Starmer’s administration has a few interesting twists
No surprise that Rachel Reeves is in number 11, but she is the first woman in that role, also the first actual economist for 75years I think.
Patrick Vallance is Minister for Science and James Timpson for Prisons. Neither are in the Cabinet though.
Good gosh!
Will we have a Government that actually knows what it is doing?
Time will tell.
He appears to have overlooked Emily Thornberry, every cloud has it’s silver lining !!
wasnt it reeves that said the rwanda bill would cost 1.8million per head? so she is as much use at maths as the headmaster of my primary school that couldnt do fractions. However lets see if she can stimulate the economy properly rather than fill it with new houses, new cars, coffee shops, hotel rooms and other rubbish just to add to the gdp
Patrick Vallance wasnt he the advisor to boris during covid something you have said was mishandled from the start.
edit to add
you didnt mention James Timpson the head of the prison reform trust whos stated aims are to reduce imprisonment and to improve conditions for the prisoners and their families. There was me thinking that one of starmers aims on his manifesto was to crack down on crime not make it better for the ones caught.
If you’ve seen that vid doing the rounds of the very accomodating and eager to please female prison warden at Wandsworth nick,… conditions dont look that bad to me.
i hadnt heard of it but doesnt surprise me.
True, she got that wrong, if indeed she gave that amount.
It has cost far, far, more, and had zero effect.
So, you still don’t understand how GDP is calculated. And do you not want houses built? Do you think we have enough?
Yes, Vallance was an advisor during Covid.
Johnson was the one who couldn’t understand the advice, and/or didn’t take it.
Is there a correlation between severity of punishment and crime rates?
The USA worse prison regimes than the UK and a worse crime problem.
Norway has very little crime and better conditions for those “inside”.
Hard prisons do not often make inmates better suited to life outside. They tend to make offenders tougher.
only because it never got implemented other than the 5(?) the telegraph were banging on about the other day. as i showed repeatedly that to anyone with a basic understanding of how money works ie 10 pounds in your pocket is better than 5 pounds etc etc she was way way way out.
ill go by the formular published and used by the boe that i posted several times before.
enough what? i assume you mean houses. in a word yes. because a resource is miss managed doesn’t mean that you need more of it.
if (big if) its true that boris couldnt understand the advice from the advisor that is the advisors fault. it is down to the advisor to make sure the information is presented in a way that can be understood. i susspect what happened was he advised boris as boris acted then when the ■■■■ hit the fan changed his story with a bit of here mate you stitch boris up and we will see you right.
the usa has a much larger population than the uk it also has different laws for example jay walking. however if you look at it properly only a few crimes are worse than ours and that is down to gun laws etc. if you lock someone up for life and i mean life they cant kill innocent again.
norway also makes the inmates take responsibility for their actions and forces them to take rehabilitation classes etc, also obviously the ones in jail are the ones that get caught.
how many one handed arabs have you seen.
Our prisons (which are not as many people think, “holiday camps”) are very full, there’s only capacity for about 1,500 more inmates across the whole country. Timpson has experience with prisons, he know that not everyone locked up actually needs to be in custody to stop them re-offending, he also know some deserve to be nowhere else than in prison. I’ve heard what he has to say for himself and he sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
Being “tough on crime” means preventing offending and re-offending, there’s a heck of a lot more to it than just building more and more jails and putting more and more people behind bars, as this just costs more and more money (£33,628 per prisoner).
Joe Public rarely has a clue about the justice system, and when they voice opinions its usually from a twisted medieval mentality POV. Anyone one of us on these boards could easily, via a simple turn of fate, find themselves on the wrong side of the justice system. HGV drivers go to jail with surprising frequency for making errors at work .
and how much of the 33,628 is spent on fines for opening mail and the use of razor wire etc. how much is spent on frivolous degrees or televisions and facilities that the inmates just smash up?
ill give you a life example. i know of a bail and probation hostel. Back in 97 when someone i knew lived in this hostel there were 3 doors that were alarmed because 24/7 if the people assigned to the rooms werent in them they had to be checked on every 30 min because they were too much of a danger to society to go out on their own. if they needed to go into town for something they had to be escorted by two specially trained members of staff. They were paid 1500 pounds a week in compensation because they had their human rights violated. Incidently judging by your post on another thread i think you mentioned something about dealing with them with a rusty razor blade.
i agree anyone of us could make a mistake and kill x number of people in one little moment. However, I am willing to bet that 99.9% of us didnt do it deliberately and would never intend on doing it again. should that mean we arent punished no. should that mean that we live in relative comfort while others that havent broken the law struggle and wonder where their next meal is coming from?
im sure as a child you were sent to bed with no supper. im also fairly sure as a father you wouldnt punish your child by sending them to their room to watch tv or read or play on their phone/computer or to do any other thing they would normally have the freedom to choose to do.
It was all over the news, that was when I realised it wasnt fake as I first thought.
She was filmed by one prisoner (phone in nick btw 
) while having ■■■ with another, and another one commentating.
In her po uniform, …with her PO no clearly visible…along with other things.
She got arrested and obviously lost her job.
I know they are known as ‘screws’ btw, but that went a bit far.
Jeez even the word s. ex is censored.
What are we ffs?..5 years old?
