With climate change politics, regulation, legislation and prohibition threatening the existence of the combustion engine in the near to medium future it looks as if there will be some big changes in our lifetimes. Among the first to fall will doubtless be the thousands of preserved motor vehicles on the show circuit. And among the first of those to be grounded will be the big diesels, because suitable fuel will no longer be available, because of legislation or because of both simultaneously.
This could happen within the next 20-30 years, if not a lot sooner. So what will become of all those lovingly preserved lorries? Will they become static displays? It would cost a fortune to build, stock, maintain and run motor museums on the scale of Leyland or Gaydon. Who will persuade business entrepreneurs to cough up the goodies and save our heritage?
ERF-NGC-European:
With climate change politics, regulation, legislation and prohibition threatening the existence of the combustion engine in the near to medium future it looks as if there will be some big changes in our lifetimes. Among the first to fall will doubtless be the thousands of preserved motor vehicles on the show circuit. And among the first of those to be grounded will be the big diesels, because suitable fuel will no longer be available, because of legislation of because of both simultaneously.
This could happen within the next 20-30 years, if not a lot sooner. So what will become of all those lovingly preserved lorries? Will they become static displays? It would cost a fortune to build, stock, maintain and run motor museums on the scale of Leyland or Gaydon. Who will persuade business entrepreneurs to cough up the goodies and save our heritage?
1
Both my pictures, taken at Gaydon.
Ro
Can these vehicles run on diesel made from cooking oils etc? The preservation boys (and girls) are quite inventive when push comes to shove so they might become their own fuel suppliers. Or will these fuels be banned as well?
ERF-NGC-European:
With climate change politics, regulation, legislation and prohibition threatening the existence of the combustion engine in the near to medium future it looks as if there will be some big changes in our lifetimes. Among the first to fall will doubtless be the thousands of preserved motor vehicles on the show circuit. And among the first of those to be grounded will be the big diesels, because suitable fuel will no longer be available, because of legislation of because of both simultaneously.
This could happen within the next 20-30 years, if not a lot sooner. So what will become of all those lovingly preserved lorries? Will they become static displays? It would cost a fortune to build, stock, maintain and run motor museums on the scale of Leyland or Gaydon. Who will persuade business entrepreneurs to cough up the goodies and save our heritage?
1
Both my pictures, taken at Gaydon.
Doubt most of this will happen in the majority of our lifetime sadly.
Ro
Can these vehicles run on diesel made from cooking oils etc? The preservation boys (and girls) are quite inventive when push comes to shove so they might become their own fuel suppliers. Or will these fuels be banned as well?
Guy Martin starred in an interesting programme about electric vehicles, his consensus was that if you drive 50miles a day, EV are perfect. He did a trip to John o Groats, it cost £240, his camera crew spent half that amount on dinosaur oil.
His final words were that the ICE would be around much longer but EV had their place.
The change to electric vehicles will be tax-incentivised, to cover the cost highlighted by Wheel Nut. Maybe there will be an exemption for vehicles not used commercially, like there is cheap insurance for preserved vehicles? “Proper” fuel will still be available- no way will aeroplanes get off the ground, with the hold full of batteries and, if a jet-powered fighter plane can blow a fuel cell-powered one out of the sky, then old-fashioned combustibles is what will power them.
Even if fuel becomes prohibitively expensive, the cargo space on a preserved lorry can carry a battery pack, and a motor can be mounted between the gearbox and axle. Such a device could exist now- battery assistance for vehicles old enough not to have the power for modern-day traffic conditions would make them more useable, with a suitable axle upgrade.
I’m probably being a little blinkered but I don’t foresee a big problem.
I do see massive changes for the current haulage industry which will obviously lead onto a potentially different way of future preservation for the electric/alternative fuelled vehicles but that isn’t really going to concern most of us…
There is a massive preservation scene for all things fossil powered so it won’t be allowed to wither and die. In the same way as the steam powered vehicles keep going with their almost cult-like status and the associated difficulties of running them, the fossil powered vehicles will remain. It will undoubtedly become more difficult, and expensive, to run them but they will remain. I’m sure the preservation movement will reduce in time but that will be led by older owners selling or scrapping vehicles and younger people embracing the then ‘new’ preservation possibilities of their own childhood… It is very much a generational thing but all the better for it…
If every vehicle was electric powered where would the electricity come from . The national grid couldnt cope. When we have our usual pile ups in thick fog and one of these electric cars catches fire god forbid it will cause carnage , these batteries burn at a much higher temperature. And if we are so set on zero emmissions will someone have a word with the pricks who manage the West Yorkshire stretch of the M62 "Smart Motorway " and tell them to stop putting speed restrictions up when there is no need , all that stop start causes more contamination to the atmosphere . If a leaf blows onto the M62 the 40mph speed limit comes on … rant over
According to the federation of historic vehicle clubs the sector is worth about £7 Billion to the economy. JCB have been running research for over 15 years into operating IC engines on hydrogen. The continuing loss of skills, technical information and spares is probably a greater threat.
