasn’t cost £250 to generate the ticket. A digital image, attached to a pre-printed envelope, the registered keepers details obtained from the DVLA for tuppence h’apenny and sent out in the post.
As for what’s considered ‘reasonable’, that’s where your solicitor does all the arguing and I’m not a solicitor. The few cases that I’ve read about that were successful centered on incorrect details on the ticket and excessive charges being levied.
Then you have to ask yourself, is it worth all the agro, time and cost to fight it in the first place.
Most people ■■■■■ about it and pay the lesser charge. These firms business model is built around that and sadly, it’s a very effective one. Morally repugnant but a nice little earner.
To everyone that’s posted “this is not a fine” please add me to the list. It most definitely is not.
Over the years I have had dozens of these, both in personal capacity for cars and for my business (limited co) for cars and HGV;s.
They have been from shopping centre car parks, airports (mostly Liverpool), motorway services and other places that I cannot remember.
I have thrown all of them in the bin, received many, many, stupid letters dressed up as “fines” followed by letters from scummy quasi legal collection firms or sometimes supposedly real solicitors.
I may have been lucky, but…
None of it has come to anything.
I am now so far up on the deal that even if one of them pursued me properly and won it would make no difference.
There is a statute of limitations after which the claim cannot be pursued so eventually the stupid threats and letters stop. (think it’s about 5 years)
I appreciate as the owner of the firm it’s easy for me to take the chance but, imho your boss should, at the very least, be helping you with this.
If he has passed your name to the scummy collection firm I think he is morally wrong, legally I have no idea.
yourhavingalarf:
I’d argue that it hasn’t cost £250 to generate the ticket. A digital image, attached to a pre-printed envelope, the registered keepers details obtained from the DVLA for tuppence h’apenny and sent out in the post.
That’s my point - £250 is what it has cost the landowner - because he sub-contracted that out to ProServe or whoever who undertook to deal with the whole thing for £250 - and their service doubtless includes paying for a man and his van (and the running costs thereof, plus all the ancillary costs of employing him, providing PPE etc) to patrol and take the photos, and for someone to process the images and data, and make the enquiries of DVLA, and follow up with registered keepers, and deal with the resulting ■■■■■■■■■ of correspondence, and deal with the required record-keeping, then the same again with the drivers if and when they are identified. Now I’m not saying that this is in any way right morally defensible - what I am saying is that £250 is what it costs the landowner, so that’s the sum sought in damages for the trespass.
As an aside I’d note that although the estate in question is festooned with double yellow lines and lots of signs clearly stating that it is private property, no parking, no waiting and no stopping, there are also (again signed) parts of the estate where limited waiting is permitted.
The OP’s boss has probably received a letter entitled “Notice to keeper” otherwise known as an NTK, do NOT ignore this as they will want the boss to name the driver, and under no circumstances should the driver be named and should only be referred to in any correspondence as “the driver”. The boss has 14 days to appeal in which I strongly suggest that both of you should take advantage of the services of the guy I eluded to on the FB page earlier who charges a modest £10-£15 for his time.
Any letters from so called solicitors and debt collection agent such as DRP, Marstons etc who use frightening tactics can be ignored
Why they need to be ignored.
Debt Recovery Plus (Also using the name Zenith) are one of the main debt collection agencies for the private parking industry.
They operate in a defined way and that is to basically frighten people into paying up through their style of letters and what they say on the phone.
How do Debt Recovery Plus lie and intimidate people?
It’s quite simple they misquote a lot of information and quite literally lie to people. This seems to a pre requisite of their job role and the staff seem to have no qualms in behaving in such a nasty way
The misdemeanour’s of Debt Recovery Plus are as follows:
Giving incorrect information on court cases
Telling callers they are going to be taking legal action if they don’t pay.
Telling callers their file is being sent for legal action if they don’t pay
Being very rude and dismissive of people
Talking over people
Advising people they have no chance in court
Having letters signed by people who don’t actually work for Debt Recovery Plus
Making threats to people which they simply can’t carry out
They pass themselves off as Zenith (when it’s Debt Recovery Plus in disguise)
Pretending letters have been sent by Small Claims Solicitors (owned by LPC Law) when in fact the letters have been printed by Debt Recovery Plus themselves. Including committing signature fraud on their letters.
DRP have zero power to take anyone county court and work on 15% to 20% commission of all money collected
Please don`t panic if you receive a letter from DRP / ZENITH. ZZPS, or TNC. These clown companies have zero power.