Anyway back to your serious high brow conversation…I’ll leave you to it in.case I fall asleep.
Just to but in for a minute, and address a couple of points…
Frangers’ views on prison conditions? …typical out of touch socialist attitude.
I’m talking serious h4rd kore faces (more ridiculous censorship on here btw) serious types here btw, not somebody who has fiddled his VAT.
Firstly I could not gaf how they are treated, in the unlikely event of them being treated harshly, bring it on as far as I care.
As for them not being re.habilitated?
Again so what ?..as long as they are kept locked up off the streets away from my family.
As for prison ‘making offenders tougher’
I dont know how much actual first hand experience of hard cases in leafy suburbia you have had Frangers, but in my old line of work (legal btw) I have had confrontations with at least one or two, and more than once bitten off more than I could chew, dont mind admitting it.
They dont need a bit more of ‘doing time’ to make them tougher…some of them are beyond rehabilitation.
So forget your flower arranging courses and counselling sessions…they wont work.
Hard prison time for hardened criminals, I won’t argue with.
Hard and harsh treatment for all ? No.
So where is your cut off point after…say murderers.
Thieves? Arsonists? Terrorists?
All of the above deserve a hard time imo.
Many criminals are habitual, a way of life, and as I said beyond rehabiltation.
Some in jail are just normal people, down on their luck because of a misdemeanour, so no need for rehabilitation as such.
You can hit me with all the links,.stats and all the rest (as you no doubt will) , but if you are facing a regime where you know you are going to get a hard time, a rough ride, that aint too pleasant, there is an element of deterrent.
If you are going to get a comfortable room akin to a bed sit with basic comforts, and 3 meals a day…not so much.
Aka human nature.
not sure if that was a response to my comment about rehabilitation or to franglais. in case it was to me my comment was about the difference between norway and here and the premise that softer regime is better for reducing re-offending rates than our approach.
personaly i would be more intimidated for want of a better word by the wanna be gangsters of today than proper old school faces.
Because the Krays and Richardsons were nice “Robin Hood” lads who helped old ladies across the road and sometimes slapped a copper across the face?
If they are in jail and not on community service or whatever, then they probably do need help.
Start with the assumption that all need help and rehabilitation.
Where the line is drawn is the same as asking about the relative dimensions of fibres, woven and twisted to produce a flexible item useful for tying up bundles of things.
Nah it was Frangers I was referring to.
We have had this discussion before about prisoners,.and how they should be treated.
My view for the scumbag contingent crew, they should be sent for punishment, and given a hard time inside to make them think again.
They are always going to come back whatever, …and unfortunately we can not get away with secretly ‘despatching’ the upper echelons of scumbag…the likes of terrorists and kiddy fiddlers, even career thieves, so make the **** s suffer rather than mollycoddle them…
But hey a hardline like that is considered out of the question,.and a bit too ‘right wing’ for the tastes of today’s far too tolerant society.
From what I can gather, Frangers prefers the lefty liberal method of embracing them, putting an arm around them to discuss their futures, and forming a circle with a sing song, to council them… whilst providing refreshments.
Yep…thats gonna work innit, you can hear the modern out of control young self perceived ‘gangsta boy’ shaking in his shoes.
‘quote Franglais’…‘‘The Krays and the Richardsons’’.
I have read many books about the Krays, they were absolute (you choose) of whom you would never want to cross on any level.
They were far from ‘Nice RH lads’, but on the other hand the streets around E.London were not ‘safe’, but a lot safer than today…
They acted as a (succesful) vigilante force, if somebody stepped out of line on ‘their Manor’ as they called it, they were sorted pdq.
Unlike today where that sh.hole is like all major cities, full of lawless free range gangs carrying knives and guns fearless of the Police and their soft approach.
The only types the Krays dealt with, or even killed were fellow criminals, not ‘normal people’ unless they hsd involvements of course.
From what I have read from sources who were actually there, normal people felt much safer than today…through fear of them.
I know you will be clutching your whatsanames Frangers at this concept, but I can see little wrong with that tbh.
It aint conventional nor liberal minded Mary Poppins world either…but it seemed to work.
that is exactly my point. they didnt stand for any crap if you wronged them you knew about it. however if you were being wronged it would be sorted you showed them respect they showed you respect. you did them a favor they helped you. so called gangsters of today just pray on the weak and think they are better than everyone else.
I personally would have gone nowhere near them from what I have read, not got involved …and especially not doing them any favours, stay anonymous if you will.
The scum on the streets today, who think they live in the Bronx,.and talk in their own ridiculous pseudo West Indian dialect, (which annoys the hell out of me btw) instead of their natural regional accents…calling everybody ‘bro’ types, who are armed to the teeth dealing in hard drugs, should be sorted by some special armed Police task force,.and cleaned off our streeets.
But yet again the ruling mamby pamby crew want to ‘rehabilitate’ them inside to become plumbers and joiners…aye good luck with that one.
The pub i used to drink in as a youngster if someone came in and hugged the landlord you made sure you left them alone unless they spoke to you, However one night there was a party/lock in as the landlords misses was having a baby those that organized it made sure everyone got home safe and waited till the bar staff left and saw them into cabs /walked them home.
another time there were some teenagers causing issues a quiet word was had in their ear it stopped.