ramone:
If every vehicle was electric powered where would the electricity come from . The national grid couldnt cope. When we have our usual pile ups in thick fog and one of these electric cars catches fire god forbid it will cause carnage , these batteries burn at a much higher temperature. And if we are so set on zero emmissions will someone have a word with the pricks who manage the West Yorkshire stretch of the M62 "Smart Motorway " and tell them to stop putting speed restrictions up when there is no need , all that stop start causes more contamination to the atmosphere . If a leaf blows onto the M62 the 40mph speed limit comes on … rant over
There will probably be enough electricity available over a 24 hour period to cope - certainly up here in Scotland. The problem is that we might not be able to cope with the peak period demands so there would need to be a huge incentive for charging your vehicle outwith the “peak”. I know that there is a proposal to build huge “battery warehouses” that will take the energy generated overnight and store it for use on a trickle down basis during the day but I can imagine the cries from the environmental lobby when the planning proposal for almighty stores in the middle of the highlands (or any other area that has a high proportion of wind farms) is submitted. Another alternative would be to create a large number of hydro reservoirs that get the water pumped up to them, again during the off-peak times. This could be achieved in Scotland and Wales due to our topography but might be more impractical for England - especially the south east.
It’s certainly going to be an interesting couple of decades ahead.
My original post asks the question about the future of preserved / old / heritage / museum piece / vintage / veteran lorries, rather than about mainstream traffic
ERF-NGC-European:
My original post asks the question about the future of preserved / old / heritage / museum piece / vintage / veteran lorries, rather than about mainstream traffic
When has any post on this forum ever stayed on point. Give it long enough and Godwins Law will come into force
ERF-NGC-European:
My original post asks the question about the future of preserved / old / heritage / museum piece / vintage / veteran lorries, rather than about mainstream traffic
As a collector/restorer/exhibitor of vintage stationary engines we have discussed this a few times and the concensus seems to be that eventually they will be just static exhibits as legislation will prevent their operation. A long way off yet though, and I doubt that it will affect me at my time of life! I believe the steam lads have similar concerns. Road vehicles can at least be transported to events and displayed if things do change, it makes no real difference to the general public if they are running or not. I have seen some nicely ‘restored’ trucks at shows over the years and have looked underneath to see what engine etc they have only to discover that there is nothing between the radiator grille and rear axle!
ramone:
If every vehicle was electric powered where would the electricity come from . The national grid couldnt cope. When we have our usual pile ups in thick fog and one of these electric cars catches fire god forbid it will cause carnage , these batteries burn at a much higher temperature. And if we are so set on zero emmissions will someone have a word with the pricks who manage the West Yorkshire stretch of the M62 "Smart Motorway " and tell them to stop putting speed restrictions up when there is no need , all that stop start causes more contamination to the atmosphere . If a leaf blows onto the M62 the 40mph speed limit comes on … rant over
They have knocked four cooling towers down at Eggborough. I heard locally they are going to build a large soundproof shed and fill it with diesel generators.
ERF-NGC-European:
My original post asks the question about the future of preserved / old / heritage / museum piece / vintage / veteran lorries, rather than about mainstream traffic
My point is that the authorities in one hand are saying go green but in the other aren’t practicing what they preach , so they may well decide that part of our history should be wiped out because of fumes but decide that they will control motorways with ever changing limits for no apparent reason causing more pollution than the Trans Pennine Run ever could but hey ho
I am more afraid what will happen with so much models like F88, AEC’s or 141’s, the youth go for younger models as the F16 even already FH.
I think lot’s will be scraped after us, pitty for men who have done so much work on it, but’s live.
You can’t compare the UK with Belgium or the Netherlands, but the youth don’t looks any more here to very old staff from the '50 '60’s and even the '70’s. And understand it, they have never known it, like I are not interested of something before WW II.
The real polluters are container ships,look into them via google.
They spew out more than all the trucks, cars and vans in the UK.
On a side note classic cars were under attack via the EU years ago,the amount of money in all the classic vehicle scenes will see older fuels still available,but the prices will be a lot higher.
I am more afraid what will happen with so much models like F88, AEC’s or 141’s, the youth go for younger models as the F16 even already FH.
I think lot’s will be scraped after us, pitty for men who have done so much work on it, but’s live.
You can’t compare the UK with Belgium or the Netherlands, but the youth don’t looks any more here to very old staff from the '50 '60’s and even the '70’s. And understand it, they have never known it, like I are not interested of something before WW II.
Eric,
A lot of truth in that I suspect, have seen it with agric tractors and I think you can see it with pre 1950 cars to a certain extent.
I can concour that many ‘punters’ at shows are not interested in looking at vehicles that were made before their living memory, they just cannot relate to them but like to see vehicles they remember their family etc owning.