Debt Recovery Plus (Also using the name Zenith) are one of the main debt collection agencies for the private parking industry. They operate in a defined way and that is to basically frighten people into paying up through their style of letters and what they say on the phone. How do Debt Recovery Plus lie and intimidate people? It’s quite simple they misquote a lot of information and quite literally lie to people. This seems to a pre requisite of their job role and the staff seem to have no qualms in behaving in such a nasty way The misdemeanour’s of Debt Recovery Plus are as follows: Giving incorrect information on court cases Telling callers they are going to be taking legal action if they don’t pay. Telling callers their file is being sent for legal action if they don’t pay Being very rude and dismissive of people Talking over people Advising people they have no chance in court Having letters signed by people who don’t actually work for Debt Recovery Plus Making threats to people which they simply can’t carry out They pass themselves off as Zenith (when it’s Debt Recovery Plus in disguise) Pretending letters have been sent by Small Claims Solicitors (owned by LPC Law) when in fact the letters have been printed by Debt Recovery Plus themselves. Including committing signature fraud on their letters. DRP have zero power to take anyone county court and work on 15% commission of all money collected
it’s only when they send out a letter marked “Letter before claim” or “Letter before county court”do things start to get serious and must not be ignored as they have 6 years to persue a claim and you end up with a CCJ by default
peirre:
it’s only when they send out a letter marked “Letter before claim” or “Letter before county court”do things start to get serious and must not be ignored as they have 6 years to persue a claim and you end up with a CCJ by default
All good advice but you will only get a CCJ by default if they actually lay their money down with the court to start the action and you don’t contest / reply to the court.
Of course before it goes to court you will receive correspondence from the court, not something that the scummy debt collectors / solicitors have faked up to look like it’s from the court.
If you do lose, but pay quickly I am pretty sure the CCJ is expunged very quickly or not put on at all.
Just to be clear about all this, for a council / parking warden / police “proper” fine then if you don’t cough up they pretty well get automatic judgement against you.
A few years ago we were loading equipment from the offices of a top solicitor in Manchester, event ran over so we were there almost in to rush hour and some angry copper slapped a parking ticket on the wagon as we were loading it. The senior partner of the firm just said “you pay it, just invoice us, the coppers wrong but it’s not worth the effort”
ferrymaster:
Hello all.
Has anyone else delivered onto ransomes industrial estate in Ipswich recently? There is a parking company operating on there giving out fines of £250!!! Just for stopping for like 2 minutes! See notice my boss gave me. I’ve covered up some info of my vehicle and company for personal reasons.
The boss then tells me ive to pay. What a joke!! Has anyone else had one of these cos not sure if its a scam?0
If my boss handed me one of these, I’d be telling them that they should have protected my identity, and either argued against the fine from the firm’s angle, or blanked it.
“Fines” should be only issued by the law, rather than any private contractor who greases the right palms…
WheelsofCardiff:
Where do you park when delivering.
In the service yard behind wren’s, halfrauds etc.
If you are delivering to B&Q etc your literally 20m-30m walk from their gate, where you can go and attract their attention to let them know that you are in the yard waiting and they’ll call you in when ready. However lots of drivers pull up along side of the fence, get out and spend 5-10 minutes trying to get the forkies attention, this is where they fall foul of the parking guy. If you do speak to the forkie, the 1st words out of his mouth will be “don’t stop here, go park in the service area up there”
Whenever I’m in the B&Q yard doing a delivery (and we’re there 5 days a week for a 10:30-11am booking) we’re in there at least 2hrs and more likely 3.5hrs recently because of the trainee forkie so get comfortable and wait, there’s a nice little cafe/takeaway on the other side of the fence in one of the units of the office village.
If anyone is going into the Debach warehouses the gate off the mini roundabout next to One Oceans office is no longer used, so you’ll end up spinning around and going back and turning left
stu675:
Why did you stop for 2 minutes?
If he turned left behind B&Q He either needed to visit one oceans office or was delivering to B&Q, everyone else drives straight on into the warehouses, only car transporters turn right into the John Gross compound
Whenever I read or hear about ■■■■ like this,.I always think the same thing…‘Wtf has happened to this job over the years’'…
We’ve had at least 80% of overnight parking places disappear since I started, now they are doing you for parking 2 minutes on a ■■■■ ind est,.what’s next ?..doing you for queuing for fuel, I mean ffs man
It’s getting like a challenge game, where every ■■■■ thing about doing the job properly is set against you and you have to solve the problems set in order to do the job.
Another thing I think is ‘No wonder there is a shortage of guys wanting to do this crap’’
ferrymaster:
Hello all.
Has anyone else delivered onto ransomes industrial estate in Ipswich recently? There is a parking company operating on there giving out fines of £250!!! Just for stopping for like 2 minutes! See notice my boss gave me. I’ve covered up some info of my vehicle and company for personal reasons.
The boss then tells me ive to pay. What a joke!! Has anyone else had one of these cos not sure if its a scam?0
If you genuinely only stopped for 2 mins then appeal it with a print of your tacho showing the length of time you stopped and an explanation that you had to stop to check on a tyre that looked slightly dodgy in the mirror.
No court in the world would allow a fine to stand because you stopped for a safety concern!
This is a winner comment, i would do this. Anyway charging 250 for stopping that’s day light robbery ok. 70 or 35 if paid within 7 days but blimey 250
For 250 itself even if u were In the wrong I’d appeal that’s not reasonable , if you get rejected I’d open a car park and anyone without a ticket I’d fine them for 1 million £ cause why not ? Law says I can
ferrymaster:
Hello all.
Has anyone else delivered onto ransomes industrial estate in Ipswich recently? There is a parking company operating on there giving out fines of £250!!! Just for stopping for like 2 minutes! See notice my boss gave me. I’ve covered up some info of my vehicle and company for personal reasons.
The boss then tells me ive to pay. What a joke!! Has anyone else had one of these cos not sure if its a scam?0
If my boss handed me one of these, I’d be telling them that they should have protected my identity, and either argued against the fine from the firm’s angle, or blanked it.
“Fines” should be only issued by the law, rather than any private contractor who greases the right palms…
My gaffer has not ID’d me to the trespass reptiles. He’s actually going to sort if for me thankfully. Looking a bit further into this, the trespass seems to be formed after breaching the terms of the licence to enter the land. Which technically is correct in law. The vast number of signs which are probably there will say you must not stop, and i stopped, so I’ve breached the terms of licence and therefore trespassed. (Even though it’s impossible to read such signs from a moving vehicle) The loss has been generated from a pre-existing agreement where Proserve charge for their time to deal with me. Again, I guess they are quite rightly allowed to do this.
However! And it’s a big however that could have serious implications on the space time continuum if not rectified in the very near future! Great Scott!! Whilst it may be ‘legally’ permissible. If every industrial estate operated this type of fiendish scheme to extort large sums from companies or owner drivers, we wouldn’t have much of a transport industry would we? When all said and done, such costs will inevitably by picked up by the humble consumer.
But as I mentioned, I stopped for 2 minutes and got charged £250 which I think is their hourly rate so next time I go, I’m gonna get my full 1 hours worth The only other thing I’ve spotted here, is that Proserve haven’t got the registered keeper deets of my truck from the DVLA. I’m sure they would need to be a member of the BPA or IPC to do that, which they are not! So they have simply relied on the company decals on my unit to make an assumption (albeit, the right one). So if I’m to believe that Ransomes are not in cahoots with Proserve on this, Ransomes are seriously being ripped off by Proserve because they can’t deal with unmarked, plain LGV’s and they don’t actually ask anyone to move. They just take a quick mobile phone picture! Nice work if you can get it.
So I think we should be uniting on this one and fighting for a proper parking company to take over.
I don’t use it.but I’d be tempted to shame.them.on Twitter seems.to work when.some company’s give bad service.
Or maybe take it. With teh mo for that area or local news. Radio stations etc…worth a try shaming them.
Or do one of thses online poll things where if gets so many votes parliament have to discuss it.
ferrymaster:
The only other thing I’ve spotted here, is that Proserve haven’t got the registered keeper deets of my truck from the DVLA. I’m sure they would need to be a member of the BPA or IPC to do that, which they are not! So they have simply relied on the company decals on my unit to make an assumption (albeit, the right one).
You are correct…
They are not members of the relevant associations.
‘As some of you may know, the British Parking Association have set a limit of £100 on private parking tickets. Proserve get around this by not being members of the BPA (or any Accredited Trade Association), so have not been bound by its rules. The only real reason parking companies are members of ATAs is to get access to the DVLA’s database of keepers (i.e. so they know who to chase for money). Proserve managed to get around the DVLA’s ATA membership requirement by claiming they only deal with cases of trespass, and not parking enforcement services.’
The only other thing I’ve spotted here, is that Proserve haven’t got the registered keeper deets of my truck from the DVLA. I’m sure they would need to be a member of the BPA or IPC to do that, which they are not! So they have simply relied on the company decals on my unit to make an assumption (albeit, the right one). So if I’m to believe that Ransomes are not in cahoots with Proserve on this, Ransomes are seriously being ripped off by Proserve because they can’t deal with unmarked, plain LGV’s and they don’t actually ask anyone to move. They just take a quick mobile phone picture! Nice work if you can get it.